CDZ Should Republicans support Trump because, if nothing else, he's the Republican nominee?

[320 Years of History]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

 

[Ozone]

i'm okay with it, but still not sure what people mean by ''support''. maybe say nice things about him? he's an a**h***, that's about the nicest thing i can say about him. is it about money, like how much of a donation to a campaign does it take to qualify as ''support''? but i've never been to any trump rallies. as far as i know the guy could be a hologram like obama. even so, if you are a republican, you have prioritize, and it's not just a vote against hillary. a vote for trump is a vote for the perfect maniac to prompt the democrats to support things they usually refuse in terms of states rights and shifting power from the executive department to the congress, that is, checks and balances and so forth. if hillary takes office, the congress is nothing more than a ceremonial rubber stamp on whatever she commands, she barks and the legislature will just roll over in submission, but who in washington dc is willing to give trump that privilege? for once in my life i'd like to see a congress say 'no means no' and it sticks instead of the 'but he loves me' affair.

 

[yiostheoy]

Should the Germans have elected Adolf Hitler just because he was the National Socialist making promises that they all loved to hear about making Germany great again ?!

 

[Dale Smith]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

I wouldn't support Hitlery or cast a vote for her (even if I could) even if a gun was pointed at my head. Trump would most definitely get my vote...every fucking day of the week over the Hitlery klunt and for a myriad of reasons...none of which you would even understand. Shay is a liberal and the quintessential RINO......look at his voting record..."moderate" my ass......

 

[Dale Smith]

Should the Germans have elected Adolf Hitler just because he was the National Socialist making promises that they all loved to hear about making Germany great again ?!

Hitlery is a friggin' Nazi socialist...are you kidding me?

 

[Disir]

I can't think of any reason to vote for Clinton, the Democrats, Trump or the Republicans. The only thing the Democrats have been able to put together is but, Trump.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

The reason the McCains and Ryans etc support him is because they know Trump is what Republicans want, and if they don't go along they will be rejected and their political career over. People like Shays are a minority in the Republican party. Don't believe it? Look at this poll:

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over 'Birther' Question

The majority of Republicans are birthers and Trump is one of the leaders of the birther movement. Trump best represents the values and philosophy of most Republicans, this is what the party has become, simple as that.

 

[320 Years of History]

People like Shays are a minority in the Republican party. Don't believe it? Look at this poll:

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over 'Birther' Question

The majority of Republicans are birthers...

Surely you read the article and it's notes before you used it to support your claims about what the majority and minority of the GOP think/want/believe?

I don't know if that's so or not so. I do know that non-probability surveys won't tell with any reasonable degree of assuredness whether it is or not. (Probability Sampling) From the article: "Respondents for this non-probability survey..."

I can't say why NBC bothered to share the results of that non-probability survey, but they sure did, and you sure did latch onto it. I can say that what the survey result are useful for is entertainment; they cannot be used to credibly support any assertions pertaining to the survey results.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

The simple fact is those republicsns that have came out against Trump and even declared that they will vote for clinton in some cases do so knowing that they themselves have s better chance a keeping their own little bit of power with clinton than they do with Trump. That's all its about with these people. Keeping their own power.

 

[WheelieAddict]

People like Shays are a minority in the Republican party. Don't believe it? Look at this poll:

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over 'Birther' Question

The majority of Republicans are birthers...

Surely you read the article and it's notes before you used it to support your claims about what the majority and minority of the GOP think/want/believe?

I don't know if that's so or not so. I do know that non-probability surveys won't tell with any reasonable degree of assuredness whether it is or not. (Probability Sampling) From the article: "Respondents for this non-probability survey..."

I can't say why NBC bothered to share the results of that non-probability survey, but they sure did, and you sure did latch onto it. I can say that what the survey result are useful for is entertainment; they cannot be used to credibly support any assertions pertaining to the survey results.

So Trump being nominated is a fluke then? I don't think so. He is who most Republicans want to represent their party.

 

[320 Years of History]

People like Shays are a minority in the Republican party. Don't believe it? Look at this poll:

Poll: Persistent Partisan Divide Over 'Birther' Question

The majority of Republicans are birthers...

