Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergencies.

[Harry Dresden]

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it? Ask Xotoxi; he got it.

More like your stupidity is a waste of my time.

And yet you post this message instead of putting me on ignore.

your the ignore Queen....MM is not a coward....putting people on ignore is kinda pussyish...

 

[Chris]

For a libertarian, the answer to your question is an unqualified "yes." (Says a lot about them, doesn't it?)

Yes it does. It's pretty sick.

True story. When I was 21 years old, my fiance at the time got pregnant (shortly before we had already planned to get married). It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were fine with it, as we'd already been planning on getting married ~5 months from when we received the news.

At that time, I was an assistant manager at Best Buy, making very little money w/ no health insurance (they didn't provide, and I couldn't pay). My finance was a receptionist for a small law firm (not much pay and no health insurance). ~2 months into her pregnancy I was in the living room when I heard a thud in the bathroom.

I ran in and found her laying in the shower, she was about to get in and had passed out. I took her in the room and layed her down. She had never passed out before, and didn't know what was going on. She said she had a pain in her lower digestive track, and she was looking fairly pale.

I jumped on the good old Mayo family health CD on my computer and started looking up some thing. I concluded from the symptoms and what was going on that she may have an ectopic pregnancy. I carried her to my car and to the emergency room and told the nurses that she had fainted and that she was pregnant and I feared she may have an ectopic pregnancy.

They looked at my really strange, but they saw how white she looked, and they quickly rushed her in and gave her an ultra sound which confirmed what I said. Without hesitation the quickly got a hold of a doctor and preped her for emergency surgery. It appears as though her fallopian tube had burst and she was internally bleeding to death.

They operated on her, removed one of her tubes, and the operating doctor told me that if she had gotten in perhaps 30 minutes later she would have died. Well, over 21k later the government paying for all of her treatment was appreciated. There's no way that based on our salaries and any kind of interest on a loan like that, that we'd be able to repay that any time soon.

And if they didn't have that service, she would have died...

So not having these kinds of services in place, is that what our good Christian nature tells us is morally correct?

Yes, taking care of the sick is morally correct.

That is why the right is morally bankrupt.

 

[elvis]

For a libertarian, the answer to your question is an unqualified "yes." (Says a lot about them, doesn't it?)

Yes it does. It's pretty sick.

True story. When I was 21 years old, my fiance at the time got pregnant (shortly before we had already planned to get married). It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were fine with it, as we'd already been planning on getting married ~5 months from when we received the news.

At that time, I was an assistant manager at Best Buy, making very little money w/ no health insurance (they didn't provide, and I couldn't pay). My finance was a receptionist for a small law firm (not much pay and no health insurance). ~2 months into her pregnancy I was in the living room when I heard a thud in the bathroom.

I ran in and found her laying in the shower, she was about to get in and had passed out. I took her in the room and layed her down. She had never passed out before, and didn't know what was going on. She said she had a pain in her lower digestive track, and she was looking fairly pale.

I jumped on the good old Mayo family health CD on my computer and started looking up some thing. I concluded from the symptoms and what was going on that she may have an ectopic pregnancy. I carried her to my car and to the emergency room and told the nurses that she had fainted and that she was pregnant and I feared she may have an ectopic pregnancy.

They looked at my really strange, but they saw how white she looked, and they quickly rushed her in and gave her an ultra sound which confirmed what I said. Without hesitation the quickly got a hold of a doctor and preped her for emergency surgery. It appears as though her fallopian tube had burst and she was internally bleeding to death.

They operated on her, removed one of her tubes, and the operating doctor told me that if she had gotten in perhaps 30 minutes later she would have died. Well, over 21k later the government paying for all of her treatment was appreciated. There's no way that based on our salaries and any kind of interest on a loan like that, that we'd be able to repay that any time soon.

And if they didn't have that service, she would have died...

So not having these kinds of services in place, is that what our good Christian nature tells us is morally correct?

Yes, taking care of the sick is morally correct.

That is why the right is morally bankrupt.

YOU are mentally bankrupt.

 

[Nik]

Yes it does. It's pretty sick.

True story. When I was 21 years old, my fiance at the time got pregnant (shortly before we had already planned to get married). It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were fine with it, as we'd already been planning on getting married ~5 months from when we received the news.

