Should America try to emulate Germany's socialism?

Oddsfish

Member
Apr 10, 2012
69
9
6
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


Is this true?
 
Last edited:
Can no one debunk this? I know I can't, but I thought one of you would be able to.
 
What's interesting and what no one seems to want to discuss, is that all of the political and military "upheaval" in Europe in the 20th Century was DIRECTLY related to German Economic might.

WWI
WWII
EURO Zone.
 
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


Is this true?

Where is your proof that Germany is continuing to use a Socialist Economy?
 
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


Is this true?

Are you sure this speaker wasn't from Greece? :lol:

And no it's not. In fact Germany's government spending rate is only few percentage points higher than the US government's. But I agree that in some parts germany is actually better organized. You can't compare germany's national government to the federal government of USA really though.
 
Last edited:
Can no one debunk this? I know I can't, but I thought one of you would be able to.

It would require we be closer-in to other EU countries' markets. Germany can produce more, because its high-quality and thus more-expensive goods sell well, especially in Europe, where shipping US goods is costly to do.

The US is therefore different, and far more consumer-based. However, we could benefit from being more socialized in our mixed economy, which Germany has too, albeit with greater emphasis on social welfare programs, which I'd advocate here, as well.

In short, because we're a consumer-economy, our value is not in what we do, but in what we buy. And the more we empower our people to buy, the better our economic and business climate will be.
 
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


Is this true?

It would not work here because our workers do not perform like german workers. There you dont have the excessive work rules we have in some of our unionized shops, nor do you have the massive overhead from public sector unions. Civil Service is seen as a privilidge in Germany, and attracts some of the best talent in thier population, compared to here, where it usually does not.
 
In short, because we're a consumer-economy, our value is not in what we do, but in what we buy. And the more we empower our people to buy, the better our economic and business climate will be.

Well, only way a customer could get more demand from the thin air is by taxing the employee so that just doesn't work. And investing is what grows an economy, not spending. I have heard this fallacy too many times now.

In any case it's completely idiotic to call germany socialist and USA capitalist. The difference between government spending to gdp is about 5%... And the ECB isn't half as bad as the FED in "socialistic" way.
 
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


Is this true?
This Socialist is complete ass hole.

When Merkel came to power she said her government would be judged by how many jobs it created and by how much it had cut the deficit, and in her first 4 years she did a bang-up job! The German economy has been strong, has the lowest unemployment in Europe, and remains a powerhouse of the continent! Her pro-market, anti-labor policies have not garnered her any favor with the liberal left, but such is politics. However,* she also spent a lot of her time dealing with cultural/immigration issues and bailing out the crippled Eurozone…much to the chagrin of an increasing number of German voters. And her stance on these issues?
Angela Merkel | The Plaid Avenger
 
Can no one debunk this? I know I can't, but I thought one of you would be able to.

What socialism, dude?

Germans utterly reject Fed-style monetary policies. They reject a central bank with a mandate to stimulate the economy, create jobs and save irresponsible debt-addict politicians. There are probably more admirers of Von Mises and Hayek in the german Bundesbank than in the US Republican Party.

It amazes me that a country (America) that is allowed to run 1 trillion budget deficits for 5 consecutive years (with little or no consequence at all) is still considered by many as the cradle of fiscal responsibility and conservatism.

Both moderate german political parties and general public favor austerity and structural reforms over spending and huge deficits as the right to way to get out of recessions. And they are imposing their will in most Europe. They make no big drama if the GDP goes into recession for a couple of quarters.


Let's see some of their late "socialist" policies:

- Top personal income tax rate down from 53% in 1998 to 42%

- Corporate tax rate down from 59% in the 1990s to 29%. The german federal corporate tax rate is 15% (from 25% in 2007), the second lowest in Europe after Switzerland (8.5%)

- No taxation on capital gains until 2009. But the current taxable base is tiny.

- Deregulation and decentralization of labour rules. The labor reform costed the SPD two million party members and 1/3 of votes, and some of its worst electoral defeats in history.

- They have passed a balanced budget constitutional amendment, requiring a federal deficit below 0.35% of GDP from 2016.

- Right now the United States total spending as a share of GDP is 38% (federal, state and local). The German total spending is 42% of GDP. Considering that Germany has a national VAT of 19% (collected at every stage of the economy), and that one third of revenue in the European Union comes from taxes on consumption. Every german citizen pays federal taxes.


By the way, their Welfare is far from perfect. Health costs are out of control (12% of GDP and growing fast) because of low birth rates and an aging population. But they can still afford it.
 
Last edited:
Can no one debunk this? I know I can't, but I thought one of you would be able to.

What socialism, dude?

Germans utterly reject Fed-style monetary policies. They reject a central bank with a mandate to stimulate the economy, create jobs and save irresponsible debt-addict politicians. There are probably more admirers of Von Mises and Hayek in the german Bundesbank than in the US Republican Party.

