Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

[HUGGY]

The current government of Isreal is not very diplomatic

it's israel...

i've personally corrected you before.

I prefer to spell it F-u-c-k-i-n-g J-e-w A-s-s-h-o-l-e-s

 

[Kalam]

You're only embarrassing yourself by implying that I'm a supporter of terrorism. I support the people of Gaza and haven't expressed anything but contempt for Hamas, etc. Why are you being such a dick about that all of a sudden?

Why because you started out as having an objective view

My views haven't changed. You're deluding yourself.

and then slowly but surely moved over to the mainstream Muslim view of hate all the Jews,

Prove that I "hate all Jews" or shut the fuck up. I assumed that you were above ignorant bullshit like that, but I was obviously wrong.

 

[GHook93]

But your suggestion is nothing different than the FACT that the vast majority of Arab/Muslim immigrants came over to Israel/Palestine in the last 1800s and a very large chunk came over during the unrestricted British Mandate White Pages Days!

You can't rely on the Turks, because they didn't keep or take any records.
You can't rely on the Arabs (Palestinians), because they are going to over-inflate the numbers. They have huge incentive to lie about the numbers!
You can't rely on the Jews, because they have the opposite incentive to way devalue the numbers.

However, you can rely on an independent third party and one of the most respected writers of all time, who had a first hand account of the population and area in the 1860s Palestine/Israel.


Kreplach: MARK TWAIN ON PALESTINE IN 1867

MARK TWAIN ON PALESTINE IN 1867

"Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse
that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Where Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now floods the plain, in whose bitter waters no living thing exists -- over whose waveless surface the blistering air hangs motionless and dead -- about
whose borders nothing grows but weeds, and scattering tufts of cane, and that treacherous fruit that promises refreshment to parching lips, but turns to ashes at the touch. Nazareth is forlorn; about that ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins of the desert; Jericho the accursed, lies a moldering ruin, to-day, even as
Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago; Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the leader's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by
night, and where the angels sang Peace on earth, good will to men, is untenanted by any living creature, and unblessed by any feature that is pleasant to the eye. Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a pauper village; the riches of Solomon are no longer there to compel the admiration of visiting Oriental queens; the wonderful temple which was the pride and the glory of Israel, is gone, and the Ottoman crescent is lifted above the spot where, on that most memorable day in the annals of the world, they reared the holy cross. The noted Sea of Galilee, where Roman
fleets once rode at anchor and the disciples of the leader sailed in their ships, was long ago deserted by the devotees of war and commerce, and its borders are a silent wilderness; Capernaum is a shapeless ruin; Magdala is
the home of beggared Arabs; Bethsaida and Chorazin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round about them where thousands of men once listened to the leader's voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and
skulking foxes. Palestine is desolate and unlovely. And why should it be otherwise? Can the curse of the Deity beautify a land? "

How about some Westerns first hand accounts!

Zionist Impact on Palestine

In the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, a litany of Christian travelers - Siebald Rieter and Johann Tucker, Arnold Van Harff and Father Michael Nuad, Martin Kabatnik and Felix Fabri, Count Constantine Francois Volney and Alphonse de Lamartine, Mark Twain and Sir George Gawler, Sir George Adam Smith and Edward Robinson - found Palestine virtually empty, except for Jewish communities in Jerusalem, Safed, Shechem, Hebron, Gaza, Ramleh, Acre, Sidon, Tyre, Haifa, Irsuf, Caesarea, and El Arish, and throughout Galilee towns - Kfar Alma, Ein Zeitim, Biria, Pekiin, Kfar Hanania, Kfar Kana and Kfar Yassif. To stay, these Jews had submitted to innumerable conquerors, taxes, pogroms and degradation. But they stayed. In 1799, Palestine was still so much in need of people that Napoleon Bonaparte championed a full-scale return of Jews.

In the early 19th century, Palestine was a backward, neglected province of the Ottoman Empire. Travelers to Palestine from the Western world left records of what they saw there. The theme throughout their reports is dismal: The land was empty, neglected, abandoned, desolate, fallen into ruins.