At that time, I was an assistant manager at Best Buy, making very little money w/ no health insurance (they didn't provide, and I couldn't pay). My finance was a receptionist for a small law firm (not much pay and no health insurance). ~2 months into her pregnancy I was in the living room when I heard a thud in the bathroom.

I ran in and found her laying in the shower, she was about to get in and had passed out. I took her in the room and layed her down. She had never passed out before, and didn't know what was going on. She said she had a pain in her lower digestive track, and she was looking fairly pale.

I jumped on the good old Mayo family health CD on my computer and started looking up some thing. I concluded from the symptoms and what was going on that she may have an ectopic pregnancy. I carried her to my car and to the emergency room and told the nurses that she had fainted and that she was pregnant and I feared she may have an ectopic pregnancy.

They looked at my really strange, but they saw how white she looked, and they quickly rushed her in and gave her an ultra sound which confirmed what I said. Without hesitation the quickly got a hold of a doctor and preped her for emergency surgery. It appears as though her fallopian tube had burst and she was internally bleeding to death.

They operated on her, removed one of her tubes, and the operating doctor told me that if she had gotten in perhaps 30 minutes later she would have died. Well, over 21k later the government paying for all of her treatment was appreciated. There's no way that based on our salaries and any kind of interest on a loan like that, that we'd be able to repay that any time soon.

And if they didn't have that service, she would have died...

So not having these kinds of services in place, is that what our good Christian nature tells us is morally correct?

Yes, taking care of the sick is morally correct.

That is why the right is morally bankrupt.

YOU are mentally bankrupt.

Oh you go girl!

 

[Neser Boha]

well even a foreign tourist pays sales tax on purchases.....but if your living here and working....and you wanna take something out of the pot....then you have to put something back in...and im talking when you get paid....you pay taxes.....and of course if your unemployed....you should have some kind of a temporary i dont have to pay into the pot untill i get a job status....

Lots of illegals commit social security fraud and get a SS# when they get employment. This means that they are paying into the pot, but they rarely take out because of limitations on government services they can receive, and usually they are too scared/don't have a desire to draw SS here when they get old.

well then they are breaking the law Nik....if they dont want to go through the channels and do things legit....like apply for citizenship....which i agree should be a faster process....then perhaps they should not be here....in Mexico (and hundreds of other countries) this kind of shenanigans would not be tolerated.....

Ok, well they still have the right to receive emergency medical care - just like anyone else. Is that fact hard to swallow for you? Maybe you should go stand in front of an emergency room and look those people in the eyes and tell them that you don't think they should be receiving any care... you can also physically try to bar them from entering. Which will land you in a prison.

Sheesh...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ok, well they still have the right to receive emergency medical care - just like anyone else. Is that fact hard to swallow for you? Maybe you should go stand in front of an emergency room and look those people in the eyes and tell them that you don't think they should be receiving any care... you can also physically try to bar them from entering. Which will land you in a prison.

Sheesh...

and when Nessa have i said they should not receive Emergency Medical Care?.....and with my folkes i have been at an emergency rooms plenty of times before they passed....AND the ER nurses told us repeatedly that 90% of those out there are here because their kids are not feeling well.....NO emergencies with them....so get your shit straight....

 

[Diuretic]

This is interesting and I've tried to keep up with it. It looks like the first post has caused some difficulty but that's good because that's how we learn things.

I've had a read and it seems to me that there are several points being made from the side that argues that health care is a private, personal matter. Correct me if I'm wrong please:

1.Hospitals should run on a for profit basis
2.People should pay for their own health care
3.Government shouldn't pay for health care of people who can't afford it

 

[Againsheila]

Healthcare is a basic human need but that doesn't meant that healthcare payed for out of the pocket of someone else is a basic right. I don't have the right to hold a gun to your head and make you pay for my daughter's operation (assuming she needed one) so why should the gov't be able to do it? It's stealing from Peter to pay Paul no matter how you slice it but for some reason when the government does it to everyone people seem to think it's o.k.

No a hospital should not be allowed to turn away those that need care (I work in surgery I'd quit instantly if I found out my hospital was doing this) but needing care doesn't negate your responsibility to pay for that care. Most hospitals are more than willing to make some sort of arrangement with patients and most have charity programs as well to help those that are truly indigent. Considering how many people simply skip out on their bills they are generally happy to be getting SOMETHING instead of nothing.