Surely you read the article and it's notes before you used it to support your claims about what the majority and minority of the GOP think/want/believe?

I don't know if that's so or not so. I do know that non-probability surveys won't tell with any reasonable degree of assuredness whether it is or not. (Probability Sampling) From the article: "Respondents for this non-probability survey..."

I can't say why NBC bothered to share the results of that non-probability survey, but they sure did, and you sure did latch onto it. I can say that what the survey result are useful for is entertainment; they cannot be used to credibly support any assertions pertaining to the survey results.

So Trump being nominated is a fluke then? I don't think so. He is who most Republicans want to represent their party.

I don't know if it's a fluke. I don't care if it's a fluke because, fluke or no fluke, he is the nominee. Historians some years from now can determine based on more than one data point whether Trump's having been nominated was a fluke.

More importantly, however, what I wrote has nothing to do with whether his nomination is a fluke. My remark has to do with the lack of reliability that exists in the polling data you submitted to support your claims about what a majority of the GOP's members believe and what sorts of ideas are held by a minority of the party.

The point of my remarks in the post quoted above is is that if one intends to support one's claims with poll results, one needs to at least cite a poll that credible.

 

[320 Years of History]

Could this thread have been more prescient? This morning comes this: The Republican Party’s Chairman’s Warning to Donald Trump

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus told Donald Trump in a phone call last week that if he doesn’t turn his flailing campaign around, the national party may shift its focus from his candidacy to down-ballot races, according to two GOP officials briefed on the exchange.

The officials said Priebus described to Trump internal party polls that show his campaign headed in the wrong direction. Priebus told Trump that he would have been better off had he spent the days since the Republican convention at his Mar-a-Lago Club, officials said.

Trump denied the officials’ account of the exchange.

“Reince Priebus is a terrific guy,” Trump told TIME on Tuesday. “He never said that.” Trump also said that the Republican Party should be grateful for his recent fundraising. “Why would they state that when I am raising millions of dollars for them?” Trump asked, rhetorically.

Priebus could not be reached for comment.

Whatever the exact words spoken on the phone, there is no doubt that the possibility of Republicans effectively abandoning Trump by prioritizing voter outreach for down-ballot races now haunts his presidential campaign. In the last two weeks, Trump has suffered a deep dive in public polls amid a number of controversies caused by his own public statements .

Priebus and Trump talk frequently, with the party chair urging Trump for months to professionalize his operations and campaign. But the tenor of the calls turned more frank and frustrated last week as Trump’s campaign slide continued. The officials said Priebus reminded Trump that his title is RNC chairman, not chairman of the Trump campaign, adding that he would act in the best interests of the Republican Party.

With the party seeing record numbers of ticket-splitting voters in its internal and public polls, the GOP is facing a decision about whether to prioritize outreach to those voters who would never vote for Trump but remain open to supporting its Senate and House candidates. The end result could be the party expending resources to turn out voters who will vote for Hillary Clinton but also back Republican Senate incumbents like Marco Rubio in Florida or Rob Portman in Ohio.

With early voting beginning in mid-September, Priebus told Trump he doesn’t have much time to reverse his polling slide, the officials said. Priebus reinforced a longstanding plea to Trump to stay on message—a goal that remained elusive more than a week a later as Trump’s economic speech was quickly drowned out by comments viewed by critics as promoting political violence.

​

Inside Donald Trump’s Meltdown -- For additional coverage click the link to the left.


It'll be interesting to see and hear Trump's response.

Of course, the RNC pulling their support for Trump essentially means "no RNC money." That shouldn't matter to Trump seeing as he's self-funding.

 

[oldsoul]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

Most, if not all, career politicians will put party ahead of country. To them, there is too much personal power to be lost. It's a sad testament to the current political climate we find ourselves in today. However, this is but a symptom of the greater problem, that being that a large portion of voters, ehem citizens, are simply "too busy" or "just don't care anymore" or are simply too lazy to hold these people accountable. They (the politicians) will continue to pander to demographics, and we will continue to buy their lies, then complain that they lied, only to re-elect them yet again. It's a vicious cycle with no real end in sight. I just hope I can check out of society (go off grid, way, way off. Somewhere far beyond the end of the road) before it gets too crazy.