In Jerusalem, all reports and journals of travelers, pilgrims and government representatives during these years, repeatedly record the poverty, filth and neglect and the desolate nature of the countryside. Early photographs show lepers in rags and dilapidated buildings. Jerusalem was surrounded by marauding bands of Bedouin Arabs and had to close her gates at nightfall and reopen them at first light, a practice that was similar in Biblical times.

Some quotes from the writings of these visitors before modern times:

Nothing there [Jerusalem] to be seen but a little of the old walls which is yet remaining and all the rest is grass, moss and weeds. [English pilgrim in 1590]


The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is of a body of population. [British consul in 1857]


There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent [valley of Jezreel] -- not for 30 miles in either direction... One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. ... For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee ... Nazareth is forlorn ... Jericho lies a moldering ruin ... Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds ... a silent, mournful expanse ... a desolation ... We never saw a human being on the whole route ... Hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil had almost deserted the country ... Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery Palestine must be the prince. The hills barren and dull, the valleys unsightly deserts [inhabited by] swarms of beggars with ghastly sores and malformations. Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes ... desolate and unlovely ... [Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad, 1867]
Remarkably, there are photographs dating to the 19th century and early 20th century that document the development of Palestine from the desolate, pre-Zionist landscape reported by travelers to the green and productive land that Jewish immigrants created there. This web site has 460 photographs and lithographs of the period, some never before available to the public. They show how the industrious Zionists made the lightly-populated land productive and able to support the great increases in Jewish and Arab numbers that came to Palestine in the following decades.

Winston Churchill was British Colonial Secretary when he visited the Middle East in the winter of 1920-1921. Anti-Semitic elements in the British government tried to assert that the Jews were not needed to develop Palestine. Churchill replied:

Left to themselves, the Arabs of Palestine would not in a thousand years have taken effective steps towards the irrigation and electrification of Palestine. They would have been quite content to dwell—a handful of philosophic people—in wasted sun-drenched plains, letting the waters of the Jordan flow unbridled and unharnessed into the Dead Sea."
In 1924, a few months after becoming Commissioner of the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, Elwood Mead (namesake of Lake Mead behind Hoover Dam) published a highly favorable review of Jewish settlements in Palestine based on his visits there in 1923. His article, "New Palestine," praised the Zionists accomplishments and plans, a publicity coup. Mead blamed Islam, Ottoman governance, and Arab culture for the demise of Roman irrigation systems that, according to Mead, once supported "lands flowing with milk and honey." Mead was a consultant to Chiam Weizman offering his expertise to maximize the return on investment of the extensive investments in irrigation, land reclamation, and water supplies in the Zionist areas based on Mead's extensive experience in the American West.

After the Arab riots in 1929, Mead wrote to the British High Commissioner that Jewish colonists had produced "a marvelous transformation" in the Palestinian landscape. Mead noted that in his visits to Palestine he had seen nothing "to indicate that the Arab was injured." Moreover, the Jewish example of "what modern finance and equipment can do, coupled with the sympathetic interest of the government is bringing him out of the hopeless inertia that misgovernment and oppression of centuries past have created .... " Jewish settlers in Palestine were not only reclaiming the land, they were elevating living standards for the Arab population and assisting the British government.

In his report to the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Transjordan for the year 1925, the British High Commissioner wrote:

Fuel-power stations for the generation of electrical light and energy have been established at Haifa and Tiberias by the [Jewish] Palestine Electric Corporation, Limited. This increase in commercial activity, in building enterprise and new industrial developments is due almost entirely to Jewish capital and the entry during the year of an immigrant class with money to invest.
During this period a significant shift of population took place as Arabs and others from all over the Middle East moved to the areas of Zionist cultivation and development. The organizational and technical skills of the Jewish settlers, their access to outside capital, and their sheer hard work created an economic boom that created opportunity for Arab workers, particularly in contrast to the stagnant conditions elsewhere in the region. This has been documented by many, following the much-criticized but basically sound work of Joan Peters in her book From Time Immemorial: The Origins of the Arab–Jewish Conflict Over Palestine. The central findings are that:

As far back as 1893, the Jews not only were already far from being a small minority in the areas where they had settled, but were the largest single group there (if one divides the non-Jewish population into Muslim and Christian), and

Substantial immigration of Arabs to Palestine took place during the first half of the twentieth century; from 1893 to 1947 while the Palestinian Arab population slightly more than doubled in areas where no Jews were settled, it quintupled in the main areas of Jewish settlement.

