Should tax policy be “fair”?

[bripat9643]

It doesn't matter whether it's income or the color of their skin, it's still discrimination.

What if the government placed a tax on people who couldn't speak English? All you leftist turds would be howling about that, wouldn't you? Yet, to avoid it, all you have to do is learn English. How is that any different in nature than a graduated income tax?

Because thats basing a tax on something arbitrary. What I'm talking about is basing tax solely on dollars earned. [/QUOTE]

I find your belief that the ability to speak English is "arbitrary" utterly amusing. How is income any less arbitrary? A lot of people would agree that speaking English is an important requirement to be a functioning citizen. A lot of arguments could be made for placing a tax on people who don't speak the language. In Muslim countries, they tax people who aren't Muslim. What makes taxing based on income non "arbitrary" aside from the envy of cretins who don't know what's good for them?

Holy fuck you're an idiot. Serious question, whats the highest level of education you completed? And what do you do for a living?

I'm tearing your arguments to pieces, so you engage in personal attacks? Isn't that what you claim to despise?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Everything in life should be unfair, so someday when you're an old fuck you can bore your grandchildren to death droning on and on about how tough you had it when you were a kid.

 

[bripat9643]

Your problem is... you seem to think that they don't deserve a decent life in this country because they may not have the brains to get educated or the business savvy to run their own.

They deserve whatever they can acquire through voluntary transaction with their fellow citizens. What they don't deserve is a piece of my hide simply because they are losers who are too lazy or stupid to get a decent education and a decent occupation. Almost anyone who works hard can earn a reasonable wage within a matter of a few years. You have to be criminally lazy or congenitally stupid not to make it in this country - like the woman who has 15 children and says "someone has to be held accountable."

Do you think anyone experiences the slightest obligation to pay her bills?

 

[RDD_1210]

It doesn't matter whether it's income or the color of their skin, it's still discrimination.

What if the government placed a tax on people who couldn't speak English? All you leftist turds would be howling about that, wouldn't you? Yet, to avoid it, all you have to do is learn English. How is that any different in nature than a graduated income tax?

Because thats basing a tax on something arbitrary. What I'm talking about is basing tax solely on dollars earned.

I find your belief that the ability to speak English is "arbitrary" utterly amusing. How is income any less arbitrary? A lot of people would agree that speaking English is an important requirement to be a functioning citizen. A lot of arguments could be made for placing a tax on people who don't speak the language. In Muslim countries, they tax people who aren't Muslim. What makes taxing based on income non "arbitrary" aside from the envy of cretins who don't know what's good for them?

Holy fuck you're an idiot. Serious question, whats the highest level of education you completed? And what do you do for a living?

I'm tearing your arguments to pieces, so you engage in personal attacks? Isn't that what you claim to despise?

LOL. Yeah you're tearing my argument to pieces. A fellow conservative even tried to explain this to you and asked why you can't grasp this.

I ask about your schooling and job because I need to know if I'm actually dealing with someone who has the capability enough to use his brain to hold a job or achieve some sort of degree. I have serious doubts at this point.

 

[bripat9643]

LOL. Yeah you're tearing my argument to pieces. A fellow conservative even tried to explain this to you and asked why you can't grasp this.

Not every conservative has a firm grasp on every issue. Conservatives in this forum post all kinds of stuff that is just plain wrong. That's because they were all educated by communist indoctrinators. They mistakenly believe some of the swill they were spoon-fed in government schools.

I ask about your schooling and job because I need to know if I'm actually dealing with someone who has the capability enough to use his brain to hold a job or achieve some sort of degree. I have serious doubts at this point.

No, you're simply a leftwing jackass who is losing the argument. You haven't really thought about the stuff you believe in, so it's easy for someone who has to tear you apart.

You aren't fooling anyone by attacking my schooling or my mental capabilities. Anyone with a brain can see who is losing this exchange.

 

[Intense]

I hear a lot these days about asking people and companies to pay their “fair share” in taxes. While I’m not sure what a “fair share” is (it seems that everyone believes they are paying a “fair share” or more of their own income already), I wonder if that should be the deciding factor. Should tax policy be “fair,” or should it focus more on what is best for the country?

