Should The Rich Be Required To Pay Higher Taxes In the US?

[Fang]

The rich should have to pay the same percentage as everyone else. This means they are paying more money than the rest of us.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Sadly, this is about as clear as it's going to get. I've been down that road.

Yes, that member's unwillingness to make unambiguous remarks is plain to me as well.

What is there to say? I tried, as you can see, to encourage him to be clear. He responded to my request by merely removing part of his earlier comment, so I replied to what he said only to see him respond, in essence, that Trump's advocacy for lower tax rates is the conflict of interest. For as vehemently as I detest Trump and his being President, even I can't and won't go that far. More to the point here, however, the heart of his response is still unclear to me; I have no idea what it means.

Does our Commander in Chief believe we should lower taxes during any alleged need for the exigencies, he alleges to believe are necessary and proper and executed via executive order, for any alleged exigency of "national security" and the necessity and propriety of national security Tax Rates, now?

I have no idea what that means, but I don't care to work that hard to make sense of one sentence that is complemented by nothing other than an even more ambiguously phrased question, one that he reiterated and that I explained why I wouldn't answer it. What is one to do? Taxation discussions between strangers aren't well suited to soundbite-style discussions.

 

[Chuz Life]

The rich should have to pay the same percentage as everyone else. This means they are paying more money than the rest of us.

I ask this as sincerely as I can. . .

Why is a tax "rate" considered to be "fair?"

Just because someone earns more, they should have to pay more? That doesn't seem fair to me, at all.

If a billionaire is in line with you at the grocery store. . . Would you expect them to pay more to their gallon of milk than you pay for yours?

Why should their tax burden be treated any differently?

This is why I favor taxes that are more based on usage and consumption.

Sent from my SM-N920V using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

 

[jc456]

wealthy people do pay the majority of taxes despite the left claiming otherwise.

Who on the left that matters has made that claim?

It's been said by many that they aren't paying their fair share. If they already pay the majority of taxes then what exactly is considered a fair share?

I don't think I can give you an empirical answer to what constitutes a "fair share" by income bracket regardless of who pays more or less taxes.

then what exactly are you arguing?

 

[jc456]

wealthy people do pay the majority of taxes despite the left claiming otherwise.

Who on the left that matters has made that claim?

It's been said by many that they aren't paying their fair share. If they already pay the majority of taxes then what exactly is considered a fair share?

what is the fair share of money you spend on survival. If taxes dip into that than it's too much. Those who need more of their money, as a percentage, to pay the rent should pay the least. Those who can afford million dollar weddings should pay the most.

why?

 

[Fang]

The rich should have to pay the same percentage as everyone else. This means they are paying more money than the rest of us.

I ask this as sincerely as I can. . .

Why is a tax "rate" considered to be "fair?"

Just because someone earns more, they should have to pay more? That doesn't seem fair to me, at all.

If a billionaire is in line with you at the grocery store. . . Would you expect them to pay more to their gallon of milk than you pay for yours?

Why should their tax burden be treated any differently?

This is why I favor taxes that are more based on usage and consumption.

Sent from my SM-N920V using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

A fair argument. I won't deny that. But it's certainly better than different tax rates based on income, although not as straight forward as tax based on usage. It seems like a compromise between two different philosophies.

 

[hadit]

Sadly, this is about as clear as it's going to get. I've been down that road.

Yes, that member's unwillingness to make unambiguous remarks is plain to me as well.

What is there to say? I tried, as you can see, to encourage him to be clear. He responded to my request by merely removing part of his earlier comment, so I replied to what he said only to see him respond, in essence, that Trump's advocacy for lower tax rates is the conflict of interest. For as vehemently as I detest Trump and his being President, even I can't and won't go that far. More to the point here, however, the heart of his response is still unclear to me; I have no idea what it means.

Does our Commander in Chief believe we should lower taxes during any alleged need for the exigencies, he alleges to believe are necessary and proper and executed via executive order, for any alleged exigency of "national security" and the necessity and propriety of national security Tax Rates, now?