 

[Kalam]

However, you can rely on an independent third party and one of the most respected writers of all time,

I can rely on him to write novels, but basing your contentious claims regarding 19th century demographic trends on Mark Twain's personal observations is ridiculous. You cannot honestly believe that what you posted is sufficient. I suggest you read this article: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

Plus, I'm more interested in seeing you prove that I "hate Jews." How's that coming?

 

[Godboy]

Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

 

[GHook93]

Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

Next to the US, the West Bank and Gaza are Israel's biggest trading partners. Cutting off Gaza would harm the Israeli economy!

 

[hipeter924]

Why deny building them? After all. Its not like Islamic terrorists can do much about it.

 

[Gurdari]

(Never mind the fact that Hamas said repeatedly the future was a 2-state solution)

If you want an honest conversation then don't repeat outright lies you disingenious piece of shit!

Yikes. So, why not post the same hard data and clean logic that lead you to your own truthful, ingenious point of view?
Or make sense. Whichever.

Outright lies? Consume some media - do some research, find out for yourself, don't take my word for it.

 

[Gurdari]

Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

 

[GHook93]

Outright lies? Consume some media - do some research, find out for yourself, don't take my word for it.

I have and that is why I am able to call you with a start face a disingenious liar!

 

[GHook93]

Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

They could also listen to you leftist cowards and lay down and die like the good little Jews they are! They could also not respond to over a year of missile attacks! They could also not respond to suicide bombings!. See what stopped the suicide bombing was the protective wall. Yet arrogant leftist like yourself will denounce the wall even though it has all but stopped suicide bombers!

 

[HUGGY]

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

They could also listen to you leftist cowards and lay down and die like the good little Jews they are! They could also not respond to over a year of missile attacks! They could also not respond to suicide bombings!. See what stopped the suicide bombing was the protective wall. Yet arrogant leftist like yourself will denounce the wall even though it has all but stopped suicide bombers!

I think the palistinians would do well to sneak into america and blow up the jews that influence the U S to support the aparthied Jewish state. Without our support the jews would crumble like the cowards they are. And ghook you know what I mean don't you sorry little bitch.

 

[Shogun]

Clearly, the only people who shouldn't be held in concentration camps are jews. Everyone else should just deal with it.


*sigh*


the irony of zionism marches on in kosher jackboot glory.

 

[hipeter924]

Should Israel deny building materials from Gaza?

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

The Palestinians could obey international law by not launching rockets into Israel and facing the facts that they can either be part of Israel and accept its values or be pushed out altogether.

 

[Shogun]

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

The Palestinians could obey international law by not launching rockets into Israel and facing the facts that they can either be part of Israel and accept its values or be pushed out altogether.

ahh yes.. the tipping point of manifest destiny. Thankfully, when a handful of arabs launch rockets they are all, as a collective population, responsible. Good thing we apply that same logic here in an ACTUAL western nation! After all, if only blacks would collectively stop robbing liquor stores then we wouldn't have to maintain segregation, eh? Oh wait..

 

[hipeter924]

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

The Palestinians could obey international law by not launching rockets into Israel and facing the facts that they can either be part of Israel and accept its values or be pushed out altogether.

ahh yes.. the tipping point of manifest destiny. Thankfully, when a handful of arabs launch rockets they are all, as a collective population, responsible. Good thing we apply that same logic here in an ACTUAL western nation! After all, if only blacks would collectively stop robbing liquor stores then we wouldn't have to maintain segregation, eh? Oh wait..

