CDZ Should bump stocks be legal?

[flacaltenn]

what kind of car do you own?

What size house do you live in?

What kind of pet do you have?

Why don't you have a bigger, fancier, or more exotic one?

There are many restrictions on the car I own to make it safer. I am not allowed to drive drunk and must be licensed, insured and wear a seat belt
My house is limited by local zoning and safety laws
I am restricted in the type of pet I can own......I am not allowed to own a tiger

These guns have no application in civilian use other than to massacre as many people as you can in a short period of time

There are many restrictions on the car I own to make it safer.

and even more in the manufacture and selling of firearms

My house is limited by local zoning and safety laws

Not allowed to move? limited in what way?

Can't put on additions, paint it, etc?

I am not allowed to own a tiger

Why not?

These guns have no application in civilian use other than to massacre as many people as you can in a short period of time

no, there are multiple uses, you just ignore the ones that don't fit your agenda

Name a practical use of an AR-15 that has been modified to shoot 500 rounds per minute?

"The official Bushmaster XM15 manual lists the maximum effective rate of fire at 45 rounds per minute." https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjm9p6Fl9XWAhXr1IMKHTGNCa8QFggwMAM&url=http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/01/02/gun_control_ar_15_rifle_the_nra_claims_the_ar_15_rifle_is_for_hunting_and.html&usg=AOvVaw2jsEDCo14PrOTvBszN642n
So, I guess there really wouldn't be a "practical" application of an AR-15 capable of firing at 500rpm. That said, at 45rpm, one could argue that sport shooting would be a "practical" application. As for the 500 rpm part, an AK-47 "At full cyclic rate, they can fire about 600 rounds per minute (upto 640 rounds per minute for the AKM), with a practical rate of about 100 rounds per minute fully automatic..."https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiFhZD8l9XWAhWhzIMKHeo1BaAQFgguMAI&url=http://www.constitution.org/mil/wi/17th/ak%20rifles.htm&usg=AOvVaw3NlcES1wzvpHuE8QSRokYg The BAR is capable of a 500-650 rpm rate, however it is limited to "just" 20 rounds. So, what rifle would you say is capable of firing at 500 rpm that you do not know of a "practical" application for?

An AR 15 modified with a bump stock is capable of firing at 500 rounds per minute

That weapon rained horror down on thousands of people

It has no place in our society

First of all -- I agree with you. Secondly, quit being so fucking dramatic. As many folks have told you -- a 500 round CAPACITY is not really legal or practical on an AR.

The "bump fire" trick was known in the Old West with certain rifles using the laws of physics to reload and fire. It's not real new. It's like looking super bad by starting a chain saw by dropping it by the cord..

Second -- the MORONS at the ATF probably never actually fired one when they declared it LEGAL in 2010. That's just the general INCOMPETENCE and lack of motivation the Swamp is known for.. Blame THEM for the additional deaths in Las Vegas.

Third -- by many state laws about mag capacity, you couldn't even legally test or toy with this.

But PERSONALLY -- I think for the pro-gun folks to keep a PRINCIPLED STAND on where "the line" drawn -- "semi-automatic" needs to REMAIN "semi-automatic".. That's why I oppose this the same as any already illegal mods to legal rifles...

Now -- you gotta get ATF and the current leadership to get on the right side.

 

[oldsoul]

An AR 15 modified with a bump stock is capable of firing at 500 rounds per minute

According to who? Bushmaster, a (the? not sure, doesn't matter) manufacturer of the AR-15, seems to disagree with your statement. Do you propose to know more about the AR than them?

Why anyone needs that firepower beyond me
Unless you are planning on a massacre

Or you are wanting the ability to defend yourself from, oh, I don't know, a tyrannical government, for example. I am not suggesting that is a real threat today in the U.S., however, can you name just one society that has descended into tyranny with a well armed populace, capable of defending itself?

There does seem to be a fundamental difference in the way government is viewed here as well. Some seem to believe the government is there to keep us "in line". I see it the other way around. WE are there to keep the government "in line". The moment the government no longer fears the populace, is the moment we start to lose our rights, liberties, and freedom.

