Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?

[Jarlaxle]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

Apple should have simply unlocked the phone, as they have scores of times before for law enforcement.

The court order is based on evidence that the phone might contain relevant information with regard to the FBI's investigation, that no rights are being violated or jeopardized, and that the search is consistent with 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence.

Consequently, Apple isn't being forced to help with the investigation, instead they're hindering it, contrary to a lawful court order, where to comply would in no way adversely effect Apple or the users of their phones.

How is Apple hindering anything?

The Feds have the phone, they can do what they want with it. It's like searching a house and insisting that the builder of the house help you search it

They're not complying with the court order.

And Apple isn't conducting the search, the FBI is.

It's no different than a bank opening a safe deposit box of a criminal suspect pursuant to a court order, where the bank alone has the key or combination to the box.

One more time for the slow kid: Apple DOES NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO UNLOCK THE FUCKING PHONE! The DOJ is demanding that they create a way to do so!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Apple should just say we tried to create a back door but couldn't do it, our encryption method is just too good. Courts can't do anything then and neither could the FBI.

Or try to hack it...and "inadvertently" trigger a full wipe. WHOOPS!

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

1. The owner of the phone is dead. No one's liberties are being violated.

Actually, the owner of the phone is their EMPLOYER.

2. The phone possibly contains information and evidence vital to National security and identifying other participants.

Unsupported speculation.

3. Apple's refusal to cooperate is obstruction of justice. The DOJ asking for access to to the phone is no different than asking for access to a residence.

Idiotic statement. The DOJ is not asking for access. The DOJ is demanding that Apple create something that does not exist and may not be possible to create, destroying their own business in the process.

The former owner of the phone is pushing up dasies.

Actually, the owner of the phone in question is the county for which the dead terrorist worked.

In that case, no warrant is necessary.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Unfortunately, the stumblefucks changed the pass code...and fucking LOST the new one. Yes, the DOJ is demanding that Apple fix their OWN fuck-up!

 

[jon_berzerk]

1. The owner of the phone is dead. No one's liberties are being violated.

Actually, the owner of the phone is their EMPLOYER.

2. The phone possibly contains information and evidence vital to National security and identifying other participants.

Unsupported speculation.

3. Apple's refusal to cooperate is obstruction of justice. The DOJ asking for access to to the phone is no different than asking for access to a residence.

Idiotic statement. The DOJ is not asking for access. The DOJ is demanding that Apple create something that does not exist and may not be possible to create, destroying their own business in the process.

The former owner of the phone is pushing up dasies.

that is incorrect

the county he works for owns the phone

go ahead read the motion to vacate by apple

get this

while the phone was in fbi custody

an employee of the county the IT guy

placed a pass code on the phone

then the fbi forgot what the pass code was

--LOL

 

[Fang]

YES without a doubt. I may agree with Apple on a lot of this. But the law is the law. You and I could not ignore a court order, neither can any company no matter how big.

we certainly can ignore the law

if it the was the law that you had to smear dog poop on your face would you do it

it is absurd i know

but the law is the law after all

what if the government said you had to

make artillery shells for the army or you would go to jail

would you do it

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Unfortunately, the stumblefucks changed the pass code...and fucking LOST the new one. Yes, the DOJ is demanding that Apple fix their OWN fuck-up!

exactly

 

[jon_berzerk]

YES without a doubt. I may agree with Apple on a lot of this. But the law is the law. You and I could not ignore a court order, neither can any company no matter how big.

we certainly can ignore the law

if it the was the law that you had to smear dog poop on your face would you do it

it is absurd i know

but the law is the law after all

what if the government said you had to

make artillery shells for the army or you would go to jail

would you do it

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

because the are being forced into service against their will

they are being asked to make something that does not exist

apple says in its motion it would take at least 6 engineers and another lab to do it

what crime has apple committed that it can be forced into labor as a punishment

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

Apple should have simply unlocked the phone, as they have scores of times before for law enforcement.

The court order is based on evidence that the phone might contain relevant information with regard to the FBI's investigation, that no rights are being violated or jeopardized, and that the search is consistent with 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence.

Consequently, Apple isn't being forced to help with the investigation, instead they're hindering it, contrary to a lawful court order, where to comply would in no way adversely effect Apple or the users of their phones.

How is Apple hindering anything?

The Feds have the phone, they can do what they want with it. It's like searching a house and insisting that the builder of the house help you search it

They're not complying with the court order.

And Apple isn't conducting the search, the FBI is.

It's no different than a bank opening a safe deposit box of a criminal suspect pursuant to a court order, where the bank alone has the key or combination to the box.

One more time for the slow kid: Apple DOES NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO UNLOCK THE FUCKING PHONE! The DOJ is demanding that they create a way to do so!