No as a collective the Palestinians are not responsible but they are responsible for the government they democratically elect. To not suggest this would be to claim that Hamas does not fairly represent its people. Thus you are in a paradox.

You can claim the series of events that led to the creation of the Israel are evil or immoral if you wish...though I disagree with those two accusations.

In the end Israel has control not the Palestinians, the Arabs cannot wipe out Israel they have no nuclear weapons (and Iran will never get them...Israel and the United States will see to that) and Israel has more than enough to insure its own defence.

The Palestinians are at the mercy of Israel...the more violence you cause to Israel the less the leftists in Israel can help the Palestinians...Palestinians are the enemy...until they stop the violence...because how can even leftists support people that seek to destroy them.

In the end Palestinian resistance as it is called is worthless and only leads to more suffering of the Palestinian people. Face it you lost, and there is no way you can bring the world you desire for the Palestinians into reality...however there is a choice for Palestinians to put down their weapons and make peace...yet you still hold onto the fantasy of a Palestinian state that wipes out Israel.

You have two choices. The extremists and terrorists on the Palestinian side can see reason and surrender or they will be simply pushed out of Israel. You can only choose one...you can't choose both. Personally the first option is best. Oops I am sorry you want the jihad option...don't tell anyone about the 1960s

 

[José]

Origianally posted by hipeter924
No as a collective the Palestinians are not responsible but they are responsible for the government they democratically elect. To not suggest this would be to claim that Hamas does not fairly represent its people. Thus you are in a paradox.

You can claim the series of events that led to the creation of the Israel are evil or immoral if you wish...though I disagree with those two accusations.

In the end Israel has control not the Palestinians, the Arabs cannot wipe out Israel they have no nuclear weapons (and Iran will never get them...Israel and the United States will see to that) and Israel has more than enough to insure its own defence.

The Palestinians are at the mercy of Israel...the more violence you cause to Israel the less the leftists in Israel can help the Palestinians...Palestinians are the enemy...until they stop the violence...because how can even leftists support people that seek to destroy them.

In the end Palestinian resistance as it is called is worthless and only leads to more suffering of the Palestinian people. Face it you lost, and there is no way you can bring the world you desire for the Palestinians into reality...however there is a choice for Palestinians to put down their weapons and make peace...yet you still hold onto the fantasy of a Palestinian state that wipes out Israel.

You have two choices. The extremists and terrorists on the Palestinian side can see reason and surrender or they will be simply pushed out of Israel. You can only choose one...you can't choose both. Personally the first option is best. Oops I am sorry you want the jihad option...don't tell anyone about the 1960s.

You're missing the whole point, kiwi.

Even a mentally retarded palestinian oyster knows the pathetic firecrackers palestinians launch against Israel, in and of themselves, can't do anything to hasten the dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship.

But the sad spectacle of palestinians being killed like cattle by american military hardware in their fight against the jewish supremacist state led a whole generation of young arabs and specially an egyptian student known as Mohamed Atta to harbor a deep, bitter resentment against the US.

So take it from me... enraged arabs turning thousands of american civilians into worm food will play a much more significant role in the process of international isolation and eventual dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship than any kassam rocketeer could ever dream of.

 

[DiveCon]

Origianally posted by hipeter924
No as a collective the Palestinians are not responsible but they are responsible for the government they democratically elect. To not suggest this would be to claim that Hamas does not fairly represent its people. Thus you are in a paradox.

You can claim the series of events that led to the creation of the Israel are evil or immoral if you wish...though I disagree with those two accusations.

In the end Israel has control not the Palestinians, the Arabs cannot wipe out Israel they have no nuclear weapons (and Iran will never get them...Israel and the United States will see to that) and Israel has more than enough to insure its own defence.

The Palestinians are at the mercy of Israel...the more violence you cause to Israel the less the leftists in Israel can help the Palestinians...Palestinians are the enemy...until they stop the violence...because how can even leftists support people that seek to destroy them.