 

[Humorme]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

 

[oldsoul]

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

Good point. If it is, indeed the guns' fault then no one should be in prison for shooting someone, or even shooting at someone. That is, obviously, ridiculous. No, it is not the fault of the gun, the gun maker, the hotel (or whatever venue), failings of the police (ok, maybe that one), or any other of the host of "scapegoats" people like to use. It is the responsibility of the perpetrator, solely and wholly.

 

[flacaltenn]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

And YET -- you can't roll to the store in a track ready Indy/Nascar/NHRA vehicle to GET the brewskies. Can ya?

This is a "line" to draw between folks who appreciate high performance and feel the need and morons who don't like your choices.

I'm a staunch Civil Liberties guy. Top 1%. But the pain and misery from dealing with the naggers require these "lines". And the line that works for gun control is AUTOMATIC FIRE vs Semi-Auto.

You push past that line and the number of opposing morons goes up exponentially. BTW -- works in reverse for leftist desires as well on all their issues. Don't think that pedophilia and polygamy are part of "diversity" for example. That's part of the TOLERANCE that allows morons to placate opposing morons in a free country..

 

[Humorme]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

And YET -- you can't roll to the store in a track ready Indy/Nascar/NHRA vehicle to GET the brewskies. Can ya?

This is a "line" to draw between folks who appreciate high performance and feel the need and morons who don't like your choices.

I'm a staunch Civil Liberties guy. Top 1%. But the pain and misery from dealing with the naggers require these "lines". And the line that works for gun control is AUTOMATIC FIRE vs Semi-Auto.

You push past that line and the number of opposing morons goes up exponentially. BTW -- works in reverse for leftist desires as well on all their issues. Don't think that pedophilia and polygamy are part of "diversity" for example. That's part of the TOLERANCE that allows morons to placate opposing morons in a free country..

Nice try, but your analogy doesn't work. A bump stock does not make a firearm a fully automatic no more than painting your souped up car into an Indy performer.

Secondly, your analogy doesn't work because military arms are the most protected weapons under the Second Amendment - so the laws they have in place now are unconstitutional over-kill.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can bump fire without any external devices whatsoever.

Maybe we should make fingers and thumbs illegal too

 

[Vastator]

Ups has delivered! I tried to warn you guys to get out ahead of this... You snooze, you lose.

 

[Humorme]

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

Good point. If it is, indeed the guns' fault then no one should be in prison for shooting someone, or even shooting at someone. That is, obviously, ridiculous. No, it is not the fault of the gun, the gun maker, the hotel (or whatever venue), failings of the police (ok, maybe that one), or any other of the host of "scapegoats" people like to use. It is the responsibility of the perpetrator, solely and wholly.

In the instant case, it should be remembered that EVERY mass shooter is a political jihadist and / or on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Trump took the initiative to try and ban people from Muslim countries since the Islamic terrorists have, for all intents and purposes, declared war against the American people.

With respect to SSRIs, the known side effects are suicidal and homicidal tendencies. While ISIS claims credit for radicalizing Stephen Paddock, WND News is claiming that the culprit is mind altering "legal" drugs... as I have predicted all along:

Paddock prescribed drug linked to violent outbursts

We could and should hold doctors and Big Pharma accountable in this instance.

 

[flacaltenn]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

And YET -- you can't roll to the store in a track ready Indy/Nascar/NHRA vehicle to GET the brewskies. Can ya?

This is a "line" to draw between folks who appreciate high performance and feel the need and morons who don't like your choices.

I'm a staunch Civil Liberties guy. Top 1%. But the pain and misery from dealing with the naggers require these "lines". And the line that works for gun control is AUTOMATIC FIRE vs Semi-Auto.

You push past that line and the number of opposing morons goes up exponentially. BTW -- works in reverse for leftist desires as well on all their issues. Don't think that pedophilia and polygamy are part of "diversity" for example. That's part of the TOLERANCE that allows morons to placate opposing morons in a free country..

Nice try, but your analogy doesn't work. A bump stock does not make a firearm a fully automatic no more than painting your souped up car into an Indy performer.

Secondly, your analogy doesn't work because military arms are the most protected weapons under the Second Amendment - so the laws they have in place now are unconstitutional over-kill.

