Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

[koshergrl]

I don't need to read your entire post, I read as far as "proof that depo makes"...

I never said that depo makes sex offenders more violent. I said that sex offenders often increase the violence of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing.

Two. Different. Things.

So really there's no point in ready your entire post. When someone is so wrong right off the bat, I generally stop right there.

 

[koshergrl]

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.

 

[sakinago]

I don't need to read your entire post, I read as far as "proof that depo makes"...

I never said that depo makes sex offenders more violent. I said that sex offenders often increase the violence of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing.

Two. Different. Things.

So really there's no point in ready your entire post. When someone is so wrong right off the bat, I generally stop right there.

I am sure you did read it and found some truth to what I was saying but didn't want to admit it...why else would you need keep redundantly repeating (ironically redundant) that you didn't need to read it? But if you really did not read it, please go back and do so, and show me where I am wrong. I do think what I am talking about is a very important issue that we all need to pay more attention too. I would honestly appreciate some feedback on it.

"sex offenders often increase the violence of their attacks as they become more inured to the thrill of what they're doing."

So your are not referring to the efficacy of Depo, but stating that it can in some cases make them more violent? I honestly don't see that big of a difference, and anyway, medication is all about safety and efficacy, and I dont understand why you wouldn't want to talk about that. I would still like to see the studies and how it relates to the Depo shot. Statin's can cause damage to the heart...but the doc still wants you to take them because in most cases they're going to do a lot of good.

 

[sakinago]

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.

Well you sound like some sort of correctional officer to me. I am sure your job is hard and at times frustrating working with the people you do. I have worked with a couple of you as a lab tech at a hospital for 2 years, mostly because the home drug test kits you guys give that look for anti-human anti-bodies are not the most effective (work good), but don't take into account urine dilution, niacin, etc. I have also done blood work on a couple of the sex offenders taking depo, making sure they took it and their clotting times are at a therapeutic level. I've heard nothing but good things about the Depo treatment, I am sure the sex offenders are against it but who cares. That being said, parole only last a certain ammount of time, what happens when they get off of parole and supervision, kind of sounds like they can do almost whatever they want. And it seems to me like even when they're on supervision, it varies from county to county, or at least state to state. One area might be more lax than the other.

But again, please read what I wrote earlier. I would like to have your view on it.

 

[koshergrl]

I am not a correctional officer and never have been. Correctional officers don't write out life plans, testify in court, or communicate with therapists and doctors about their clients.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why should every criminal be treated the same? Every crime is not the same. Thieves do not need to be monitored to make sure they aren't working at schools, for example, or hanging out at bowling alleys for the express purpose of grooming children.

A thief should be monitored to ensure they are not breaking into another home. A murderer should be monitored to ensure they are not killing anyone.

Every criminal has the potential to go back to crime, just like pedophiles.

Every person on Earth has the potential to commit a crime, maybe the government should just monitor everyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A thief of property will break in to your home, ransack your house and steal your belongings. I think that they should be monitored to ensure they don't do the same again, don't you?

They often are when released from prison when they are placed on probation.

I think thieves can reform and never think about stealing again. I do not think pedophiles can do the same.

Pedophiles have urges much like homosexuals. If a homosexual can refrain from acting upon their desires, why couldn't a pedophile?

I have more faith in people than you, it would seem.

Go to an AA meeting sometime, you will learn that no one is safe.

 

[Noomi]

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.

Since you have experience with this kind of thing, I am inclined to trust you know what you are talking about.

But I can't ignore one thing - and that is, that everyone deserves a second chance, and that these people, with the right support, can control their urges. Maybe it was just how I was raised, but its something I truly believe.

 

[sakinago]

Yeah, well that is how it works, and you don't know what you're talking about.

Yea actually I do. I would like to see the stats claiming that depo makes pedophiles more violent. I've heard nothing but otherwise. And it also logically makes sense that someone without a sex drive, who is being supervised, is not very likely to re-offend.