We have a determinable tax base from which to draw these revenues, so let’s assume that expected revenue, without difficult to support GDP changes based upon certain plans, remains the same. How would you divide the taxpaying “pie” between the various income levels? We could conclude that it was the most beneficial to reduce the levels paid by the lower income levels, in order to spur consumption. Lower income households would tend to immediately spend those additional dollars on things they either want or need. Of course, since many of the products that are purchased by this group are made in China, it may not spur our economy to the extent you would think, and it would most certainly reduce the country’s saving rate and dollars available for investment, but there is a case to be made that it would increase economic activity, at least in the short term. If instead you reduce the levels paid by the upper income levels, those additional dollars will likely not be immediately spent, but invested in (hopefully) some productive endeavor. Again, some (probably fairly sizeable) percentage of those funds would also find their way to China as investments in plant or equipment, or in purchases of business assets. However, the savings rate of the country and the total pool of private capital would increase, theoretically spurring business investment. Setting aside what is “fair”, which do you think provides the best chance for long-term growth and prosperity? Is there an optimum level where consumers have enough to spend and the pool of capital is adequate?

Government has no business being anything other than Impartial. Either it establishes and serves Justice or it is at war with Justice. Can't have it both ways.

 

[RDD_1210]

LOL. Yeah you're tearing my argument to pieces. A fellow conservative even tried to explain this to you and asked why you can't grasp this.

Not every conservative has a firm grasp on every issue. Conservatives in this forum post all kinds of stuff that is just plain wrong. That's because they were all educated by communist indoctrinators. They mistakenly believe some of the swill they were spoon-fed in government schools.

I ask about your schooling and job because I need to know if I'm actually dealing with someone who has the capability enough to use his brain to hold a job or achieve some sort of degree. I have serious doubts at this point.

No, you're simply a leftwing jackass who is losing the argument. You haven't really thought about the stuff you believe in, so it's easy for someone who has to tear you apart.

You aren't fooling anyone by attacking my schooling or my mental capabilities. Anyone with a brain can see who is losing this exchange.

I didn't attack your education or job. I just inquired about it. Learn the difference...oh thats right, you can't.

I'm going to cut my losses and learn that talking to you is like explaining things to someone with severe autism and a severe delusions.

I'm sorry you're embarrassed by your lack of education and job. It does explain a lot about you though.

 

[Charles_Main]

I hear a lot these days about asking people and companies to pay their “fair share” in taxes. While I’m not sure what a “fair share” is (it seems that everyone believes they are paying a “fair share” or more of their own income already), I wonder if that should be the deciding factor. Should tax policy be “fair,” or should it focus more on what is best for the country?

We have a determinable tax base from which to draw these revenues, so let’s assume that expected revenue, without difficult to support GDP changes based upon certain plans, remains the same. How would you divide the taxpaying “pie” between the various income levels? We could conclude that it was the most beneficial to reduce the levels paid by the lower income levels, in order to spur consumption. Lower income households would tend to immediately spend those additional dollars on things they either want or need. Of course, since many of the products that are purchased by this group are made in China, it may not spur our economy to the extent you would think, and it would most certainly reduce the country’s saving rate and dollars available for investment, but there is a case to be made that it would increase economic activity, at least in the short term. If instead you reduce the levels paid by the upper income levels, those additional dollars will likely not be immediately spent, but invested in (hopefully) some productive endeavor. Again, some (probably fairly sizeable) percentage of those funds would also find their way to China as investments in plant or equipment, or in purchases of business assets. However, the savings rate of the country and the total pool of private capital would increase, theoretically spurring business investment. Setting aside what is “fair”, which do you think provides the best chance for long-term growth and prosperity? Is there an optimum level where consumers have enough to spend and the pool of capital is adequate?

The Constitution seems to say it should.

 

[Charles_Main]

LOL. Yeah you're tearing my argument to pieces. A fellow conservative even tried to explain this to you and asked why you can't grasp this.

Not every conservative has a firm grasp on every issue. Conservatives in this forum post all kinds of stuff that is just plain wrong. That's because they were all educated by communist indoctrinators. They mistakenly believe some of the swill they were spoon-fed in government schools.

I ask about your schooling and job because I need to know if I'm actually dealing with someone who has the capability enough to use his brain to hold a job or achieve some sort of degree. I have serious doubts at this point.

No, you're simply a leftwing jackass who is losing the argument. You haven't really thought about the stuff you believe in, so it's easy for someone who has to tear you apart.

You aren't fooling anyone by attacking my schooling or my mental capabilities. Anyone with a brain can see who is losing this exchange.

I didn't attack your education or job. I just inquired about it. Learn the difference...oh thats right, you can't.

I'm going to cut my losses and learn that talking to you is like explaining things to someone with severe autism and a severe delusions.

I'm sorry you're embarrassed by your lack of education and job. It does explain a lot about you though.

ROFLMAO you profess to us all you were not Attacking his Schooling and Education and then Proceed to do exactly that 2 lines later.

So Typically Liberal Elite of you.

