Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

[Aristotle]

By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.

Not only was a lot of his research at Indiana University based off self-report (which is considered unreliable depending on the research) the man engaged in orgies with his students in his attic to record his data!

One doctor writes:

"There is also a documentary called "Kinsey's Pedophiles" that details Kinsey's involvement with pedophiles and other sexual miscreants from whom he gathered the data that supposedly supports his hypothesis that children are sexual from birth."

Also:

"Kinsey's two books -- "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male," published in 1948, and "Sexual Behavior in the Human Female," which followed in 1952 -- started what we now call the sexual revolution. This revolution is a lot more than just a change in attitude. It's a business -- a multibillion-dollar business.

This contraceptive mentality was born in the kind of sexual license that Kinsey endorsed. He believed pornography was harmless, that adultery can enhance a marriage and that children are sexual from birth." See:Judith Gelernter Reisman, Ph.D. - External Articles: The Truth Behind Alfred Kinsey

I hardly think Alfred Kinsey to be a catalyst in the understanding of homosexuality and pedophilia and in fact you (Koshergrl) citing him actually hurts your argument then helping it.

Which is why I pointed out that the APA made it's determination that homosexuality is not a mental disorder based on KINSEY'S studies. Apparently you agree with me that the determination was based on junk science.

No I don't agree with you. A lot of the issues concerning the overtunring of Homosexuality being in the DSM-II had to do with some political activist. Further research afterwards was introduced to conclude that not only did homosexuality have a genetic component, the similitude of sexual orientation to that of heterosexual men.

Koshergrl you are grossly misinformed and don't know what you're talking about. You are googling facts and posting them here as confirmation bias.

 

[koshergrl]

I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?

Yup. The APA based their findings not on their own studies, but on Kinsey's. Who used as his *control* group pedophiles, inmates and other depraved individuals.

No they didn't. The Kinsey reports didn't determine the changing of homosexuality based on Kinsey......This is foolish. Majority of his subjects were his students. What are you talking about? Psychology is my field and I actually spent a good portion of my undergraduate studies learning about Alfred Kinsey and the Linsey reports. A lot of his views were criticized and some dismissed.

Your statements are foolish. I know his views were criticized and dismissed...much later. But not before the APA lauded them and cited them to justify their decision to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder.

 

[Aristotle]

Pedophilia and homosexuality were both listed in the DSM II until political pressure made it inadvisable to continue listing homosexuality as a disorder. That pressure resulted in them dropping it in DSM III. Any informed person would know that, and not try to pretend that the lack of a change in one is proof of anything other than a lack political pressure.

Want to try again and provide objective scientific data to show a difference?

Nice job using google and paraphrasing what others wrote.

Regardless the political motive research has progressed and more research has developed showing that homosexuality may have both genetic and environmental components. Different from the Freudian perspective and who (Freud) developed his ideas on homosexuality from Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Hirschfield, in which Freud believed that all humans were born bi-sexual and that there are pathological components to sexual orientation.

As far as scientific difference I cannot account for every single research that has been done comparing homosexual male brains to heterosexual female brains. There are various ideas regarding the endocrine system. In some studies the anterior portion of the hypothalamus may vary in size between homosexual men and heterosexual women see:

https://fc.deltasd.bc.ca/~dmatthews/FOV2-00074762/S02DB0598.38/LeVay study.pdf

With pedophiles there still need to be more research on neurobiological mechanism in sex offenders but there are some research that points to brain structural abnormalities speculating frontocortical dysfunction. One research highlights:

"Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral striatum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.

These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Psychiatric Research - Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia

I had no need to use Google, I lived through it, and remember how it took decades for the political pressure from US progressives to spread far enough for WHO to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder.

As for structural abnormalities between brains, I remember that study to. Nice to see that you can use Google yourself. As I recall at the time, there were a lot of questions about cause and effect. Since the brains studied were of dead homosexuals it is entirely possible that a lifetime of homosexuality changed the physical structure of the brain. Since we now have studies that prove that it is actually possible to change brain structure through meditation, feel free to Google it if you don't believe me, how can you prove that the cause/effect between brain structure and homosexuality or pedophilia?

Want to try again? Maybe you can come up with something I haven't seen before, and actually force me to use Google to figure out how to respond.

Good luck with that.

Remember what? Dude I can most certainly know you didn't study neuroscience nor do you understand brain development. You're brain structures do not "grow" they replace old cells and you develop new and constant connections in the brain. Throughout your life your hypothalamus doesn't grow larger its volume comes to a peak. Did you even look at the provided abstract? The abstract was not talking about dead homosexual patients, it was looking at the basic structures between homosexuals and pedophiles. Lety me guess, the abstract is too difficult for you to read?