And I never said that it was the childs job to recognize grooming or sexual advances. But you can not deny that too many children out there are too afraid to speak up when it does happen. Or that there are too many adults who havn't educated themselves on how to prevent these attacks from happening, recognize grooming, or the signs that their child might be getting abused. I.E. when a kid says they do not want to go to uncle so-and-so's house, and the parents just assume that it is because that uncle isn't fun. I do think that when your kids reach a certain level of cognitive thinking that while it might be an awkward conversation, it is important to teach them to recognize the signs of grooming, and advances, and how to react when they happen. I mean why would you not do everything in your power to protect your kids from one of the most heinous crimes that can be done to them? I just think that too many people rely on the megans law or whatever its called in your state to protect their kids. Pedophiles are not going to go away, but you can educate yourselves and your kids to make sure: A it does not happen to them or B. if it does you can stop the abuse right there in its tracks. Too many kids out there suffer the abuse for years, this is what we need to change...but no one seems to be concerned with this.

Think about it this way. What if we treated those who are HIV +, like we do our sex offenders. (I am not comparing pedophiles to AIDS patients, just using an example on how we changed our thinking). When AIDS was discovered, there were a lot of people who wanted those who were HIV + to be required to wear a bracelet or something disclosing to the public (especially to the medical community) that they were HIV+. The medical community was very worried that they were going to become HIV+, because they were the ones handling the biohazardous blood. Instead, the medical community decided to treat everyone as if they had AIDS. Not only did this prevent them from becoming HIV+ from the ones we know about, it also prevented them from becoming HIV+ from the ones who didn't know they were (which was a lot), and also prevented them from catching other blood-borne illness's like Hep-c. Right now we are just catching the pedophiles after they've been abusing for years, but not really doing anything to prevent new attacks, or to make the abuse a 1 time deal.

Is what I am saying making sense, or am I just taking crazy pills. I just don't see how people could say that what we are doing to protect our kids is enough. NO IT ISN'T. We are just spraying buckshot around hoping we catch a pedophile every once in a while, when we could be using a sniper rifle and almost put an end to the terrible abuse we see everyday. Why would you not want to do everything in your power to protect your kids?

I just wanna hear people feedback on the above thoughts. I dont know why everyone is not having this conversation, because what were doing is clearly not enough. Its like celebrating when we've gotten the terrorist after he made a terrorist attack, when some simple steps to prevent him could have been taken.

 

[Katzndogz]

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.

Since you have experience with this kind of thing, I am inclined to trust you know what you are talking about.

But I can't ignore one thing - and that is, that everyone deserves a second chance, and that these people, with the right support, can control their urges. Maybe it was just how I was raised, but its something I truly believe.

No they can't control their urges because they aren't urges. It's not like passing up that bag of M&Ms because you are on a diet. What pedophiles have is a compulsion, not an urge.

 

[sakinago]

I know how to protect our children from sex offenders. I've been responsible for both community safety and pedo safety, I've monitored sex offenders, taken them to their court appearances and to the clinic for depos, and I've developed life plans meant to take into consideration both the safety of the community and life fulfillment of the pedophile. I know how to identify and "catch" pedophiles, I know what behaviors to watch for, and I know how to make sure children are safe from them. And the way you do that is you keep them separated.

Since you have experience with this kind of thing, I am inclined to trust you know what you are talking about.

But I can't ignore one thing - and that is, that everyone deserves a second chance, and that these people, with the right support, can control their urges. Maybe it was just how I was raised, but its something I truly believe.

No they can't control their urges because they aren't urges. It's not like passing up that bag of M&Ms because you are on a diet. What pedophiles have is a compulsion, not an urge.

It all depends, the homosexual pedophiles... yes, they do have compulsions and will re-offend the first chance they get. I think they should be required to take depo and be under supervision (if not in prison for life). Then there is a smaller population of hetero ones that are just as dangerous. But most hetero will keep it in the family or someone that they are very close to. But again, these guys are harder to catch because of how they manipulate. I think we try to make up for it by going after people who are not dangers to society, and say "see we convicted this many sex offenders, look how we are keeping everyone safe." I mean no one is taking a good look at the problem we have on our hands, and trying to take real steps to solve it.

 

[uscitizen]

Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

the ones with minor offenses should.
Such as the guy who took a leak behind his barn and some woman with 2 children saw him.
These things can be grouped with the serious sex offenders on the offenders registry.

 

[sakinago]

Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

the ones with minor offenses should.
Such as the guy who took a leak behind his barn and some woman with 2 children saw him.
These things can be grouped with the serious sex offenders on the offenders registry.

Yea thats what I am talking about. The real ones are harder to catch, so they go after those guys to placate the people so they think they're being protected.

 

[Katzndogz]

Since you have experience with this kind of thing, I am inclined to trust you know what you are talking about.