 

[Steelplate]

Your problem is... you seem to think that they don't deserve a decent life in this country because they may not have the brains to get educated or the business savvy to run their own.

They deserve whatever they can acquire through voluntary transaction with their fellow citizens. What they don't deserve is a piece of my hide simply because they are losers who are too lazy or stupid to get a decent education and a decent occupation. Almost anyone who works hard can earn a reasonable wage within a matter of a few years. You have to be criminally lazy or congenitally stupid not to make it in this country - like the woman who has 15 children and says "someone has to be held accountable."

Do you think anyone experiences the slightest obligation to pay her bills?

Because people of lesser intelligence shouldn't have a decent life...they should suffer for their intellect.

The lady with 15 kids again??? Gimme a fuckin' break... extreme case. How many of them do you think are out there? Next you'll be telling me about the guy that wants to live as a baby.

The vast majority of the people in this country work for a god damned living and you fucking know it. A piece out of your hide? I love it. What do you do for a living? You a millionaire? If so... what in the FUCK are you doing on an internet message board being a dick? Go have fun with your fucking cash.

 

[bripat9643]

I didn't attack your education or job. I just inquired about it. Learn the difference...oh thats right, you can't.

I'm going to cut my losses and learn that talking to you is like explaining things to someone with severe autism and a severe delusions.

I'm sorry you're embarrassed by your lack of education and job. It does explain a lot about you though.

You're only "cutting your losses" because you have thoroughly humiliated yourself. Your sleazy personal attacks are only making you look petulant and spiteful. You haven't bothered addressing a single point I have made in your last three or four posts.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[FA_Q2]

Apparently you assume your opinion is the only one that matters.

What you're proposing is not fair. The "HARDSHIP," as you put it, shouldn't be levied against people disproportionately just because they make more or less money. By virtue of making more money, they'll pay more taxes. As with the poor, by virtue of making less they'd pay less. That's the only true fair way for taxation in America, period. Everything else is a pyramid scheme.

Bullshit... a flat tax is just that... a pyramid scheme... IN REVERSE.

Let's see... I rationally explained my opinion, while you flatulated your Ultimatum like a fart in church(and put an "end of story" to emphasize your point)... and you accuse me of thinking my opinion is the only one that matters? fuck off.

You're an idiot. You fly off the handle and think I'm ignoring your post as if your posts are the only ones I read on here, and then you get all huffy because I don't buy your bull shit, tax the rich more and the poor less garbage.

You can fuck off too moron.

The only true fair tax is everyone pay the same. All this graduated shit you liberals purport is nothing more than income redistribution, class envy and class warfare. You're not fooling anyone.

True, the only possible fair tax is one that taxes at the same rate. I fail to see how people do not understand this. The real question is whether or not fair should even matter. As one poster said - life is not fair. To suppose otherwise is asinine. The government should be taxing for one single purpose, to provide the necessary funds in order for it to operate. In that context, I care little for fair at all. The fact of the matter is that those that are truly poor cannot provide that funding. It is unreasonable to require them to. In that light, I can get behind a tiered system even though it would not be 'fair' because it is necessary. The reality is that we need a basic tax system that may or may not have a few tires but must most importantly have zero deductions, zero credits and ultimately include 100 percent of money earned no matter how it is earned. There is no reason to treat income differently than capital gains.

And if I said I wanted to tax aerospace companies in Washington state that gross over $10 billion a year, that wouldn't be the same thing as creating a tax on Boeing Aerospace, would it?

Not if Boeing opts to make pencil erasers instead....or have a bad year and gross less than 10 billion a year.

I believe THAT is the point RDD is making.

The tax wouldnt be on Boeing...it would be on any company that fits the criteria.

He doesn't get it, he won't ever get it. Apparently it's too tough of a concept.

It is not a though concept, it is an asinine one. The idea gives nothing to the discussion and is rather meaningless to the questions asked. Why spend so much time arguing over this when you have not even connected it to the OP or to the concept of 'fair' taxes.

No... we just want a fair day's pay for a fair day's work... adjusted for inflation and cost of living. Simple as that. Unfortunately... the only people that get to decide what that fair day's pay is... is the people who don't want to give a fair day's pay. wrong. Work ethic makes that decisionYou even want MORE of the same... you applaud every time everyday workers lose their right to organize.correct becuase we are seeing how unions protect those with the least acceptable work etyhic at the expense of those with the best possible work ethic You applaud every time the jobs go overseas.... because it's "their right" to do that. wrong...we applaud America as a land of freedom of choices You applaud the gross tax evasion that those same entities are allowed to commit because "they are just trying to keep what is theirs"I never applauyd anyone who breaks the law.. All hail the Plutocracy! Fuck the country, fuck the shrinking Middle Class, fuck the elderly, fuck the kids and most of all... fuck the poor. I dont know man...I look at the poor in the US and I gotta tell ya...let them see what the poor live like in any other country and I bet they wouldnt be complaining.The ONLY people you feel are worthy of anything are the rich. Everyone else can go scratch their asses.