 

[koshergrl]

"Just as influential in the APA's decision were the research studies on homosexuality of the 1940's and 1950's. Alfred Kinsey's and colleagues' study on male and female sexuality marked the beginning of a cultural shift away from the view of homosexuality as pathology and toward viewing it as a normal variant of human sexuality. Kinsey had criticized scientists' tendency to represent homosexuals and heterosexuals as "inherently different types of individuals." Therefore, he introduced a 0 to 6 scale to classify sexual behavior or fantasy from "exclusively heterosexual" to "exclusively homosexual" (the "Kinsey Scale"). The "Kinsey Reports" found that 37% of males and 13% of females had at least some overt homosexual experience to the point of orgasm; furthermore, 10% of males were more or less exclusively homosexual and 8% of males were exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. This is where the frequently quoted "10%" figure comes from. 2-6% of women reported more or less exclusively homosexual experience or response. A more modest 4% of males and 1-3% of females had been exclusively homosexual after the onset of adolescence until the time of the interview. "

LGBT Mental Health Syllabus

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nice job using google and paraphrasing what others wrote.

Regardless the political motive research has progressed and more research has developed showing that homosexuality may have both genetic and environmental components. Different from the Freudian perspective and who (Freud) developed his ideas on homosexuality from Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Hirschfield, in which Freud believed that all humans were born bi-sexual and that there are pathological components to sexual orientation.

As far as scientific difference I cannot account for every single research that has been done comparing homosexual male brains to heterosexual female brains. There are various ideas regarding the endocrine system. In some studies the anterior portion of the hypothalamus may vary in size between homosexual men and heterosexual women see:

https://fc.deltasd.bc.ca/~dmatthews/FOV2-00074762/S02DB0598.38/LeVay study.pdf

With pedophiles there still need to be more research on neurobiological mechanism in sex offenders but there are some research that points to brain structural abnormalities speculating frontocortical dysfunction. One research highlights:

"Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral striatum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.

These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Psychiatric Research - Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia

I had no need to use Google, I lived through it, and remember how it took decades for the political pressure from US progressives to spread far enough for WHO to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder.

As for structural abnormalities between brains, I remember that study to. Nice to see that you can use Google yourself. As I recall at the time, there were a lot of questions about cause and effect. Since the brains studied were of dead homosexuals it is entirely possible that a lifetime of homosexuality changed the physical structure of the brain. Since we now have studies that prove that it is actually possible to change brain structure through meditation, feel free to Google it if you don't believe me, how can you prove that the cause/effect between brain structure and homosexuality or pedophilia?

Want to try again? Maybe you can come up with something I haven't seen before, and actually force me to use Google to figure out how to respond.

Good luck with that.

Remember what? Dude I can most certainly know you didn't study neuroscience nor do you understand brain development. You're brain structures do not "grow" they replace old cells and you develop new and constant connections in the brain. Throughout your life your hypothalamus doesn't grow larger its volume comes to a peak. Did you even look at the provided abstract? The abstract was not talking about dead homosexual patients, it was looking at the basic structures between homosexuals and pedophiles. Lety me guess, the abstract is too difficult for you to read?

Did I say I studied neuroscience? When did you get a degree in it, I thought you said you are a researcher.

I believe what I said is that studies have proven that meditation changes brain structure. I have an NIH study to back that up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1361002/

I believe I also said that I remember when that study came out, and that some people wondered about the cause/effect link between the the structure of the brain and behavior. Until we examine the brains of children and compare them to their brains as adults, something that has not yet happened, there is no way to know if the behavior shapes the brain or if the brain shapes behavior.

Instead of simply blathering the next time you reply you might want to take my advice and stop looking for an answer, and simply gather all the evidence.

 

[Aristotle]

i had no need to use google, i lived through it, and remember how it took decades for the political pressure from us progressives to spread far enough for who to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder.

As for structural abnormalities between brains, i remember that study to. Nice to see that you can use google yourself. As i recall at the time, there were a lot of questions about cause and effect. Since the brains studied were of dead homosexuals it is entirely possible that a lifetime of homosexuality changed the physical structure of the brain. Since we now have studies that prove that it is actually possible to change brain structure through meditation, feel free to google it if you don't believe me, how can you prove that the cause/effect between brain structure and homosexuality or pedophilia?

Want to try again? Maybe you can come up with something i haven't seen before, and actually force me to use google to figure out how to respond.

Good luck with that.

remember what? Dude i can most certainly know you didn't study neuroscience nor do you understand brain development. You're brain structures do not "grow" they replace old cells and you develop new and constant connections in the brain. Throughout your life your hypothalamus doesn't grow larger its volume comes to a peak. Did you even look at the provided abstract? The abstract was not talking about dead homosexual patients, it was looking at the basic structures between homosexuals and pedophiles. Lety me guess, the abstract is too difficult for you to read?

did i say i studied neuroscience? When did you get a degree in it, i thought you said you are a researcher.

