CDZ Should prison guard unions be banned, to prevent the increase in for profit prisons?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    We've been developing special mental illness and drug offender courts, so they don't end up in the prison system.

    Right now, far too many mentally ill people end up in prison, where they are untreated and often abused. Corrections officers aren't equipt to deal with them. Guards Cut the Water and a Mentally Ill Prisoner Died of Dehydration. Now, They Could Face Charges.
     
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  2. Disir
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    Disir Gold Member

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    So, the Supreme Court said.

    There is something wrong in the prevention system.

    If you know that jobs reduce crime then reducing massive illegal immigration is beneficial.
    If you know that about 1/3 of the prison population is mentally ill--psychotic-- then mental health and medication is beneficial and should have been acquired before they even came to the system. Instead this is most often the first time they receive treatment.
    If you know that an education can make all the difference in the world in many cases then you focus on that. That means that you take a hard look at where the education system is at and why they bounce kids before testing time.
    If you know that the individual you are dealing with will without a doubt go out and commit another crime when released then serving the full sentence is worth it. Before the next 3 year old is shot in the head playing outside.
    If you know that the mentally ill person will hit the outside and not have access to mental health and medication then might want to get that rolling.
    If you know that ankle monitors aren't going to be monitored then do not release offenders. If your city or state has hired a company to do that monitoring and the inmate cannot or will not pay the fees and that company cancels that "service" then it's time to rethink the plan.
    Prevention.
    Society seems to have this magic wand thing going on. They want a group of people to repair generational physical and sexual abuse, teach coping skills, fix mental illness, put them on the path to recovery and BAM........you are healed. Go forth and sin no more. AND considering they are forced to be in one place it is almost possible but......you would need funding.

    The reality is all of those services and programs don't exist on the outside and what does exist is inadequate. Because there is no established criteria or it's vague enough that it is pointless..........but those black tie balls are fun and people can pat themselves on the back, give touching speeches.
     
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  3. miketx
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    miketx Gold Member

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    Something is not kosher here.When I worked seg we routinely cut off water from convicts who were out of control. However the procedure for it was it was to be turned on every hour for 5 minutes and then back off. Plus they got three meals a day with a drink. So in my case the water restriction allowed the pos ample opportunities to refill his toilet and sling urine and feces at you. Don't believe all the crap you read in rags about things like this.
     
  4. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    I think it depends on the jail/prison doesn't it? You have an interesting insight into it - having to work it :)
     
  5. miketx
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    miketx Gold Member

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    No. There are no policy where denying food or water causing death is allowed in any US prison. Procedures are in place with major oversight to prevent these kinds of things. For it to happen, The warden would have to look the other way, the asst. warden would have to look the other way. The Major would have to look the other way, the captain, Lt's, sgts and all shift duty officers and medical staff would have to look the other way. Plus the convicts would all have to look the other way. All of the above staff are required to tour seg multiple times a day. SOMEONE would have noticed. Medical staff is required to visit each cell several times a day, with different staff. If I were to find an unresponsive offender during one of my mandatory 30 minute walk throughs, I have to call for assistance immediately. If I did not, the next supervisor through would see it and call. Like I say, there's something rotten in this article.

    If you want to believe this, by all means go ahead. But the reality of the treatment of offenders is not as bad as many uneducated and un-experienced want to believe.

    If I had caught something like this, I would have ratted it out immediately and so would many of the other staff I worked with at the officer level. We weren't all simple mined yokels chewing hayseed.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  6. miketx
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    miketx Gold Member

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    The number one job of a corrections officer is to make sure the offender is safe during his or her incarceration.
     
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  7. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    What if they were extremely understaffed? That is a chronic problem in some prisons isn't it? Could something have slipped through? One thing the article noted is that the prisoner might not have been able to make his needs known - that he was in the throes of a breakdown. Someone who is in a psychotic condition might not be able to communicate well. IMO - mentally ill individuals like that do not belong in the prison system - but should be shunted into a secure hospital facility.
     
  8. Disir
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    Disir Gold Member

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    They were understaffed that night. They have been understaffed for quite awhile. Clarke went on a hiring spree. It's a pretty high turnover rate. You can't just hire them and train them.......... they have to stay. It's a jail not a prison.

    The Lt. gave the order to shut the water off until he calmed down. She called the other two COs and they reported he was fine. She was the only Lt on floors 1-6. She did not return to see him and took the COs word. There were two other mentally ill inmates that she was contending with. She did not document it. Now, if she was busy she could have documented 30 different incidents but forgot to document that one. The other two did not document it either. Had that documentation been there then the next shift would have seen it.

    We don't know because none of the articles I have come across provided that information.

    There was something to do with the keys and it was enough for them to change policy.

    I have never lived or worked in Milwaukee but if it is like the rest of the nation then the hospitals will not accept him.The guy shot someone and then went to a casino and fired a couple rounds there.
     
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  9. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    The mentally ill belong in mental hospitals not prisons.

    MikeTx, and all security prison personnel, have an awful job. The environment is terrible, the pay is not worth it (and I have no idea about benefitis), but the fact is our society has permitted our LEO to be the first line of interaction far too often with the mentally ill. With the profession and infrastructure set up as it is, where else are they going to go?
     
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  10. miketx
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    miketx Gold Member

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    Yeah, it is possible they were extremely understaffed. But day shift has all the admin on shift. If all of these people did not catch it, then something would have to be TERRIBLY wrong. The oversight is staggering! They have video, signed written ledgers, plus, the convicts. Believe it or not the convicts are a form of oversight. If someone is in danger from staff in a cell they will raise hell.

    In the seg I worked in everyone who came in had to sign in and out with the times. I had to verify their ID's even if I knew who they were. People I did not recognize were not admitted. Auditors come in about every six months and pour over all the paperwork and ledgers trying to find find stuff wrong.
     
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