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I am definitely of two minds on this subject.
On the one hand I totally agree with Kevin and the argument for self determination in regards to ones own body.
But on the other hand, as a person who struggled with nicotine addiction, I know first hand how difficult it was to break the cycle of addiction.
But as a smoker, I could still function as a productive member of society.
Addiction to the harder drugs often impairs a persons ability to function in society, causing their lives to spiral out of control.
Unemployed but still addicted, these people often turn to crime to feed their addiction.
And that is where there personal freedom interferes with my rights.
So, while I would be open to legalizing marijuana and some prescription drugs, we'll need to find a way to negate the effects of addiction before I can in good conscience endorse the legalization of all drugs.
But isn't this kind of like the gun argument? If we outlaw guns, outlaws will be the only ones with guns because they will still find a way to get them.
Drugs being illegal certainly isn't stopping those who want them, from obtaining them.
That's a very astute analogy Paulie...carried a step further, guns like drugs have been misused by a minority of citizens to cause harm to society.
That misused plagues the conscience of those that support gun rights, but at the same time you cannot legislate based on the exception, to the detriment of law abiding citizens.
I'll have to give your observation some serious thought, but already I am leaning towards changing my vote.
because parental concern is not universal, dude. True story: Traci Lord's father brought her to her first porn gigs. Underage.
and, don't you think it's a little disingenuous to talk about personal liberty on a cross... and then validate staggered personal liberty depending on arbitrary ages?
Arbitrary ages is a different discussion.
not when you seem to be relying on them in order to situationally validate your opinion about the onset of personal liberty in relation to CP and drug consumption. .....
Nothing is stopping you from doing them now.. you want to, go for it... however, you get caught you pay the piper with society's price...
I like the status quo... no legalizing other bad substances/drugs that are currently illegal...
What right does "society" have to tell me I can't do drugs?
No one is saying you can't, even if it is illegal.. except that if you are caught, you pay society's punishment for an action that is detrimental to society.. and yes, the use of drugs by you individually has more of a scope than someone just sitting and smoking their pot while whacking off into a cheetos bag in mommy's basement
yea.... I know.. I call for the deaths of people all the time for activity such as smoking a bowl of marijuana.
sure thing, kid.
Thanks for proving my point. Your intelligence is evidenced by your immature reply...perhaps you should put down the bong now and step back into reality.
Anyone who actively seeks out drugs for a "high" has got other issues they need to be dealing with. Personally I could care less if they removed pot from the schedule 1 drug list. If kids want to smoke it let them...they will end up dying from it one way or another.
Kevin you are quite correct; Shogun is a professed expert on the effects of using both cocaine and marijuana. I don't doubt him for a moment, he shows all the classic mental lapses of a drug addled idiot.Doing drugs is stupid, and while you may think I'm stupid I'd rather not prove you right.But, I don't advocate ignoring the reality of the differences of drugs for the sake of a talking point mantra. Like I said, go bump a few lines and smoke a bowl and come back and tell me which one literally made you fiend for MORE.
But isn't this kind of like the gun argument? If we outlaw guns, outlaws will be the only ones with guns because they will still find a way to get them.
Drugs being illegal certainly isn't stopping those who want them, from obtaining them.
That's a very astute analogy Paulie...carried a step further, guns like drugs have been misused by a minority of citizens to cause harm to society.
That misused plagues the conscience of those that support gun rights, but at the same time you cannot legislate based on the exception, to the detriment of law abiding citizens.
I'll have to give your observation some serious thought, but already I am leaning towards changing my vote.
Upon further reflection, I'm going to stick with my original opinion.
While there can be correlations drawn between the gun rights debate and the legalized drug debate, one important difference defines the argument.
Firearms serve many positive rolls in society to include self defense/protection, hunting, and sport/competition.
What redeeming societal qualities do illegal drugs possess to balance their destructive qualities?
indeed, cocaine feels GREAT. If it were legal, more people would use it. Likewise, we saw more people use alcohol after prohibition was lifted. The assumption that drug users are already using on par with use after legalization is absurd. What kept Joe Blow from drinking a beer after work during prohibition? the legality. Once legal, the door to the stall opens and more people use than those willing to leap through black market hoops to use. You think the majority of binge drinking college kids WONT snort a legal line before going to the bar and conveying how responsible they are with legal alcohol? Come on, dude. And thats just one example. Every time you see the growing market trend of energy drinks go ahead and remind yourself that this is exactly the pattern that would happen were coke legal.
Kevin you are quite correct; Shogun is a professed expert on the effects of using both cocaine and marijuana. I don't doubt him for a moment, he shows all the classic mental lapses of a drug addled idiot.Doing drugs is stupid, and while you may think I'm stupid I'd rather not prove you right.But, I don't advocate ignoring the reality of the differences of drugs for the sake of a talking point mantra. Like I said, go bump a few lines and smoke a bowl and come back and tell me which one literally made you fiend for MORE.