I don't give a flying fuck how much other people haveIt seems quite apparent that is ALL you care about... but when a vast number of the people in this country can barely afford to keep a roof over their heads, really? Where? Sure, things are tight right now.....but you see an ever growing homeless situation happening? How many people do you hear about starving to death????their families fed and pay their monthly utilities, then you see reports on how the rich keep hauling money in at a record pace... well, if you can't see the fucked up nature of that... all talking points..and it is making you sound foolishthen you are too indoctrinated to even debate with.

Finally... the left's excuse for "denying what they are"? What... are you going to throw the "M" word out? I am not a fuckin' Marxist... that's more of your brainwashed propaganda against the vast majority of our population... you know... the people who do the wealthy's dirty work and get shit on at every turn?

wow...an entire post of talking points.

They got ya hooked.

Bull fuckin' shit. you know.. we can sit here and call each other names all night long. Work Ethic Means NOTHING when it comes to compensation. You could be the best fuckin' ditchdigger in the world... and guess what? Odds are you still aren't going to be able to raise a family on it. and before you even start... there are a hell of a lot of people out there that will never be anything more than a menial labor kind of worker.

Your problem is... you seem to think that they don't deserve a decent life in this country because they may not have the brains to get educated or the business savvy to run their own.

You are an elitist who only cares about the elite. and the only reason you are so infatuated with such a SMALL number of employees(unionized) is that the idiots on the radio tell you to be. You have not a fucking clue... not one. oh I know... next you'll be telling me how you either worked with, or was a Union member at one time and they were all jackoffs... that's just message board fodder because no one can prove it... so I don't believe it.

Taking your bullshit out, that people do not deserve a 'decent' life, you are damn right that a ditch digger does not nor will they ever deserve a life of a doctor or architect or any number of other people because he does not offer the same value for his work. That is not just a simple reality but it is also a fact of existence that is pervasive no matter what you try and to do to correct it. Raise his wages then all wages around him will raise to put his work back to the value that it actually brings. Certainly he deserves basic necessities and he will get it. What he does not deserve are the things that his work will not bring enough resources to earn - luxuries.

 

[Bern80]

No... we just want a fair day's pay for a fair day's work... adjusted for inflation and cost of living. Simple as that. Unfortunately... the only people that get to decide what that fair day's pay is... is the people who don't want to give a fair day's pay.

Wrong. But thank you for being yet another liberal that proves liberals are incapable of holding themselves accountable for their outcomes. You DO have control over whether you earn a fair days pay. You have control over your education and skills. And NEWSLASH: YOU are not the person who determines what is fair for you. Explain to me why your employer shouldn't have an eqaul say to you over what you get paid. People like you wouldn't fair if it bit you on the ass. Another NEWSFLASH: fair does not equal you getting what you want.

You even want MORE of the same... you applaud every time everyday workers lose their right to organize.

I have not problem with people organizing. The issue is you don't need a corporate union to do that. People have the right organize and assemble and if enough of you can do it such that you are able dictate terms to your employer because they have no other option, knock yourself out. The issue I have with unions is they serve the lowest common denominators. They protect the slackers. People who have taken the time to learn a skill that is valuable however generally have little need for unions. The find jobs that don't require protection because their employers already do that because their skills are worth treating them well. Again it goes back to holding yourself accountable first.

You applaud every time the jobs go overseas.... because it's "their right" to do that.

It's a person's right to make their living how they see fit. Your employer does not owe you your standard of living. If you want to bitch at someone for moving jobs overseas, bitch at government for making america so toxic with unneccesarry regulations and tax policy that it isn't worth it to american businesses to do business on their own soil.

You applaud the gross tax evasion that those same entities are allowed to commit because "they are just trying to keep what is theirs".

I applaud ANYONE, corporation or individual, doing everything legally possible to keep as much of what they've earned in their pocket and out of governments hands.

All hail the Plutocracy! Fuck the country, fuck the shrinking Middle Class, fuck the elderly, fuck the kids and most of all... fuck the poor. The ONLY people you feel are worthy of anything are the rich. Everyone else can go scratch their asses.

Whoops. Looks like I made the mistake of taking you seriously.

