Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergencies.

[Emma]

My grandparents came from Europe - LEGALLY, as I suspect most of ours did.

In what year?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sorry, they are not eating up more tax dollars than they contribute. They contribute a lot.

And when you get down to it, we are all illegal immigrants except for the Native Americans.

get them to start paying taxes on the money they earn....THEN they are adding to the pot they take from....

I suspect a LOT of them do.

The exceptions will be those ad hoc jobs that they pick up as homeowers and fly-by-night contractors hire them on the cheap.

I want the illegals out, too.

But I suspect that most of them who work at legitimate businesses pay taxes, just like most of us do.

if they are illegals were did they get the SS number?....

 

[caela]

Sorry, they are not eating up more tax dollars than they contribute. They contribute a lot.

And when you get down to it, we are all illegal immigrants except for the Native Americans.

I am not an illegal anything. My great-great-great-great whatever's might have been seen as invaders by the (then) Native Americans, but I am just as much a Native of this country as any American that can claim tribal ancestry. My ancestor might not have been but I was born and raised here making me very much a native of this country.

As for how much illegals do, or don't, contribute to society as a whole I can't say. Numbers on that particular issue always seem to be skewed to suit whoever is compiling the data and you can find studies that go either way. Unless they are looking for asylum from certain death in their own counry...treat them and ship their asses home. If they want to be here they can go and do the damned paperwork.

 

[alan1]

And nobody said anything about shooting them either (except for you). You are going to make a stupid statement like that, then expect reasonable debate? If you really wanted to debate, you wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest.

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it? Ask Xotoxi; he got it.

More like your stupidity is a waste of my time.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

And nobody said anything about shooting them either (except for you). You are going to make a stupid statement like that, then expect reasonable debate? If you really wanted to debate, you wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest.

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it? Ask Xotoxi; he got it.

More like your stupidity is a waste of my time.

And yet you post this message instead of putting me on ignore.

 

[alan1]

Sarcasm is lost on you, isn't it? Ask Xotoxi; he got it.

More like your stupidity is a waste of my time.

And yet you post this message instead of putting me on ignore.

I don't put anybody on ignore, no matter how stupid you are.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

More like your stupidity is a waste of my time.

And yet you post this message instead of putting me on ignore.

I don't put anybody on ignore, no matter how stupid you are.

So you let people you think are stupid waste your time. Hm. Who's the stupidest one?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sorry, they are not eating up more tax dollars than they contribute. They contribute a lot.

And when you get down to it, we are all illegal immigrants except for the Native Americans.

get them to start paying taxes on the money they earn....THEN they are adding to the pot they take from....

They pay sales taxes, among other things. I agree with the basic premise; however, I think there should be a system in place for granting asylum. Some of those illegal aliens are people who are here to take advantage of the system; others, however, came over under the understanding they were doing so legally, only to end up slaves in a sex house. Or were running from a tyrannical government. Those sorts of people should be put on the road to citizenship, in my opinion. But the ones who are here to make money off our economy and then go home - deport them if ya find them. Including if you find them in a hospital emergency room. But treat them first.

well even a foreign tourist pays sales tax on purchases.....but if your living here and working....and you wanna take something out of the pot....then you have to put something back in...and im talking when you get paid....you pay taxes.....and of course if your unemployed....you should have some kind of a temporary i dont have to pay into the pot untill i get a job status....

 

[alan1]

And yet you post this message instead of putting me on ignore.

I don't put anybody on ignore, no matter how stupid you are.

So you let people you think are stupid waste your time. Hm. Who's the stupidest one?

I enjoy pointing out stupidity and laughing at it. I don't find that a waste of time since I like doing it. It's one of life's many pleasures.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

I don't put anybody on ignore, no matter how stupid you are.

So you let people you think are stupid waste your time. Hm. Who's the stupidest one?

I enjoy pointing out stupidity and laughing at it. I don't find that a waste of time since I like doing it. It's one of life's many pleasures.

Kudos: you just flip flopped on my being a waste of your time.

 

[Nik]

get them to start paying taxes on the money they earn....THEN they are adding to the pot they take from....