From what I've seen, this "trick" puts the weapon into the same general rate of fire --- IF you control the weapon and you are practiced at it and you TUNE the stock. Not anything that makes the weapon more precise tho. So you can spray like a Jihadi or stay semi-auto and get the same controlled bursts as a military weapon is GENERALLY used.

Asking for MORE in terms of firepower is a great ideal. It would work in a country where 60% of the adult population hasn't been on Prozac and is disciplined enough for the responsibility. That's NOT where this society is heading. I'm with you in spirit -- but in REALVILLE -- we have too many morons to GET more out this Amendment.

 

[flacaltenn]

You can bump fire without any external devices whatsoever.

Maybe we should make fingers and thumbs illegal too

Absolutely. Like I said, it's as old as the Old West. But your not gonna be able to sustain that with any accuracy over a large number of rounds. More likely end up shooting yourself in the foot or blowing away the target stand or the hanger.

I imagine a nice cushy jacket like we wore in competition would do a lot to help. Maybe puff up the padding a bit.. Or build it into a firing stand.

I ADMIT -- had no idea what a bump stock was before this week, but I've shot most every kind of gun. This really needs to be "not so easy"..

 

[jon_berzerk]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

should cargo vans be banned

 

[jon_berzerk]

how about box cutters

 

[jon_berzerk]

how about pressure cookers

 

[flacaltenn]

If you know what you're doing, you can take a humble lever action rifle to 30 rounds/minute. It's all relative.

 

[flacaltenn]

how about pressure cookers

Only automatic pressure cookers.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If you know what you're doing, you can take a humble lever action rifle to 30 rounds/minute. It's all relative.

agreed

 

[Humorme]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

And YET -- you can't roll to the store in a track ready Indy/Nascar/NHRA vehicle to GET the brewskies. Can ya?

This is a "line" to draw between folks who appreciate high performance and feel the need and morons who don't like your choices.

I'm a staunch Civil Liberties guy. Top 1%. But the pain and misery from dealing with the naggers require these "lines". And the line that works for gun control is AUTOMATIC FIRE vs Semi-Auto.

You push past that line and the number of opposing morons goes up exponentially. BTW -- works in reverse for leftist desires as well on all their issues. Don't think that pedophilia and polygamy are part of "diversity" for example. That's part of the TOLERANCE that allows morons to placate opposing morons in a free country..

Nice try, but your analogy doesn't work. A bump stock does not make a firearm a fully automatic no more than painting your souped up car into an Indy performer.

Secondly, your analogy doesn't work because military arms are the most protected weapons under the Second Amendment - so the laws they have in place now are unconstitutional over-kill.

From what I've seen, this "trick" puts the weapon into the same general rate of fire --- IF you control the weapon and you are practiced at it and you TUNE the stock. Not anything that makes the weapon more precise tho. So you can spray like a Jihadi or stay semi-auto and get the same controlled bursts as a military weapon is GENERALLY used.

Asking for MORE in terms of firepower is a great ideal. It would work in a country where 60% of the adult population hasn't been on Prozac and is disciplined enough for the responsibility. That's NOT where this society is heading. I'm with you in spirit -- but in REALVILLE -- we have too many morons to GET more out this Amendment.

As a general rule, full auto fire is suppressive, not controlled. IF the shooter had been armed with a semi auto and had a good flash suppressor, he'd have been much more effective, but I won't debate that subject in a forum where I believe a nutcase or two might be lurking.

The Right to keep and bear Arms is not a right granted by the Constitution and it does not depend upon the Constitution. The RIGHT is above the law and if we don't defend it, we may as well become a socialist cesspool.

Yeah, we have nutjobs and it is there that we need to expend our efforts... NOT trying to dismantle the Second Amendment on the installment plan.

 

[Zander]

if this clown had not used a "Bump stock" and instead took a controlled and "aimed" shot every 2-3 seconds, he would have killed a lot more people.

One could easily argue the (novelty - no serious shooter uses one) bump stock saved lives!!

 

[flacaltenn]

Recent events have me thinking about these. Essentially it is a device which if I understand right somewhat clumsily uses the recoil of the rifle to make it fire faster.