 

[320 Years of History]

...we will continue to buy their lies, then complain that they lied, only to re-elect them yet again...

Believe it or not, that phenomenon is what I find immensely more annoying than is that of the pols lying when it suits their need. I get that folks of marginal integrity will say or do almost anything (for some, anything, not almost anything) to advance their aims. That is despicable, no question about it. That voters don't overwhelmingly act so as to make clear to pols who do it "you will not be permitted to remain in your elected position" is, IMO, going to be "the death" of our nation. Voters have the power to not let this happen, yet voters let it happen.

 

[2aguy]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

No.....they should support him because he is the only one who can keep hilary from getting back into the White House.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Donald Trump doesn't have a freaking clue, he doesn't want to be president, he hasn't followed anyone's advice and he won't follow Preibus's advice, he'll continue to do as he damn well pleases. When he first announced he was running for potus I thought he was a Dem plant. I've come full circle and still think he's a Dem plant. ANYONE ELSE of the other 16 candidates would be on point, focused on clinton's corruption, pushing their plan, etc. It's corrupt slime ball hillary clinton with scandals out her ass and wikileaks leaking more everyday, she should be easy to beat ... and yet, Trump is handing her the presidency.

Fuck you people who nominated Trump. Seriously. Fuck. You.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

Most, if not all, career politicians will put party ahead of country. To them, there is too much personal power to be lost. It's a sad testament to the current political climate we find ourselves in today. However, this is but a symptom of the greater problem, that being that a large portion of voters, ehem citizens, are simply "too busy" or "just don't care anymore" or are simply too lazy to hold these people accountable. They (the politicians) will continue to pander to demographics, and we will continue to buy their lies, then complain that they lied, only to re-elect them yet again. It's a vicious cycle with no real end in sight. I just hope I can check out of society (go off grid, way, way off. Somewhere far beyond the end of the road) before it gets too crazy.

This simply didn't happen

 

[oldsoul]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

Most, if not all, career politicians will put party ahead of country. To them, there is too much personal power to be lost. It's a sad testament to the current political climate we find ourselves in today. However, this is but a symptom of the greater problem, that being that a large portion of voters, ehem citizens, are simply "too busy" or "just don't care anymore" or are simply too lazy to hold these people accountable. They (the politicians) will continue to pander to demographics, and we will continue to buy their lies, then complain that they lied, only to re-elect them yet again. It's a vicious cycle with no real end in sight. I just hope I can check out of society (go off grid, way, way off. Somewhere far beyond the end of the road) before it gets too crazy.

This simply didn't happen

???? What do you mean? What didn't happen?

 

[GaryDog]

I can't think of any reason to vote for Clinton, the Democrats, Trump or the Republicans. The only thing the Democrats have been able to put together is but, Trump.

How is that different from "But, Hillary".

 

[GaryDog]

Okay, so you like the idea of Trump as President or you don't. That is what it is, and what it is isn't the point of this thread. This thread is about how folks, Republicans, can say the scathing things they have, I have in mind Sen. McCain especially but singularly, yet continue to support the nominee.

Clearly some Republicans have decided Trump has gone too far and they won't support him. That makes sense to me. I certainly wouldn't support someone whom I think is an utter mess, regardless of whether I belong to the same party or not.

At some point, mustn't one put country ahead of party and politics? I mean really...No matter how bad one thinks Hillary Clinton may be for the U.S., even if her Presidency would mean another four years of "Obama-ism," at the very least, there is no chance she is going to accidentally piss off someone and thereby create the kind of turmoil that could lead to global conflict on the scale of WWI. Regardless of all else, the simple fact is that the U.S. needs a relatively peaceful world and Donald Trump isn't the sort of character to foment much peace....

"Psychic's" Sidebar :

It's not as though the "timing" isn't about right for another major U.S. war...War of 1812, "Banana Wars" and WWI...just saying...​

End of sidebar.