They pay sales taxes, among other things. I agree with the basic premise; however, I think there should be a system in place for granting asylum. Some of those illegal aliens are people who are here to take advantage of the system; others, however, came over under the understanding they were doing so legally, only to end up slaves in a sex house. Or were running from a tyrannical government. Those sorts of people should be put on the road to citizenship, in my opinion. But the ones who are here to make money off our economy and then go home - deport them if ya find them. Including if you find them in a hospital emergency room. But treat them first.

well even a foreign tourist pays sales tax on purchases.....but if your living here and working....and you wanna take something out of the pot....then you have to put something back in...and im talking when you get paid....you pay taxes.....and of course if your unemployed....you should have some kind of a temporary i dont have to pay into the pot untill i get a job status....

Lots of illegals commit social security fraud and get a SS# when they get employment. This means that they are paying into the pot, but they rarely take out because of limitations on government services they can receive, and usually they are too scared/don't have a desire to draw SS here when they get old.

 

[OneWorld]

For a libertarian, the answer to your question is an unqualified "yes." (Says a lot about them, doesn't it?)

Yes it does. It's pretty sick.

True story. When I was 21 years old, my fiance at the time got pregnant (shortly before we had already planned to get married). It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were fine with it, as we'd already been planning on getting married ~5 months from when we received the news.

At that time, I was an assistant manager at Best Buy, making very little money w/ no health insurance (they didn't provide, and I couldn't pay). My finance was a receptionist for a small law firm (not much pay and no health insurance). ~2 months into her pregnancy I was in the living room when I heard a thud in the bathroom.

I ran in and found her laying in the shower, she was about to get in and had passed out. I took her in the room and layed her down. She had never passed out before, and didn't know what was going on. She said she had a pain in her lower digestive track, and she was looking fairly pale.

I jumped on the good old Mayo family health CD on my computer and started looking up some thing. I concluded from the symptoms and what was going on that she may have an ectopic pregnancy. I carried her to my car and to the emergency room and told the nurses that she had fainted and that she was pregnant and I feared she may have an ectopic pregnancy.

They looked at my really strange, but they saw how white she looked, and they quickly rushed her in and gave her an ultra sound which confirmed what I said. Without hesitation the quickly got a hold of a doctor and preped her for emergency surgery. It appears as though her fallopian tube had burst and she was internally bleeding to death.

They operated on her, removed one of her tubes, and the operating doctor told me that if she had gotten in perhaps 30 minutes later she would have died. Well, over 21k later the government paying for all of her treatment was appreciated. There's no way that based on our salaries and any kind of interest on a loan like that, that we'd be able to repay that any time soon.

And if they didn't have that service, she would have died...

So not having these kinds of services in place, is that what our good Christian nature tells us is morally correct?

 

[Neser Boha]

NO, sbsolutely NOT....any emergency must be treated immediately by the hospital, with no concern or thought on whether you have insurance or can pay for it.

not to do such hurts all of our medical treatment and care....i want NO DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL to wait till my husband can get there with my insurance card when my leg has been severed!

it is also INHUMANE to require money to save ones life in an emergency! SHAME ON all of you that said YES! the supposed religious ones saying yes, is mind boggling!

I was surprised that there was so much hemming and hawing and ducking and dodging such a straight forward question: Should hospitals be free to dump penniless emergency patients?

I think what is being forgotten here is that hospitals are a business. The doctors, nurses and all the diagnostic machines down to the cafeteria are all run on a profit. Without that profit, they would not exist. Even the emergency staff and the machines are costing the hospital staff a lot of money. How do you propose all of that is to be paid for? It just doesn't fall out of the heavens. Yes, we American tax payers are paying for it. Aren't you angered that the illegal aliens from Mexico are sucking off our taxpayer money for care in the emergency room, and that you must wait for hours to receive emergency care while waiting in the emergency room because of these leeches? I am.....

Hmm... you're saying it as if anyone actually wants to end up in an emergency room... People go there only if they need to (except hypochondriacs, of course). Sounds like you're against EMTALA...

You are... sad.

 

[alan1]

So you let people you think are stupid waste your time. Hm. Who's the stupidest one?

I enjoy pointing out stupidity and laughing at it. I don't find that a waste of time since I like doing it. It's one of life's many pleasures.

Kudos: you just flip flopped on my being a waste of your time.

