Should the president invoke the 14th Amendment?

[Luddly Neddite]

Now that we ALL know that the debt ceiling is

• a manufactured crisis
• NOT a request to spend more
• an order TO the president FROM the congress to pay the bills the congress has incurred

We also know that the republicans

• want to collapse the US economy
• want to "shut down" the US government
• want to cause another credit downgrade

Today, President Obama said he would not invoke the 14th Amendment even though some on either side of the aisle are urging him to do so. Instead, he said he would wait for congress to do their job which sounded more like he was saying, let the R hang themselves.

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment? or should he let the R crash our economy as well as harm the world economy?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama manufactured the "crisis" by being a petulant dickwad

Jerry Brown is a better leader

 

[SniperFire]

Now that we ALL know that the debt ceiling is

• a manufactured crisis
• NOT a request to spend more
• an order TO the president FROM the congress to pay the bills the congress has incurred

We also know that the republicans

• want to collapse the US economy
• want to "shut down" the US government
• want to cause another credit downgrade

Today, President Obama said he would not invoke the 14th Amendment even though some on either side of the aisle are urging him to do so. Instead, he said he would wait for congress to do their job which sounded more like he was saying, let the R hang themselves.

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment? or should he let the R crash our economy as well as harm the world economy?

Debt Ceiling has been negotiated many times.

Even Owebama knows your thread is FAIL.


LOL

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Never mind. As usual, scared little rw's can't discuss. They can only troll with their silly name calling and total ignorance about the issue.

Or, did either of you plan to post a link to prove your position?

No, of course not.

 

[Avatar4321]

Are you seriously so uneducated that you think the 14th amendment has anything to do with this?

We are talking about taking more debt. Not paying current ones. No one has a problem with the government paying current debts. You see, when normal people have debts to pay off, they dont borrow more money. They cut back spending and make adjustments to their budgets (I know a budget, what a radical concept)

 

[SniperFire]

Never mind. As usual, scared little rw's can't discuss. They can only troll with their silly name calling and total ignorance about the issue.

Or, did either of you plan to post a link to prove your position?

No, of course not.

In high school, you were the kid who always had the 'KICK ME' sign stuck on his back, weren't you?


LOL

 

[Missourian]

Never mind. As usual, scared little rw's can't discuss. They can only troll with their silly name calling and total ignorance about the issue.

...says luddly.neddite, the unmitigated king of name calling and total ignorance of issues.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Are you seriously so uneducated that you think the 14th amendment has anything to do with this?

We are talking about taking more debt. Not paying current ones. No one has a problem with the government paying current debts. You see, when normal people have debts to pay off, they dont borrow more money. They cut back spending and make adjustments to their budgets (I know a budget, what a radical concept)

You are wrong.

I really didn't know that rw's STILL don't know what the debt ceiling is.

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations ... The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.

Debt Limit

You really need to read Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

“... the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned ...”

There are very real risks to using the 14th amendment -

The 14th Amendment is Obama's Best Option on Debt Ceiling - Bloomberg

The Constitutional Option: If 14th amendment were used to bypass debt ceiling, would anyone buy US debt? | AEIdeas

The Debt Ceiling And The 14th Amendment

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Quickest way to get rid of rw's -

Post FACTS.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Should the president invoke the 14th Amendment?

That the question is considered at all indicates the sad state of affairs we’ve come to as a consequence of the TPM and radical fiscal right.

 

[Sallow]

Now that we ALL know that the debt ceiling is

• a manufactured crisis
• NOT a request to spend more
• an order TO the president FROM the congress to pay the bills the congress has incurred

We also know that the republicans

• want to collapse the US economy
• want to "shut down" the US government
• want to cause another credit downgrade

Today, President Obama said he would not invoke the 14th Amendment even though some on either side of the aisle are urging him to do so. Instead, he said he would wait for congress to do their job which sounded more like he was saying, let the R hang themselves.

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment? or should he let the R crash our economy as well as harm the world economy?

I liked the trillion dollar coin idea..but it seems they don't want to do that either.

Not sure how this is going to play out..but it's pretty interesting.

 

[SniperFire]

Should the president invoke the 14th Amendment?

That the question is considered at all indicates the sad state of affairs we’ve come to as a consequence of the TPM and radical fiscal right.

Because Obama has decided to be a never-negotiate-again fascist?

LOL

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Are you seriously so uneducated that you think the 14th amendment has anything to do with this?

We are talking about taking more debt. Not paying current ones. No one has a problem with the government paying current debts. You see, when normal people have debts to pay off, they dont borrow more money. They cut back spending and make adjustments to their budgets (I know a budget, what a radical concept)

You are wrong.

I really didn't know that rw's STILL don't know what the debt ceiling is.

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations ... The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.

Debt Limit

You really need to read Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

“... the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned ...”

There are very real risks to using the 14th amendment -

The 14th Amendment is Obama's Best Option on Debt Ceiling - Bloomberg

The Constitutional Option: If 14th amendment were used to bypass debt ceiling, would anyone buy US debt? | AEIdeas

The Debt Ceiling And The 14th Amendment

Current revenue is more than enough to pay all incurred debt. Actually the only way the 14th applies is if Obama tries to quit paying retirees both military and Social Security. Moron.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment?

Yes. Make the discussion about the Constitution.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Are you seriously so uneducated that you think the 14th amendment has anything to do with this?

We are talking about taking more debt. Not paying current ones. No one has a problem with the government paying current debts. You see, when normal people have debts to pay off, they dont borrow more money. They cut back spending and make adjustments to their budgets (I know a budget, what a radical concept)

You are wrong.

I really didn't know that rw's STILL don't know what the debt ceiling is.


Debt Limit

You really need to read Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

“... the validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned ...”