I have no idea what that means, but I don't care to work that hard to make sense of one sentence that is complemented by nothing other than an even more ambiguously phrased question, one that he reiterated and that I explained why I wouldn't answer it. What is one to do? Taxation discussions between strangers aren't well suited to soundbite-style discussions.

You've already done more than most.

 

[francoHFW]

Vote Dem duh. All the GOP does is cut taxes on the rich and giant corps. And baffle dupes like you.

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The less the government does the better it is for the people

Well you must love the total bs of the last 35 years, chump. "I know, another tax cut for the rich!"

 

[jc456]

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The less the government does the better it is for the people

Well you must love the total bs of the last 35 years, chump. "I know, another tax cut for the rich!"

if you say they don't pay taxes now, then how is it they can get a tax break? I mean dude, be consistent at least.

 

[francoHFW]

Vote Dem duh. All the GOP does is cut taxes on the rich and giant corps. And baffle dupes like you.

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The greedy rich in Congress, you got that right. I am not going to defend The GOP, however I'm not going to let your rich Democratic friends off the hook. When they control Congress they did nothing to change tax laws. The Democrats held the majority in Congress and passed the tax laws that you blame Reagan for. It would never of happened without the Democratic Congress passing laws.

And the New BS pander to the rich GOP blocking everything ever since...thanks, dupes.

 

[jc456]

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The greedy rich in Congress, you got that right. I am not going to defend The GOP, however I'm not going to let your rich Democratic friends off the hook. When they control Congress they did nothing to change tax laws. The Democrats held the majority in Congress and passed the tax laws that you blame Reagan for. It would never of happened without the Democratic Congress passing laws.

And the New BS pander to the rich GOP blocking everything ever since...thanks, dupes.

not in 2009 and 2010 dude. sorry fella.

 

[Skull Pilot]

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The less the government does the better it is for the people

Well you must love the total bs of the last 35 years, chump. "I know, another tax cut for the rich!"

you don't seem to realize that every law, every bill passed, every regulation costs all of us money do you?

GRIDLOCK IS GOOD

Learn it

 

[usmbguest5318]

Sadly, this is about as clear as it's going to get. I've been down that road.

Yes, that member's unwillingness to make unambiguous remarks is plain to me as well.

What is there to say? I tried, as you can see, to encourage him to be clear. He responded to my request by merely removing part of his earlier comment, so I replied to what he said only to see him respond, in essence, that Trump's advocacy for lower tax rates is the conflict of interest. For as vehemently as I detest Trump and his being President, even I can't and won't go that far. More to the point here, however, the heart of his response is still unclear to me; I have no idea what it means.

Does our Commander in Chief believe we should lower taxes during any alleged need for the exigencies, he alleges to believe are necessary and proper and executed via executive order, for any alleged exigency of "national security" and the necessity and propriety of national security Tax Rates, now?

I have no idea what that means, but I don't care to work that hard to make sense of one sentence that is complemented by nothing other than an even more ambiguously phrased question, one that he reiterated and that I explained why I wouldn't answer it. What is one to do? Taxation discussions between strangers aren't well suited to soundbite-style discussions.

You've already done more than most.

Excuse me?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Pressure your Congressmen, they are the ones not closing up the loopholes, they are the ones subsidizing them. If you are pissed, you should be pissed at Congress. Don't blame Reagan, he didn't pass any laws, that is why you are your bullshit is laughed at.

Vote Dem duh. All the GOP does is cut taxes on the rich and giant corps. And baffle dupes like you.

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates,

Reaganist tax rates are 15% and 28%.

What's the top rate today, dupe?

 

[francoHFW]

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The less the government does the better it is for the people

Well you must love the total bs of the last 35 years, chump. "I know, another tax cut for the rich!"

you don't seem to realize that every law, every bill passed, every regulation costs all of us money do you?