You are still a waste, my pointing out your stupidity isn't a waste, it's a valuable service I supply for everybody else.
Try and keep up.

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

You are still a waste, my pointing out your stupidity isn't a waste, it's a valuable service I supply for everybody else.
Try and keep up.

Too bad you're the only one who thinks it's valuable.

 

[alan1]

You are still a waste, my pointing out your stupidity isn't a waste, it's a valuable service I supply for everybody else.
Try and keep up.

Too bad you're the only one who thinks it's valuable.

I've been repped a few times for my posts on this thread. How 'bout you?

 

[Centrism'sVoice]

You are still a waste, my pointing out your stupidity isn't a waste, it's a valuable service I supply for everybody else.
Try and keep up.

Too bad you're the only one who thinks it's valuable.

I've been repped a few times for my posts on this thread. How 'bout you?

Anyone can get repped for saying something asinine if they've kissed enough butts over the years.

 

[dilloduck]

For a libertarian, the answer to your question is an unqualified "yes." (Says a lot about them, doesn't it?)

Yes it does. It's pretty sick.

True story. When I was 21 years old, my fiance at the time got pregnant (shortly before we had already planned to get married). It was an unplanned pregnancy, but we were fine with it, as we'd already been planning on getting married ~5 months from when we received the news.

At that time, I was an assistant manager at Best Buy, making very little money w/ no health insurance (they didn't provide, and I couldn't pay). My finance was a receptionist for a small law firm (not much pay and no health insurance). ~2 months into her pregnancy I was in the living room when I heard a thud in the bathroom.

I ran in and found her laying in the shower, she was about to get in and had passed out. I took her in the room and layed her down. She had never passed out before, and didn't know what was going on. She said she had a pain in her lower digestive track, and she was looking fairly pale.

I jumped on the good old Mayo family health CD on my computer and started looking up some thing. I concluded from the symptoms and what was going on that she may have an ectopic pregnancy. I carried her to my car and to the emergency room and told the nurses that she had fainted and that she was pregnant and I feared she may have an ectopic pregnancy.

They looked at my really strange, but they saw how white she looked, and they quickly rushed her in and gave her an ultra sound which confirmed what I said. Without hesitation the quickly got a hold of a doctor and preped her for emergency surgery. It appears as though her fallopian tube had burst and she was internally bleeding to death.

They operated on her, removed one of her tubes, and the operating doctor told me that if she had gotten in perhaps 30 minutes later she would have died. Well, over 21k later the government paying for all of her treatment was appreciated. There's no way that based on our salaries and any kind of interest on a loan like that, that we'd be able to repay that any time soon.

And if they didn't have that service, she would have died...

So not having these kinds of services in place, is that what our good Christian nature tells us is morally correct?

Good Christians could hang around emergency rooms and help everyone that the ER won't.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They pay sales taxes, among other things. I agree with the basic premise; however, I think there should be a system in place for granting asylum. Some of those illegal aliens are people who are here to take advantage of the system; others, however, came over under the understanding they were doing so legally, only to end up slaves in a sex house. Or were running from a tyrannical government. Those sorts of people should be put on the road to citizenship, in my opinion. But the ones who are here to make money off our economy and then go home - deport them if ya find them. Including if you find them in a hospital emergency room. But treat them first.

well even a foreign tourist pays sales tax on purchases.....but if your living here and working....and you wanna take something out of the pot....then you have to put something back in...and im talking when you get paid....you pay taxes.....and of course if your unemployed....you should have some kind of a temporary i dont have to pay into the pot untill i get a job status....

Lots of illegals commit social security fraud and get a SS# when they get employment. This means that they are paying into the pot, but they rarely take out because of limitations on government services they can receive, and usually they are too scared/don't have a desire to draw SS here when they get old.

well then they are breaking the law Nik....if they dont want to go through the channels and do things legit....like apply for citizenship....which i agree should be a faster process....then perhaps they should not be here....in Mexico (and hundreds of other countries) this kind of shenanigans would not be tolerated.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You are still a waste, my pointing out your stupidity isn't a waste, it's a valuable service I supply for everybody else.
Try and keep up.

Too bad you're the only one who thinks it's valuable.

i think its valuble.....at least MM aint a phony....