In the end Palestinian resistance as it is called is worthless and only leads to more suffering of the Palestinian people. Face it you lost, and there is no way you can bring the world you desire for the Palestinians into reality...however there is a choice for Palestinians to put down their weapons and make peace...yet you still hold onto the fantasy of a Palestinian state that wipes out Israel.

You have two choices. The extremists and terrorists on the Palestinian side can see reason and surrender or they will be simply pushed out of Israel. You can only choose one...you can't choose both. Personally the first option is best. Oops I am sorry you want the jihad option...don't tell anyone about the 1960s.

You're missing the whole point, kiwi.

Even a mentally retarded palestinian oyster knows the pathetic firecrackers palestinians launch against Israel, in and of themselves, can't do anything to hasten the dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship.

But the sad spectacle of palestinians being killed like cattle by american military hardware in their fight against the jewish supremacist state led a whole generation of young arabs and specially an egyptian student known as Mohamed Atta to harbor a deep, bitter resentment against the US.

So take it from me... enraged arabs turning thousands of american civilians into worm food will play a much more significant role in the process of international isolation and eventual dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship than any kassam rocketeer could ever dream of.

so i guess you wouldnt have a problem with thousands of them landing in your backyard
right
they are harmless

 

[hipeter924]

Origianally posted by hipeter924
No as a collective the Palestinians are not responsible but they are responsible for the government they democratically elect. To not suggest this would be to claim that Hamas does not fairly represent its people. Thus you are in a paradox.

You can claim the series of events that led to the creation of the Israel are evil or immoral if you wish...though I disagree with those two accusations.

In the end Israel has control not the Palestinians, the Arabs cannot wipe out Israel they have no nuclear weapons (and Iran will never get them...Israel and the United States will see to that) and Israel has more than enough to insure its own defence.

The Palestinians are at the mercy of Israel...the more violence you cause to Israel the less the leftists in Israel can help the Palestinians...Palestinians are the enemy...until they stop the violence...because how can even leftists support people that seek to destroy them.

In the end Palestinian resistance as it is called is worthless and only leads to more suffering of the Palestinian people. Face it you lost, and there is no way you can bring the world you desire for the Palestinians into reality...however there is a choice for Palestinians to put down their weapons and make peace...yet you still hold onto the fantasy of a Palestinian state that wipes out Israel.

You have two choices. The extremists and terrorists on the Palestinian side can see reason and surrender or they will be simply pushed out of Israel. You can only choose one...you can't choose both. Personally the first option is best. Oops I am sorry you want the jihad option...don't tell anyone about the 1960s.

You're missing the whole point, kiwi.

Even a mentally retarded palestinian oyster knows the pathetic firecrackers palestinians launch against Israel, in and of themselves, can't do anything to hasten the dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship.

But the sad spectacle of palestinians being killed like cattle by american military hardware in their fight against the jewish supremacist state led a whole generation of young arabs and specially an egyptian student known as Mohamed Atta to harbor a deep, bitter resentment against the US.

So take it from me... enraged arabs turning thousands of american civilians into worm food will play a much more significant role in the process of international isolation and eventual dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship than any kassam rocketeer could ever dream of.

so i guess you wouldnt have a problem with thousands of them landing in your backyard
right
they are harmless

José doesn't know reason Divecon. He/she still believes that the Palestinians can conquer Israel.

 

[HUGGY]

Israel shouldnt give them anything at all, because they are enemies. They shouldnt send gas, food, water, clothing, electricity, medicine, building materials, etc....nothing at all.

They could obey international law, and stop killing/bulldozing... that isn't exactly 'help' but it would help...

They could also listen to you leftist cowards and lay down and die like the good little Jews they are! They could also not respond to over a year of missile attacks! They could also not respond to suicide bombings!. See what stopped the suicide bombing was the protective wall. Yet arrogant leftist like yourself will denounce the wall even though it has all but stopped suicide bombers!

They could also listen to you leftist cowards and lay down and die like the good little Jews they are!

Well they do have experience at that.