I don't give a flying fuck how much other people have... but when a vast number of the people in this country can barely afford to keep a roof over their heads, their families fed and pay their monthly utilities, then you see reports on how the rich keep hauling money in at a record pace... well, if you can't see the fucked up nature of that... then you are too indoctrinated to even debate with.

If you can't see how fucked up it is that people like you can't see that YOU are the reason that's happening than there is no helping you. If what you're doing isn't working, DO SOMETHING THAT DOES. Life sucks for a lot of people right not because of some conspiracy by the rich, but because our society has an increasing number of FUCKING MORONS like yourself. Enititled douche bags with no personal accounability whatsoever who think they are owed a life and insist it's someone elses responsibility to make things better for them. Society doesn't work that way. It's YOUR job to do what is neccessary to provide for yourself. Yet you have the nerve to piss and moan when the rest of society doesn't operate under your incredibly self serving and personally convenient rules.

Finally... the left's excuse for "denying what they are"? What... are you going to throw the "M" word out? I am not a fuckin' Marxist... that's more of your brainwashed propaganda against the vast majority of our population... you know... the people who do the wealthy's dirty work and get shit on at every turn?

I am well aware liberalism is not Marxism. What I mean by denying what you are is denying that you're self entitled brat who hates the rich for no other reason than being rich and thinks it's governments job to make your life 'fair' however you choose to conveniently define that.

 

[Bern80]

Bull fuckin' shit. you know.. we can sit here and call each other names all night long. Work Ethic Means NOTHING when it comes to compensation. You could be the best fuckin' ditchdigger in the world... and guess what? Odds are you still aren't going to be able to raise a family on it. and before you even start... there are a hell of a lot of people out there that will never be anything more than a menial labor kind of worker.

You're right. Maybe the first liberal to figure it out. Compensation is NOT about how hard you work. It's about the value of your work. Value is based on scarcity and demand. And since ditch digging is not in real high demand AND damn near anyone can dig, no you're probably not going to make a real living. So, you can either accept that and adjust your behavior accordingly, or you can sit here and piss and moan about how it's someone elses responsiblity to provide for the people who refused to do enough to provide for themselves.

Your problem is... you seem to think that they don't deserve a decent life in this country because they may not have the brains to get educated or the business savvy to run their own.

Why does anyone deserve more from someone else than the standard to which they hold themselves? If all you aspire to be and the only skill set you've been willing to cultivate is the ability to dig a hole, why the fuck do I owe you any more than that's worth? It is yet again, about personal accountability. You have ZERO right to expect anyone to treat you better than you are willing treat yourself.

You are an elitist who only cares about the elite. and the only reason you are so infatuated with such a SMALL number of employees(unionized) is that the idiots on the radio tell you to be. You have not a fucking clue... not one. oh I know... next you'll be telling me how you either worked with, or was a Union member at one time and they were all jackoffs... that's just message board fodder because no one can prove it... so I don't believe it.

And you are an endless pile of irrational excuses. Here you go again using radio punditry as your excuse to avoid debating the actual issue. Me nor the poster you are responding to need to listen to anyone else to know that unions have long since ceased to be organizations that protect employees from 'evil' employers. Personally, I have never been a part of a union (thank god). That I work for someone else, and am happy about not being in a union ought to tell you something. I don't NEED a union. My skills are valuable enough that I know I will be fairly compensated without them 'protecting' me from my 'evil' employer.

 

[kwc57]

LOL. Yeah you're tearing my argument to pieces. A fellow conservative even tried to explain this to you and asked why you can't grasp this.

Not every conservative has a firm grasp on every issue. Conservatives in this forum post all kinds of stuff that is just plain wrong. That's because they were all educated by communist indoctrinators. They mistakenly believe some of the swill they were spoon-fed in government schools.

I ask about your schooling and job because I need to know if I'm actually dealing with someone who has the capability enough to use his brain to hold a job or achieve some sort of degree. I have serious doubts at this point.

No, you're simply a leftwing jackass who is losing the argument. You haven't really thought about the stuff you believe in, so it's easy for someone who has to tear you apart.

You aren't fooling anyone by attacking my schooling or my mental capabilities. Anyone with a brain can see who is losing this exchange.

I didn't attack your education or job. I just inquired about it. Learn the difference...oh thats right, you can't.

I'm going to cut my losses and learn that talking to you is like explaining things to someone with severe autism and a severe delusions.

I'm sorry you're embarrassed by your lack of education and job. It does explain a lot about you though.

As an impartial bystander, you ain't winning shit in this conversation. Just sayin.......