But I can't ignore one thing - and that is, that everyone deserves a second chance, and that these people, with the right support, can control their urges. Maybe it was just how I was raised, but its something I truly believe.

No they can't control their urges because they aren't urges. It's not like passing up that bag of M&Ms because you are on a diet. What pedophiles have is a compulsion, not an urge.

It all depends, the homosexual pedophiles... yes, they do have compulsions and will re-offend the first chance they get. I think they should be required to take depo and be under supervision (if not in prison for life). Then there is a smaller population of hetero ones that are just as dangerous. But most hetero will keep it in the family or someone that they are very close to. But again, these guys are harder to catch because of how they manipulate. I think we try to make up for it by going after people who are not dangers to society, and say "see we convicted this many sex offenders, look how we are keeping everyone safe." I mean no one is taking a good look at the problem we have on our hands, and trying to take real steps to solve it.

In Germany they tried chemical castration and found that the compulsion has very little to do with sex. Sexual offenses occur in the head. If deprived of a sexual method of achieving their goal, they will just change methods. They will torture, they will use penetration by object. They want to see fear and pain because it gives them power and power is what they want, not sex. Sex is just one way to get that power.

William Bonin killed over 30 young boys in California in the 80s. At first he raped them, but after awhile sex with these boys didn't give him the feeling that he was looking for. Sex delayed the main event so he moved on to killing them and taking a long time to do it. Torture was foreplay.

Of all the deviancies, sexual deviancy is the hardest to explain to the ordinary person. They just won't accept it.

 

[koshergrl]

Define a "minor" offense that would be committed by a pedophile, please. And explain why it is considered "minor".

 

[sakinago]

No they can't control their urges because they aren't urges. It's not like passing up that bag of M&Ms because you are on a diet. What pedophiles have is a compulsion, not an urge.

It all depends, the homosexual pedophiles... yes, they do have compulsions and will re-offend the first chance they get. I think they should be required to take depo and be under supervision (if not in prison for life). Then there is a smaller population of hetero ones that are just as dangerous. But most hetero will keep it in the family or someone that they are very close to. But again, these guys are harder to catch because of how they manipulate. I think we try to make up for it by going after people who are not dangers to society, and say "see we convicted this many sex offenders, look how we are keeping everyone safe." I mean no one is taking a good look at the problem we have on our hands, and trying to take real steps to solve it.

In Germany they tried chemical castration and found that the compulsion has very little to do with sex. Sexual offenses occur in the head. If deprived of a sexual method of achieving their goal, they will just change methods. They will torture, they will use penetration by object. They want to see fear and pain because it gives them power and power is what they want, not sex. Sex is just one way to get that power.

William Bonin killed over 30 young boys in California in the 80s. At first he raped them, but after awhile sex with these boys didn't give him the feeling that he was looking for. Sex delayed the main event so he moved on to killing them and taking a long time to do it. Torture was foreplay.

Of all the deviancies, sexual deviancy is the hardest to explain to the ordinary person. They just won't accept it.

Again you have to look at the sampling in the study, I wouldn't even call what you just posted a study. Are there going to be psychopaths out there that just want to torture by any means, yes... not much you can do about those few cases. People watch TV and think that are people everywhere like the people on criminal minds or something, but thats not the case. Ofcourse when you try chemical castration on people like that, they are going to find another way to get satisfied from a different type of torture. You cant bring up one case and apply it to all pedophiles. Does depo coupled with supervision work with 90% of pedophiles, absolutely.

As far as defining a minor offense, Romeo and Juliet cases where you have a 18-21 y/o male and a 15-16 y/o female, in a consenting relationship. Is that kid an idiot, yes, should he be punished, yea misdomeanor, community service, and fine. If he does it again then punish him like we do now. But I don't think these kids are dangers to society, and should have their life ruined because they did something stupid. Guys who were drunk and grabbed someones ass, inappropriate yes, dangers to society, no. Again slap them on the wrist, let them know if they do it again they will be punished to the full extent, and they probably will not re-offend. People who went streaking at a party, game, etc. Stupid yes, dangers to society, no. If people are allowed to protest nude, have nude bike ride fundraisers, then I dont think its fair that these people have their lives ruined because we want to catch as many "sex offenders" as possible. I hear they're going to add prostitutes to that list, are they a fop-ah to society, yes, are they a danger... not really. Some cases of porn, kids get addicted to porn and just like any other addiction need something stronger. This area is a little tricky, but I think we can properly screen them with polygraphs and other tests to make sure they are not attracted to children, if they arn't, give them a decent punishment, but again dont ruin their lives forever. Guys like uscitizen said who take a leak behind a bar or something and get spotted by a family, come on now, theres no way you can say they belong on that list.