Full-Auto Fast - Product Update - $99 Bump Stock - GunsAmerica Digest

I have never fired a gun with one. When first watching the video's of the recent tragedy I thought, "Is that an automatic rifle" but it was almost too slow.

Now according to the AP the gunman used a bumpstock Las Vegas shooting: Gunman had ‘bump-stock’ device that could speed fire – The Denver Post Which would explain the rate of fire.

So, if I understand bumpstocks are only good at firing into a herd or crowd since they reduce accuracy?

Is the rate of fire sufficient they should be regulated like automatic rifles are?

Or are they no big deal and I should be able to go buy one?

You should definitely be able to purchase a bump fire stock.

Nobody says squat if you soup up your car to do twice the legally posted speed limit and go out and buy 24 cans of beer at one time. It's AFTER you mow down a few people in a DUI incident that the people become concerned. How can lives lost via a DUI be any less valuable than lives lost due to firearms?

Sensible people realize that if a drunk driver mows your loved ones down, it's not the car that is at fault. How come you suppose those same people won't realize that the gun is not at fault.

I said many times that the ONLY people committing mass shootings are those who are political jihadists and those on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs. Paddock was on SSRIs... and THAT is where you should place your concerns.

And YET -- you can't roll to the store in a track ready Indy/Nascar/NHRA vehicle to GET the brewskies. Can ya?

This is a "line" to draw between folks who appreciate high performance and feel the need and morons who don't like your choices.

I'm a staunch Civil Liberties guy. Top 1%. But the pain and misery from dealing with the naggers require these "lines". And the line that works for gun control is AUTOMATIC FIRE vs Semi-Auto.

You push past that line and the number of opposing morons goes up exponentially. BTW -- works in reverse for leftist desires as well on all their issues. Don't think that pedophilia and polygamy are part of "diversity" for example. That's part of the TOLERANCE that allows morons to placate opposing morons in a free country..

Nice try, but your analogy doesn't work. A bump stock does not make a firearm a fully automatic no more than painting your souped up car into an Indy performer.

Secondly, your analogy doesn't work because military arms are the most protected weapons under the Second Amendment - so the laws they have in place now are unconstitutional over-kill.

From what I've seen, this "trick" puts the weapon into the same general rate of fire --- IF you control the weapon and you are practiced at it and you TUNE the stock. Not anything that makes the weapon more precise tho. So you can spray like a Jihadi or stay semi-auto and get the same controlled bursts as a military weapon is GENERALLY used.

Asking for MORE in terms of firepower is a great ideal. It would work in a country where 60% of the adult population hasn't been on Prozac and is disciplined enough for the responsibility. That's NOT where this society is heading. I'm with you in spirit -- but in REALVILLE -- we have too many morons to GET more out this Amendment.

As a general rule, full auto fire is suppressive, not controlled. IF the shooter had been armed with a semi auto and had a good flash suppressor, he'd have been much more effective, but I won't debate that subject in a forum where I believe a nutcase or two might be lurking.

The Right to keep and bear Arms is not a right granted by the Constitution and it does not depend upon the Constitution. The RIGHT is above the law and if we don't defend it, we may as well become a socialist cesspool.

Yeah, we have nutjobs and it is there that we need to expend our efforts... NOT trying to dismantle the Second Amendment on the installment plan.

Yeah. Like I said, I'm all for the idealism and enthusiasm for freedom. But the society is SICK -- going on demented and you don't WANT more legal firepower right now. Not EVEN in the hands of every cop.

I predict in a decade or two, the whole field of neuroscience will allow us to actually MEASURE "mental capacity" and rational behavior. Until we can have psych doctors who USE those measurements, these folks are handing out psycho-active drugs like Halloween candy. TODAY -- we can't rely on them for diagnosis and monitoring. We'll have to fix that. Don't trust them to determine who can buy and possess.

Even this recent shooter is alleged to be under psych care and on anti-depressants. Which are ABSOLUTELY prone to invoking suicidal and anti-social behavior.

Suggest the focus be on CCW and taking illegal guns off the streets. And on strictly keeping the semi-auto capability against all challenges by the dumb-nuts who want to focus on how they look - rather than how they work.