I agree, hospitals shouldn't be able to turn away those in need, I also believe however, that if the person is here illegally, they should be given emergency care only, and then shipped back to whatever country they came from.

 

[Luissa]

Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergencies.

Yes. And whoever passed a law stating otherwise should be required to pay for their care.

you are already paying for their care. What do you think hospitals do when they have unpaid medical bills? They raise the cost of medical treatement.

 

[Care4all]

Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergencies.

Yes. And whoever passed a law stating otherwise should be required to pay for their care.

you are already paying for their care. What do you think hospitals do when they have unpaid medical bills? They raise the cost of medical treatement.

YEP, same with any for profit or even non profit business, they raise their price to cover losses...ie: in retail, you would price in to the product your projected theft....

 

[manu1959]

so if i am homless and penniless and don't have food stamps.....i can get a free meal at a restaurant right.....

 

[Diuretic]

so if i am homless and penniless and don't have food stamps.....i can get a free meal at a restaurant right.....

How about - "so if I am homeless and penniless and don't have good stamps...I can starve to death right?"

 

[Care4all]

ohhh this ''It is a private business crap is bull'', can Mattel sell toys with poisonous lead in them that can kill children just because they are a private business, and they didn't manufacture the poisonous toys themselves, China did?

IS or was it okay that the goodyear tires on the ford exployers were exploding and killing people just because those companies were private businesses?

the ''business'' of hospitals, is to SAVE people's lives, make them well again...they knew this mission, before they began their business, they knew there would always be some unfortunate souls who could not afford the treatment their mission and hospital provides....and yes, this is priced in to their product sold to others.

OF COURSE those that come in to the emergency room are going to be treated for their emergency, without an insurance card....

i would want to be, without needing my insurance card on hand!!

it would be inhumane not to treat people for the emergency at hand FIRST.

 

[Care4all]

so if i am homless and penniless and don't have food stamps.....i can get a free meal at a restaurant right.....

if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!

not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.

Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)



care

 

[alan1]

Too bad you're the only one who thinks it's valuable.

I've been repped a few times for my posts on this thread. How 'bout you?

Anyone can get repped for saying something asinine if they've kissed enough butts over the years.

I've only been here for a few months, dumbass, and I don't butt kiss.

 

[alan1]

so if i am homless and penniless and don't have food stamps.....i can get a free meal at a restaurant right.....

if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!

not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.

Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)



care

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?

 

[Chris]

so if i am homless and penniless and don't have food stamps.....i can get a free meal at a restaurant right.....

if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!

not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.

Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)



care

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?

Isn't there a passage in the Bible that says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

 

[alan1]

if starving and hungry...you can pick food from a farmers field to eat it and it was NOT considered theft according to the Bible/God!

not certain on restaurants or eating a fruit in a supermarket if starving, that you could not afford? But if the passage about starving and eating from a "farmer's field" can be translated in to these other circumstances, I would imagine under God's laws, not US Law, eating the fruit in the supermarket or ordering a meal that you know you will not be able to pay for in a restaurant if you are basically starving, is not a crime.

Somehow, our Nation made of Christians and others that are religious, have lost their way...I'm afraid they are 'waxed over cold' as the Bible predicts in prophesy....(they suffer from the me, me, me syndrome and the 'love of money' above people.)



care

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?

Isn't there a passage in the Bible that says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Probably so, the bible is full of contradictions. I was just pointing out the irony of Care's argument.

 

[Chris]

Isn't there a passage in the bible that says to follow the laws of the land?

Isn't there a passage in the Bible that says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Probably so, the bible is full of contradictions. I was just pointing out the irony of Care's argument.

But didn't Jesus say, love your neighbor as yourself?

 

[alan1]

Isn't there a passage in the Bible that says, do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Probably so, the bible is full of contradictions. I was just pointing out the irony of Care's argument.

But didn't Jesus say, love your neighbor as yourself?

If you want to turn this into a biblical debate, we can talk about about polygamy, revenge, selling daughters, slavery, incest, and all sorts of other things the bible promotes. I merely pointed out how Care's argument based upon a biblical passage was worthless.