GRIDLOCK IS GOOD

Learn it

Yup, everything for the greedy idiot GOP megarich is great, dupe. Ay caramba....

 

[whitehall]

Where y'all been? They do pay higher taxes.

 

[francoHFW]

Vote Dem duh. All the GOP does is cut taxes on the rich and giant corps. And baffle dupes like you.

When Dems have held Congress they have failed to close loopholes and corporate welfare. They have no interest in biting the hands that feeds them. That goes for all of Congress, your partisan blinders are disgusting, bigoted and hateful.

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates,

Reaganist tax rates are 15% and 28%.

What's the top rate today, dupe?

Still way too low and still Reaganist. And still full of loopholes and about to go back down again... what is it- I believe 37% and 44% over 450K supposedly, BUT ACTUALLY, effective more like 17%...Just great for slow ruin of the nonrich and the country. "I know, a giant tax cut for the rich!"

 

[francoHFW]

Where y'all been? They do pay higher taxes.

No they don't, dupe. You're told a million times how much Fed income taxes are for them and 47% pay no taxes. Total bs.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj9hIX02qTSAhVs1oMKHUC-DecQFghPMAs&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=qTKEujlnfDsw-iFm-etaYg
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj9hIX02qTSAhVs1oMKHUC-DecQFghPMAs&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=qTKEujlnfDsw-iFm-etaYg
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

That's really what the American tax system looks like: Not 47 percent paying nothing, but everybody paying something, and most Americans paying between 25 percent and 30 percent of their income -- which is, by the way, a lot more the 13.9 percent Mitt Romney paid in 2011*.

 

[hadit]

Sadly, this is about as clear as it's going to get. I've been down that road.

Yes, that member's unwillingness to make unambiguous remarks is plain to me as well.

What is there to say? I tried, as you can see, to encourage him to be clear. He responded to my request by merely removing part of his earlier comment, so I replied to what he said only to see him respond, in essence, that Trump's advocacy for lower tax rates is the conflict of interest. For as vehemently as I detest Trump and his being President, even I can't and won't go that far. More to the point here, however, the heart of his response is still unclear to me; I have no idea what it means.

Does our Commander in Chief believe we should lower taxes during any alleged need for the exigencies, he alleges to believe are necessary and proper and executed via executive order, for any alleged exigency of "national security" and the necessity and propriety of national security Tax Rates, now?

I have no idea what that means, but I don't care to work that hard to make sense of one sentence that is complemented by nothing other than an even more ambiguously phrased question, one that he reiterated and that I explained why I wouldn't answer it. What is one to do? Taxation discussions between strangers aren't well suited to soundbite-style discussions.

You've already done more than most.

Excuse me?

You engaged the member more politely and gave more opportunity for substantive response than a lot would have.

 

[francoHFW]

Blocked by the New BS GOP under Clinton AND Obama...O couldn't do that DURING a meltdown when he HAD power- for a month.

Excuses, excuses. It's funny how the GOP gets everything they want passed and the Democrats are blocked all the time. Sounds like the Democrats are pretty pathetic lawmakers. Your BS is off the charts. The more you simple minded people play partisan politics the better of the rich and Congress are. Dupe!

The GOP only wants to defend Reaganist tax rates, keep deregulation and block progress, genius. They never pass ANYTHING, dupe. The greedy idiot rich love things as is...

The greedy rich in Congress, you got that right. I am not going to defend The GOP, however I'm not going to let your rich Democratic friends off the hook. When they control Congress they did nothing to change tax laws. The Democrats held the majority in Congress and passed the tax laws that you blame Reagan for. It would never of happened without the Democratic Congress passing laws.

And the New BS pander to the rich GOP blocking everything ever since...thanks, dupes.

not in 2009 and 2010 dude. sorry fella.

BS. There were 200+ GOP filibusters in 2009-10. Two nice GOP ladies voted for the stimulus and got squashed for it, and the Dems had like 24 days with 60 votes in the Senate and barely passed ACA. Period, dupe.