I believe what i said is that studies have proven that meditation changes brain structure. I have an nih study to back that up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc1361002/

i believe i also said that i remember when that study came out, and that some people wondered about the cause/effect link between the the structure of the brain and behavior. Until we examine the brains of children and compare them to their brains as adults, something that has not yet happened, there is no way to know if the behavior shapes the brain or if the brain shapes behavior.

Instead of simply blathering the next time you reply you might want to take my advice and stop looking for an answer, and simply gather all the evidence.

xxxxxxx

 

[koshergrl]

xxxxxxx

 

[Wroberson]

According to the Sex Offender Database there are 5 sex offenders in the town where I live.

Yes, these people need to be monitored and the people of the community need to be aware.

 

[Noomi]

I think you have it backwards: Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control. That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

I think its possible to keep it under control. Just like it is possible to quit smoking, or taking drugs. Its hard, but you can do it. If you end up molesting a child, your willpower has failed you.

 

[koshergrl]

No, it's not possible to keep it under control. Which is why pedos must be closely monitored and clearly identified as what they are.

 

[Noomi]

No, it's not possible to keep it under control. Which is why pedos must be closely monitored and clearly identified as what they are.

Of course they should be monitored, even after being released from prison, but I imagine that there are thousands of potential pedophiles out there right now who have not acted on their impulses.

 

[koshergrl]

You would be wrong.

 

[Noomi]

You would be wrong.

You have no evidence of your claims.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Certain types of sex offenders should be absolved of the stigma. In many cases, we aren't differentiating between child molesters and people who have sex in public. To me, that's wrong.

 

[Colin]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

There are few things lower or more depraved than sexual molestation of children. No, pedophiles do not deserve absolution from society. In my view they should be surgically castrated and when they are released into the community they should be named and shamed and their location made public.

 

[koshergrl]

You would be wrong.

You have no evidence of your claims.

Professionals who study and work with child molesters agree, there is no reason to assume they will not act on impulses if they think they will get away with it. That information has been posted, you've seen it. If you want to pretend you haven't, that's fine.

"According to the U. S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, on any given day there are approximately 234,000 sex offenders who were convicted of rape or sexual assault and are in the custody or control of correction agencies. Consider the following statistics:
* The median age of the victims of convicted sex offenders was less than 13 years old.
* Approximately 24% of those offenders confined for rape and 19% of those imprisoned for sexual assault had been on parole or probation at the time of the crime.
* In one year alone, approximately 4,300 child molesters in 15 states were released from imprisonment.
* Of the 4,300 child molesters released, approximately 3.3% were rearrested within three years for another sex offense against a child. "

Sex Offender Statistics - Child Molester Statistics

 

[koshergrl]

I'm curious...are you proposing we lighten sentences for those who prey upon children based on you're belief there are a lot of undiagnosed pedophiles who don't act on their impulses? How does that reasoning work? Do you think those who have already acted on the impulse to harm children should have their slate washed clean, even though everybody who works with them says adamantly they continue to be a threat to children as long as they're alive?

 

[High_Gravity]

Welcome back KG!

 

[Nightson]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

As a parent of children ranging in age from five to sixteen, I earnestly believe in capital punishment for convicted pedophiles. I absolutely do not believe an individual who has committed a sex crime against a child is a salvageable human being.

1.) No. A person does not "suffer" from pedophilia. He or she is a biomechanical machine with a sole function and motivation: to use children to sate their insatiable desires. The pedophile is not a victim, but a victimizer of those who innately trust and seek haven in the authority of most adults. Children tend to trust most adults in their immediate sphere of existence. This is the foremost weakness the pedophile exploits. Absolution...religious or otherwise is not possible in my opinion. I do not believe in the contemporary philosophy of learning to live with the evil you have done...regarding the acts of the pedophile in particular. Never forgive, never forget.

2.) One who has indelibly physically and mentally rent a child's existence for personal pleasure need not worry about recovery--they ought to be left to look over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. This johnny come lately idea that has penetrated the morality of our society--this belief that one ought to be able to victimize and inflict hell on another person and later learn to live with it and then somehow reintegrate into society as a productive member, is purely amoral and wrong. Even the most liberal among us know it. If we as parents, as Americans do not do everything in our power to protect society's most innocent, said society needs to collapse. This question is alarming.

 

[koshergrl]

Certain types of sex offenders should be absolved of the stigma. In many cases, we aren't differentiating between child molesters and people who have sex in public. To me, that's wrong.

Mandatory sentencing is always a bad idea.

But really, we're talking about pedophiles...not all sex offenders. The OP and Noom are seeking to protect pedophiles from stigma.