Legalizing drugs should only be done if it can be done in such a way that it would reduce the number of children who use the drugs. Otherwise society will eventually find itself overwhelmed by brain damaged fools like Shogun.
Anyone who actively seeks out drugs for a "high" has got other issues they need to be dealing with. Personally I could care less if they removed pot from the schedule 1 drug list. If kids want to smoke it let them...they will end up dying from it one way or another.
besides maybe causing a car accident while stoned, tell me one way someone will die from marijuana?
Then tell me ways people will die from cigarettes? Funny, laws against smoking them in public now... and ways someone will die from drinking 4 beers, oh wait, illegal to drive after that many beers now...
The fact is that you can hinder the freedoms of others, like with cigarettes if you smoke in public... the fact is that you can also become impaired as much or more-so than people using alcohol...
Besides you or someone else wanting to get high.. there is no reason to legalize this drug (and don't give me the debunked medicinal argument.. when we have nebulized and ingested drugs such as Marinol that already give the beneficial effects that are sought after without having the high or the smoking delivery system that is never approved by the FDA)
Arbitrary ages is a different discussion.
not when you seem to be relying on them in order to situationally validate your opinion about the onset of personal liberty in relation to CP and drug consumption. .....
I'm not relying on an arbitrary age at all. In the eyes of the law the adult age is 18, and that's the age that society would likely stick with. Is it arbitrary? Certainly in some cases. In others it may be more accurate. And still in others it may be too low. That's the problem when we try to define something by a certain number, we group people together as if they're all the same when they're not.
not when you seem to be relying on them in order to situationally validate your opinion about the onset of personal liberty in relation to CP and drug consumption. .....
I'm not relying on an arbitrary age at all. In the eyes of the law the adult age is 18, and that's the age that society would likely stick with. Is it arbitrary? Certainly in some cases. In others it may be more accurate. And still in others it may be too low. That's the problem when we try to define something by a certain number, we group people together as if they're all the same when they're not.
sure you are. By making a distinction between access to liberty according to a socially derived age and role (adult and parent) you've just staggered access to liberty along a rather arbitrary line. Indeed, you started your paragraph with one statement while finishing it with a whole other admittance.
Kevin you are quite correct; Shogun is a professed expert on the effects of using both cocaine and marijuana. I don't doubt him for a moment, he shows all the classic mental lapses of a drug addled idiot.Doing drugs is stupid, and while you may think I'm stupid I'd rather not prove you right.But, I don't advocate ignoring the reality of the differences of drugs for the sake of a talking point mantra. Like I said, go bump a few lines and smoke a bowl and come back and tell me which one literally made you fiend for MORE.
Legalizing drugs should only be done if it can be done in such a way that it would reduce the number of children who use the drugs. Otherwise society will eventually find itself overwhelmed by brain damaged fools like Shogun.
indeed, cocaine feels GREAT. If it were legal, more people would use it. Likewise, we saw more people use alcohol after prohibition was lifted. The assumption that drug users are already using on par with use after legalization is absurd. What kept Joe Blow from drinking a beer after work during prohibition? the legality. Once legal, the door to the stall opens and more people use than those willing to leap through black market hoops to use. You think the majority of binge drinking college kids WONT snort a legal line before going to the bar and conveying how responsible they are with legal alcohol? Come on, dude. And thats just one example. Every time you see the growing market trend of energy drinks go ahead and remind yourself that this is exactly the pattern that would happen were coke legal.
Except alcohol and energy drinks don't exactly have the same negative stigma that coke, heroin and meth do. More people used alcohol after prohibition because of that stigma or lack of it. Alcohol simply isn't considered the fuck-up-your-life drug that cocaine is. You can't tell me that all of the people, or even half of them, that head to happy hour on Friday after work would also be snorting coke if it were legal. I don't consider myslef to be out of the ordinary behaviorally and despite advocating that most if not all drugs be legal I have zero desire to use any of them if they actually did become legal and I would guess I am probably in the majority there.
Kevin you are quite correct; Shogun is a professed expert on the effects of using both cocaine and marijuana. I don't doubt him for a moment, he shows all the classic mental lapses of a drug addled idiot.Doing drugs is stupid, and while you may think I'm stupid I'd rather not prove you right.
Legalizing drugs should only be done if it can be done in such a way that it would reduce the number of children who use the drugs. Otherwise society will eventually find itself overwhelmed by brain damaged fools like Shogun.
My post was not an attempt to insult Shogun for what he may or may not have done, that's his own business. I don't think it's intelligent to use drugs, and Shogun was suggesting that I do drugs to experience their potency for myself, though I think he was mostly joking, before I comment on them. So I simply replied that I would never try them.