The DOJ is demanding that they create a way to do so!

actually it is worse then that

the doj is demanding apple to create software that disables the delay feature

so the information on the phone will not be erased after 10 wrong pass code sequences

secondarily the doj demands that apple make software that allows the phone to receive electronically delivered pass codes by the fbi

through a method called brute force

basically they want to be able to run pass code combinations one after another at the speed of electricity through the phone

up to a million tries if a two layered pass codes a billion tries or until it unlocks

 

[Fang]

YES without a doubt. I may agree with Apple on a lot of this. But the law is the law. You and I could not ignore a court order, neither can any company no matter how big.

we certainly can ignore the law

if it the was the law that you had to smear dog poop on your face would you do it

it is absurd i know

but the law is the law after all

what if the government said you had to

make artillery shells for the army or you would go to jail

would you do it

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

because the are being forced into service against their will

they are being asked to make something that does not exist

apple says in its motion it would take at least 6 engineers and another lab to do it

what crime has apple committed that it can be forced into labor as a punishment

How many people do you personally where the government made them do something against their will (aside from paying taxes, obeying the speed limit, etc)? I don't know of anyone personally. I've never read about it in the news either.
..
With that said, if information on that phone could save lives would you still be against it?

For the record, I think Apple is full of shit. Nobody writes security software and has no clue how to break it. I think they could get into any iPhone pretty quickly. Are you going to tell me if Tim Cook lost his password his engineers would tell him he's shit out of luck? Please...

 

[jon_berzerk]

"Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?"

This exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Apple is subject to a lawful court order to unlock the phone, the company has been afforded full and comprehensive due process and must now comply with that lawful court order; Apple's 'argument' not to comply is devoid of merit.

The government is within its rights to unlock the phone

Can Apple be forced to do it for them? It is no longer Apples phone, it belonged to the terrorists. Can the police force you to participate in an investigation?

it was actually his employers phone the county he worked for

they got all the information off of his private phone

Actually, I recall that they DESTROYED their private phones.

maybe i will have to check

 

[jon_berzerk]

we certainly can ignore the law

if it the was the law that you had to smear dog poop on your face would you do it

it is absurd i know

but the law is the law after all

what if the government said you had to

make artillery shells for the army or you would go to jail

would you do it

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

because the are being forced into service against their will

they are being asked to make something that does not exist

apple says in its motion it would take at least 6 engineers and another lab to do it

what crime has apple committed that it can be forced into labor as a punishment

How many people do you personally where the government made them do something against their will (aside from paying taxes, obeying the speed limit, etc)? I don't know of anyone personally. I've never read about it in the news either.
..
With that said, if information on that phone could save lives would you still be against it?

For the record, I think Apple is full of shit. Nobody writes security software and has no clue how to break it. I think they could get into any iPhone pretty quickly. Are you going to tell me if Tim Cook lost his password his engineers would tell him he's shit out of luck? Please...

How many people do you personally where the government made them do something against their will (aside from paying taxes, obeying the speed limit, etc)? I don't know of anyone personally. I've never read about it in the news either.


that is because of the 13th amendment duh

now the government is demanding apple do so

you cool with that

btw what information do you have that supports apple is lying

 

[jon_berzerk]

 

[rightwinger]

we certainly can ignore the law

if it the was the law that you had to smear dog poop on your face would you do it

it is absurd i know

but the law is the law after all

what if the government said you had to

make artillery shells for the army or you would go to jail

would you do it

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

because the are being forced into service against their will

they are being asked to make something that does not exist

apple says in its motion it would take at least 6 engineers and another lab to do it

what crime has apple committed that it can be forced into labor as a punishment

How many people do you personally where the government made them do something against their will (aside from paying taxes, obeying the speed limit, etc)? I don't know of anyone personally. I've never read about it in the news either.
..
With that said, if information on that phone could save lives would you still be against it?

For the record, I think Apple is full of shit. Nobody writes security software and has no clue how to break it. I think they could get into any iPhone pretty quickly. Are you going to tell me if Tim Cook lost his password his engineers would tell him he's shit out of luck? Please...

The government has drafted millions of Americans into slavery...... I mean military service against their will

 

[jon_berzerk]

So your debate tactic is to hypothesize about completely absurd examples (that you admit to) and ask me if I'd follow the law? It's clear you've lost the debate.

there is nothing absurd about involuntary servitude

which clearly you are clueless about

involuntary servitude? Uh OK. This is getting good. I shouldn't do this but I can't resist. HOW is requiring Apple to comply with a court order involuntary servitude?

because the are being forced into service against their will

they are being asked to make something that does not exist

apple says in its motion it would take at least 6 engineers and another lab to do it

what crime has apple committed that it can be forced into labor as a punishment

How many people do you personally where the government made them do something against their will (aside from paying taxes, obeying the speed limit, etc)? I don't know of anyone personally. I've never read about it in the news either.
..
With that said, if information on that phone could save lives would you still be against it?

For the record, I think Apple is full of shit. Nobody writes security software and has no clue how to break it. I think they could get into any iPhone pretty quickly. Are you going to tell me if Tim Cook lost his password his engineers would tell him he's shit out of luck? Please...

The government has drafted millions of Americans into slavery...... I mean military service against their will

shut up apple wasnt drafted you nitwit

 

[jon_berzerk]

you going to go off in the weeds again tonight --LOL