CDZ Should "Gender IDENTITY" be treated like physical Race/Gender or like Faith Based Affiliation?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by emilynghiem, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. BlackSand
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    BlackSand Nobody Supporting Member

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    The people that Believe any different ... Are the people that want to use their beliefs to stop what other people are doing.

    So basically ... You are asking me to what degree do I think we should use government (laws) ...
    To screw with what other people may believe.

    There is no difference in bullying people to make them do what you want ...
    Whether you beat them over the head with a stick ...
    Or make the excuse that getting the government to beat them over the head with a stick makes it any different.

    The best thing to do is settle it among yourselves.
    Make accommodations for those you support in a manner you and others can agree on ...
    And garner the extra support and rewards that come with managing your own affairs responsibly.

    Example ...
    I don't give a damn if Target has a policy saying trans-gender people can use whatever bathroom they want.
    I don't give a damn if Joe's Bait Shack has a policy that says you have to use a gender specific bathroom associated with your biological gender.

    I do give a damn if someone wants to pass a law saying Target or Joe's Bait Shop has to do something they don't want to do.

    But ... The problem is that crazy people keep insisting the government do something it is incapable of doing.
    It cannot treat anything equally ... There isn't a damn thing equal to something else outside of mathematics.
    The more people want to mess with stuff (interpretations) and the more they want to make the government the final say (law) ... The bigger the mess gets.

    .
     
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  2. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Platinum Member

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    I don't know about Sassy, but I would point out here that there's a difference between a physical disability and a mental disability. The ADA requires significantly more in the way of reasonable accommodations for those with physical disabilities than it does for mental.
     
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  3. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Platinum Member

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    Maybe because, unlike belief in God, science CAN prove whether or not you're actually a man or a woman. Might not be able to determine what you fantasize about being in your own imagination, but I fail to see why that needs to be known or acknowledged by anyone but you.
     
  4. BlackSand
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    BlackSand Nobody Supporting Member

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    That's mainly because the overall impact of a physical disability can be accurately measured ...
    Outside of whatever mental impairments may also be common to that disability.

    .

     
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  5. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Platinum Member

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    Exactly. And a person with a mental impairment - presuming he/she is functional enough to not be institutionalized - can make adjustments to accommodate the way normal, unimpaired people conduct themselves. A person with a physical disability doesn't really have that option.
     
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  6. baileyn45
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    baileyn45 Platinum Member

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    The T-shirt screen shot is a beauty.
     
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  7. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Also there's no issue with single stall restrooms or unisex.

    In private homes, people have restrooms that are for anyone to use. Why not with schools or businesses for those who don't want any issues including security issues.
     
  8. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear Cecilie1200
    Appreciate your thoughtful points and discussion here.
    This is where I would compare the accommodations of how someone dresses or presents oneself to faith based costume or appearance. Sometimes ones religious wardrobe can be accommodated, sometimes not.

    With the Burqas covering the head face or body, this can be accepted in some situations as faith based religious exercise without discrimination. But in workplaces where it becomes a safety issue, or in cases of driver license/ID it cannot be accommodated.

    Each situation should be the responsibility of the people involved to work out by their own beliefs, best judgment and discretion. We need to learn to be reasonable and respectful instead of exploiting any issue to make generalized political statements that incite judgment of one side or another.

    If people do or do not believe in accommodating transgender expression that should not be the govt business to establish or prohibit or judge or punish one belief over another. I see some of this pattern of running to govt to settle conflicts similar to running to mommy or daddy when the kids can't solve problems themselves. When it's an issue of danger or safety, of abuse or violation of laws and rights, yes, the govt authority should be called upon. But not for every disagreement over beliefs that are private and the choice of individuals. That is NOT the govts job to step and settle matters of beliefs, or else it results in establishing one sides beliefs and prohibiting the other. The govt should remain neutral and defend equal freedom of all ppl beliefs to be practiced individually by free choice, separately if necessary, not establish any belief over any other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  9. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear Sunni Man Thanks for your honest speech direct to the point.

    There are as many denominations to the Christian identity, many brands of feminists, atheists agnostics, Buddhists Muslims even Constitutionalists . If we as humans recognize our rights to express our beliefs and affiliations, no matter how whacked out or delusional or imaginary /conflicting these may be (so long as we don't commit crimes abuses or violations against the equal rights freedom and security/protections of other people) shouldn't individuals with transgender beliefs /identity have equal protection of their free exercise and expression (as long as this doesn't infringement on the equal rights beliefs and protections of others).

    Thanks Sunni Man you make me think about this:
    If these LGBT proponents CANNOT recognize and defend their own beliefs on First Amendment religious grounds, maybe this shows they aren't real beliefs. Maybe they are false delusions and that's why they can't bring themselves to use the First Amendment free exercise clause to defend their views and rights to expression.

    Anyone else would defend their beliefs by the laws, which don't require proving those beliefs scientifically in order for the law to defend them against discrimination by govt or by other public institutions funded thereby.

    So maybe this question answers itself. Maybe the reason they don't make this religious freedom argument is they really don't believe enough to defend it as such. Maybe it's just exploited to push "other people " to change and not solely to protect one's own practice of choice.
     
  10. BlackSand
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    Some businesses already have those here ... Only they are called family bathrooms and not transgender bathrooms.

    They are usually a bathroom with accommodations for both genders, a changing table for babies, and usually a lock on the door.
    If you are a dad and your little girl needs to use the potty, or vice versa, you don't have to send them in a large public bathroom by themselves

    There isn't a sign on the door that says transgender people cannot use the bathroom.
    But ... That is a service the business decides to offer ... Not a law requiring them to.

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