 

[koshergrl]

Mandatory sentencing is idiotic.

That's why I never supported it.

Unfortunately, sex offenses, since being demoted in the 80s and 90s to simple "ahem" moments, are potentially serious enough that we really can't afford to let them out without identifying them. This is why we have laws that require monitoring. It happens with horrifying regularity....sex offenders released, then move on to the next victim, sometimes killing them.

People need to know when someone has a sex offense in his background. Just so you know, I've never met one rank offender who didn't minimalize what he did. And I also want to know if the 23 year old young man living next door is fresh out of prison for screwing his 16 y.o. girlfriend....he knew it was illegal, but his love was so great for her he just had to act on it before she came of age?

I don't buy it.

When you're talking 16 y.o./14 y.o. you have a point. Those kids should be re-evaluated in 10 years or so, and potentially be expunged.

But, again..you reduce the punishment for sex offenses, while at the same time you establish mandatory sentencing laws...neither addresses the problem. Naturally both are dem-supported movements.

 

[sakinago]

Mandatory sentencing is idiotic.

That's why I never supported it.

Unfortunately, sex offenses, since being demoted in the 80s and 90s to simple "ahem" moments, are potentially serious enough that we really can't afford to let them out without identifying them. This is why we have laws that require monitoring. It happens with horrifying regularity....sex offenders released, then move on to the next victim, sometimes killing them.

People need to know when someone has a sex offense in his background. Just so you know, I've never met one rank offender who didn't minimalize what he did. And I also want to know if the 23 year old young man living next door is fresh out of prison for screwing his 16 y.o. girlfriend....he knew it was illegal, but his love was so great for her he just had to act on it before she came of age?

I don't buy it.

When you're talking 16 y.o./14 y.o. you have a point. Those kids should be re-evaluated in 10 years or so, and potentially be expunged.

But, again..you reduce the punishment for sex offenses, while at the same time you establish mandatory sentencing laws...neither addresses the problem. Naturally both are dem-supported movements.

Right, and I didn't want to go too far above 20 age wise, because I do think around the age of 23, yea they are taking advantage of the girls mentally with their age, and that I think is wrong enough to make them a sex offender, but not necessarily for life. But my buddies little brother was in high school, starting dating a 15 year old, he graduated, she was maybe 16 but he broke up with her cause she was too young, her parents didn't like it and pressed charges. He's been out of prison for a while, cant find a job he can make a career out of, no one wants to hire a sex offender, and I don't think he is allowed to drink for life (I could be wrong but thats what I heard). They put the poor kid and his mugshot on the front page of the paper, and really tried to make it sound like he actually raped the girl, they left out the statutory part definitely on purpose (you know how the news is). To me thats just ridiculous. Its already hard enough to find a job in this economy, imagine having his record? College is pretty much out of the question for him, no job that requires bachelors degree or higher would ever higher him over a ton of competition out there, which is a shame cause he's a pretty smart kid.

Im not saying relax the laws on sex offenders, just better define what a sex offender is, and give the ones who arn't dangers to society an opportunity to live a normal life. I mean for most cases it is really not that hard to determine if they are a risk or not. And for those who are dangers, I think depo coupled with supervision is a good solution, and they should absolutely be on the list. You can't always separate them from children, kids are everywhere. But you take away their sex drive, let them know that they are going to get caught if they try anything. Now, there are still sickos out there who will re-offend anyway, but I think we need a better form of screening and just lock these guys away for life.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes I know many boys who were hit with sex offense charges by the psychotic parents of friends and acquaintances...and it does take $$ to get out of something like that, so the ones who don't have $$ for a good attorney have gotten screwed.

And I think even if you are labeled with the SO title for the rest of your life because of that, people are sympathetic and get it. It might change your life but it doesn't have to ruin it.

Another really good reason to teach your kids that no sex is good sex until marriage, and to observe some of the most highly scorned social practices that libs have tossed out...practices like "no holding hands" and "no kissing" and "no dating"...."save yourself for your intended" "Wait until you're older" and "don't dress provacatively" and "think pure thoughts" .