​

Chris Shays: Why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton

During the 34 years I served as a Republican elected official in Connecticut, 13 years in the State House of Representatives, and 21 years in Congress, I always voted for our Republican candidate for governor and our Republican candidate for president.

Always, but not this time. Donald Trump lost me a long time ago.

I know some want to stick it to the so-called establishment, reject the status quo, and they see Trump as their vehicle. And I know some Republicans dislike President Obama, and have such a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, they are willing to vote for a man they know does not have the temperament, knowledge or experience to be president.

In fact, I think many Republicans know Donald Trump could cause great damage to our country and the world at large, and still plan to vote for him. But not me. He represents practically everything I was taught not to be, and everything my wife and I taught our daughter not to be.

Clinton, the Democratic candidate for president, will be getting my vote, not reluctantly, but with a strong conviction that she will be a good president.

She has made some mistakes and I would love it if she had done some things differently. But this I know: Clinton does her homework, and she learns from her mistakes. She is smart, tough, highly knowledgeable and has shown she is genuinely willing to work with Republicans and anyone else to address the countless problems that confront our nation.

Clinton proved her worth in the Senate -- and her willingness to reach out to others. I saw this firsthand as a Republican congressman from New England, and more personally as chairman of the National Security Committee of the Government Oversight Committee.

My committee held one of the first hearings on the illnesses afflicting those who worked tirelessly at the twin towers site to find 9/11 survivors and clean it up. At the time, Republicans were in charge of the White House and Congress, and Clinton, who participated in our House hearing as the Democratic senator from New York, could have taken a very partisan position. Instead she chose to be an important part of the solution, which she definitely was.

As first lady, and more so as senator, being part of the solution was the kind of role she continually fulfilled.

To be completely candid, I have expressed my share of criticism over the years for the very person I intend to vote for. Some of that criticism was deserved, but again, being completely candid, some criticism was expressed more harshly than I wished, or knew was deserved. I have a sense I am not alone in this regard.

When I think of the numerous challenges confronting our nation, I want a president who is knowledgeable, experienced, articulate and tough. I want a president who knows the world and its leaders, the Congress and the White House, and has an innate understanding of the challenges facing everyday Americans.

And I want a president who will attract thoughtful and talented people to work in her administration, and who will continually seek the support of both Democrats and Republicans. By working with all Americans, Clinton will ensure the inspired efforts of our Founding Fathers -- who toiled unceasingly to create a Constitution designed to enable a diverse people, through the art of compromise, to find common ground -- were not in vain.

While no candidate is perfect and while nothing is certain, I am convinced that Hillary Clinton has what it takes to make our government truly work as our Founding Fathers intended. That is why as a Republican she has my strong support, and my vote this November.
​

Now I don't necessarily expect the Republicans who despise Trump's methods and themes to take to Mrs. Clinton as adamantly and with as glowingly complimentary language as has Chris Shays. I don't expect more than a simple statement saying that they can no longer in good conscience support Trump. But when folks make remarks as John McCain did last week and then say, "but I'm still supporting him," they fall a rung or three. That's really a shame for folks like Sen. McCain who, for all else, I heretofore perceived as a man of reasonably decent levels of integrity and as a man of somewhat strong principles. I didn't until recently have to wonder just how strong those principles are in light of Trump's remarks and methods apparently not transcending them. It's hard now to look at Mr. McCain as a man of principle, a man who cares about his country more than about his party's advancement.

Most, if not all, career politicians will put party ahead of country. To them, there is too much personal power to be lost. It's a sad testament to the current political climate we find ourselves in today. However, this is but a symptom of the greater problem, that being that a large portion of voters, ehem citizens, are simply "too busy" or "just don't care anymore" or are simply too lazy to hold these people accountable. They (the politicians) will continue to pander to demographics, and we will continue to buy their lies, then complain that they lied, only to re-elect them yet again. It's a vicious cycle with no real end in sight. I just hope I can check out of society (go off grid, way, way off. Somewhere far beyond the end of the road) before it gets too crazy.

This simply didn't happen

???? What do you mean? What didn't happen?

I think he has dementia.