I'm not relying on an arbitrary age at all. In the eyes of the law the adult age is 18, and that's the age that society would likely stick with. Is it arbitrary? Certainly in some cases. In others it may be more accurate. And still in others it may be too low. That's the problem when we try to define something by a certain number, we group people together as if they're all the same when they're not.
sure you are. By making a distinction between access to liberty according to a socially derived age and role (adult and parent) you've just staggered access to liberty along a rather arbitrary line. Indeed, you started your paragraph with one statement while finishing it with a whole other admittance.
Whatever you say bud.
sure you are. By making a distinction between access to liberty according to a socially derived age and role (adult and parent) you've just staggered access to liberty along a rather arbitrary line. Indeed, you started your paragraph with one statement while finishing it with a whole other admittance.
Whatever you say bud.
bolded above. You've made a distinction between the liberties of a child and the same for parents. Which is why I reminded you that not all parents care the same way. check..
indeed, cocaine feels GREAT. If it were legal, more people would use it. Likewise, we saw more people use alcohol after prohibition was lifted. The assumption that drug users are already using on par with use after legalization is absurd. What kept Joe Blow from drinking a beer after work during prohibition? the legality. Once legal, the door to the stall opens and more people use than those willing to leap through black market hoops to use. You think the majority of binge drinking college kids WONT snort a legal line before going to the bar and conveying how responsible they are with legal alcohol? Come on, dude. And thats just one example. Every time you see the growing market trend of energy drinks go ahead and remind yourself that this is exactly the pattern that would happen were coke legal.
Except alcohol and energy drinks don't exactly have the same negative stigma that coke, heroin and meth do. More people used alcohol after prohibition because of that stigma or lack of it. Alcohol simply isn't considered the fuck-up-your-life drug that cocaine is. You can't tell me that all of the people, or even half of them, that head to happy hour on Friday after work would also be snorting coke if it were legal. I don't consider myslef to be out of the ordinary behaviorally and despite advocating that most if not all drugs be legal I have zero desire to use any of them if they actually did become legal and I would guess I am probably in the majority there.
YET. Have you seen any crack downs on sugary, caffeinated beverages within the last 4 years? With sleep deprivation and energy drinks? It's not cocaine's REPUTATION that makes is less apparent how great it feels to snort a line, dude.
and, with as many alcoholics and drunk driving deaths EVERY YEAR it's pretty silly to claim that alcohol doesn't also have the potential to fuck up a life. Potential that is made apparent by a vast myriad of sources.
and yes, I CAN tell you that people would certainly cut out lines that turn them into percieved social superstars if legal. Don't you remember DISCO or the 80s at all? Shit wasn't legal then but you sure as hell knew what was going on in studio 54, didn't you?
I disagree. Chances are, you've tried alcohol. hell, chances are, you've even smoked a cigarette in your life. I'm sure you drink caffeine and i'd be willing to bet you've had a sugar high at some point in your life. I attribute the majority of your opinion to flat out ignorance due to non-exposure to the substance you are commenting on. That is not condemnation; it's true that drugs are not for everyone. HOWEVER, to look at our medicated society and assume legal coke wouldn't hit like wildfire is three shades of naive.
Not always true.I have to agree with this.
This country is PLAGUED by the use of the Prozacs and the Percocets of the world. While not STREET legal, they are certainly much easier to obtain since they only require something as simple as a doctor's autograph.
Coke is a dopamine, seratonin, and norepinephrine reputake inhibitor. And incidentally, so are most prescription depression medications like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc. As well as narcotic pain killers such as Percocet.
There's really not much difference between those prescribed drugs, and coke, at the end of the day. With both, the user becomes 'addicted' and can typically not safely stop use spontaneously, without negative effects on the neuro-transmitter process.
Not always true.I have to agree with this.
This country is PLAGUED by the use of the Prozacs and the Percocets of the world. While not STREET legal, they are certainly much easier to obtain since they only require something as simple as a doctor's autograph.
Coke is a dopamine, seratonin, and norepinephrine reputake inhibitor. And incidentally, so are most prescription depression medications like Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc. As well as narcotic pain killers such as Percocet.
There's really not much difference between those prescribed drugs, and coke, at the end of the day. With both, the user becomes 'addicted' and can typically not safely stop use spontaneously, without negative effects on the neuro-transmitter process.
Lots of people who shot smack in 'Nam came back home and never touched the stuff again. There are also lots of people who can use pot, cocaine, etc. recreationally and not become physically dependent.
I'm in the Dr. Thomas Szasz camp on this one..."Addiction" (as it has become colloquially known) is a symptom, not a cause in and of itself.