There are very real risks to using the 14th amendment -

The 14th Amendment is Obama's Best Option on Debt Ceiling - Bloomberg

The Constitutional Option: If 14th amendment were used to bypass debt ceiling, would anyone buy US debt? | AEIdeas

The Debt Ceiling And The 14th Amendment

Current revenue is more than enough to pay all incurred debt. Link please. Actually the only way the 14th applies is if Obama tries to quit paying retirees both military and Social Security. Sorry, I forgot that wild eyed screaming rw's are the final word on all things constitutional. Stay by your phone cuz I'm just sure the SCOTUS will be calling you for advice very soon.Moron.

.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are wrong.

I really didn't know that rw's STILL don't know what the debt ceiling is.


Debt Limit

You really need to read Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.



There are very real risks to using the 14th amendment -

The 14th Amendment is Obama's Best Option on Debt Ceiling - Bloomberg

The Constitutional Option: If 14th amendment were used to bypass debt ceiling, would anyone buy US debt? | AEIdeas

The Debt Ceiling And The 14th Amendment

Current revenue is more than enough to pay all incurred debt. Link please. Actually the only way the 14th applies is if Obama tries to quit paying retirees both military and Social Security. Sorry, I forgot that wild eyed screaming rw's are the final word on all things constitutional. Stay by your phone cuz I'm just sure the SCOTUS will be calling you for advice very soon.Moron.

.

The 14th states the DEBT has to be paid. Current revenue is more then enough to pay DEBT. Running Government offices and programs except retired pay and Social Security are NOT Debt. Moron.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Now that we ALL know that the debt ceiling is

• a manufactured crisis
• NOT a request to spend more
• an order TO the president FROM the congress to pay the bills the congress has incurred

We also know that the republicans

• want to collapse the US economy
• want to "shut down" the US government
• want to cause another credit downgrade

Today, President Obama said he would not invoke the 14th Amendment even though some on either side of the aisle are urging him to do so. Instead, he said he would wait for congress to do their job which sounded more like he was saying, let the R hang themselves.

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment? or should he let the R crash our economy as well as harm the world economy?

Obama has stated categorically that the debt ceiling is not up for negotiation. He is essentially saying " I am the president of the United States God Dammit. I have powers you cannot even comprehend! And I will get what I want, do what I want and if you do not cooperate with me, I will use "the full weight of my office to get what I want"...
BTW, the 14th Amendment thing is crap. The President cannot legally do what Nancy Pelosi suggested.
Spending policy and procedure is explained in Article I Section 7 of the US Constitution.
Article I | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.
I have no clue what Pelosi or Obama are thinking.
In Amendment XIV Section 4 there is the issue of "Validity of debt and that said validity "shall not be questioned".
How Obama makes the leap from that to " I will unilaterally increase the debt ceiling" is a fucking mystery.
Obama has no respect for the law, Has no respect for the US Constitution. In fact he views the Constitution as a roadblock to his agenda.
I think Obama is the type pf person who asks not whether something is legal or ethical. He asks whether or not he can get away with doing it, either legally ethically and above all, politically.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The 14th says all DEBT must be paid. Running the Government is not debt. It falls under Article I the Legislature. Further raising the debt ceiling also falls under Article I.

The 14th specifically states that all debt must be paid. That means that Obama can not threaten to cut of Social Security or retirement pay as they are Government debt. The 14th specifically talks about such debt.

So for the slow and stupid. Obama can not raise the debt level. And failure to do so does not endanger our debt payments. If the ceiling is not raised the Government will have to cut PROGRAMS that do not deal with debt.

Once again Government cost to RUN the Government is NOT DEBT. It is expenditures authorized by Congress. The 14th protects Social Security since the Government spent that money and issued Government bonds to cover what is owed ( as in debt). Further the 14th prevents the Government from not paying all Government retirees, it is specifically mentioned in the 14th.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Now that we ALL know that the debt ceiling is

• a manufactured crisis
• NOT a request to spend more
• an order TO the president FROM the congress to pay the bills the congress has incurred

We also know that the republicans

• want to collapse the US economy
• want to "shut down" the US government
• want to cause another credit downgrade

Today, President Obama said he would not invoke the 14th Amendment even though some on either side of the aisle are urging him to do so. Instead, he said he would wait for congress to do their job which sounded more like he was saying, let the R hang themselves.

Should he abide by the Constitution and invoke the 14th Amendment? or should he let the R crash our economy as well as harm the world economy?

Obama has stated categorically that the debt ceiling is not up for negotiation. He is essentially saying " I am the president of the United States God Dammit. I have powers you cannot even comprehend! And I will get what I want, do what I want and if you do not cooperate with me, I will use "the full weight of my office to get what I want"...
BTW, the 14th Amendment thing is crap. The President cannot legally do what Nancy Pelosi suggested.
Spending policy and procedure is explained in Article I Section 7 of the US Constitution.
Article I | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.
I have no clue what Pelosi or Obama are thinking.
In Amendment XIV Section 4 there is the issue of "Validity of debt and that said validity "shall not be questioned".
How Obama makes the leap from that to " I will unilaterally increase the debt ceiling" is a fucking mystery.Actually that's the OPPOSITE of what he has said.

And YOU have said you have no idea what he's thinking.
Obama has no respect for the law, Has no respect for the US Constitution. In fact he views the Constitution as a roadblock to his agenda.Post proof.
I think Obama is the type pf person who asks not whether something is legal or ethical. He asks whether or not he can get away with doing it, either legally ethically and above all, politically.

You rw Obama-haters keep saying crap like this but you cannot prove its true because it is not true.

If you disagree with me, post PROOF.

 

[Oddball]

If Oboingo tried this stupid tactic, he would be in direct violation of the 14th Amenment, along with article 2.

The 14th Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.