It amazes me that a country (America) that is allowed to run 1 trillion budget deficits for 5 consecutive years (with little or no consequence at all) is still considered by many as the cradle of fiscal responsibility and conservatism.

Both moderate german political parties and general public favor austerity and structural reforms over spending and huge deficits as the right to way to get out of recessions. And they are imposing their will in most Europe. They make no big drama if the GDP goes into recession for a couple of quarters.


Let's see some of their late "socialist" policies:

- Top personal income tax rate down from 53% in 1998 to 42%

- Corporate tax rate down from 59% in the 1990s to 29%. The german federal corporate tax rate is 15% (from 25% in 2007), the second lowest in Europe after Switzerland (8.5%)

- No taxation on capital gains until 2009. But the current taxable base is tiny.

- Deregulation and decentralization of labour rules. The labor reform costed the SPD two million party members and 1/3 of votes, and some of its worst electoral defeats in history.

- They have passed a balanced budget constitutional amendment, requiring a federal deficit below 0.35% of GDP from 2016.

- Right now the United States total spending as a share of GDP is 38% (federal, state and local). The German total spending is 42% of GDP. Considering that Germany has a national VAT of 19% (collected at every stage of the economy), and that one third of revenue in the European Union comes from taxes on consumption. Every german citizen pays federal taxes.


By the way, their Welfare is far from perfect. Health costs are out of control (12% of GDP and growing fast) because of low birth rates and an aging population. But they can still afford it.

Anything has to be better than what is going on now in the US federal government. It is sad that the US is now seemingly more socialist than Germany.
 
The same group of people who controlled the banks in pre-war Germany are now in control of all U.S. financial institutions and driving our nation into financial chaos and possible collaspe.

A patriotic young German nationalist rose to power and made a heroic effort to rid his nation of this traitorous cabal and free the people from economic slavery but he failed.

Hopefully, a true American patriot will arise to free our country from this same group of people.

And be successful in instituting a final solution to a problem that has plagued western civilization for centuries.
 
The same group of people who controlled the banks in pre-war Germany are now in control of all U.S. financial institutions and driving our nation into financial chaos and possible collaspe.

A patriotic young German nationalist rose to power and made a heroic effort to rid his nation of this traitorous cabal and free the people from economic slavery but he failed.

Hopefully, a true American patriot will arise to free our country from this same group of people.

And be successful in instituting a final solution to a problem that has plagued western civilization for centuries.

No worries. I personally know a kid like this.

$child hitler.jpg
 
Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.
Is this true?

too stupid!!

1) Germany is pushing austerity or capitalism on Europe. Capitalism is not socialism??????


2) In particular they are not printing money they are, instead, living within their means or within capitalist constraints

3) The superior German work ethic is also very much responsible. It worked for them even under Hitler. While we have pot bellied, beer drinking, unions slobs making our cars and riding our industry into the ground they are making BWMs, Audis, Mercedes, Porsches, Bugottis, and all in a country 1/3 the size of ours.
 
My question is, have you ever been to Germany on more than a vacation?

The current economic situations in Germany, England, France, and other European countries is the result of the Marshall Plan at the end of WWII when the USA lent millions of dollars to help those countries rebuild after the war.

Also, due to a large US military presence in Europe, those nations did not have to spend much of their Gross National Product on their armed forces.

That allowed those countries to build a structure of state welfare and entitlements. Government health care. Extensive government controls over industry. Workers not having to work 40-hour weeks and getting an entire month paid vacation every year. [Ever go to Europe in August when NOBODY is working?]

The result has been massive government that is straining their financial stability. And, when government tries to takes measures to reduce government and governmental handouts, it leads to violent unrest.

Another problem is that Europeans reached the point where they no longer wanted to do the "dirty work" and allowed immigrants from Third World countries to do so. This immigrants have become the standard workers, each ethnic group seeking to retain their old mores and customs.

This is exactly the direction Obama and his advisers wish us to go! :confused:
 
The result has been massive government that is straining their financial stability. And, when government tries to takes measures to reduce government and governmental handouts, it leads to violent unrest.

well, lets remember the US is worse in some ways. We have higher corporate taxes, tax our top 1% more, and print money more freely than they do. At $16 trillion in debt headed to $50 trillion we have nothing to say as long as liberals are in charge and making things worse and worse!
 
If you can find a country that has a higher standard of living than ours and pays lower taxes, you shoud move there.
 
If you can find a country that has a higher standard of living than ours and pays lower taxes, you shoud move there.


we do well here in spite of the recent liberal enhancements, but the more liberal enhancements the more we begin to resemble Europe where for example beloved France has the per capita income of Arkansas, one of our poorest states.
 

Forum List

Back
Top