Should America try to emulate Germany's socialism?

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Oddsfish, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Oddsfish
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    Oddsfish Member

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    Recently there was a speaker (self-proclaimed socialist) going on about how America should strive to be more like Germany. He said their economy is fantastic, and socialism is why.


    Is this true?
     
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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  2. Oddsfish
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    Oddsfish Member

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    Can no one debunk this? I know I can't, but I thought one of you would be able to.
     
  3. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    What's interesting and what no one seems to want to discuss, is that all of the political and military "upheaval" in Europe in the 20th Century was DIRECTLY related to German Economic might.

    WWI
    WWII
    EURO Zone.
     
  4. usmcstinger
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    usmcstinger Silver Member

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    Where is your proof that Germany is continuing to use a Socialist Economy?
     
  5. Norman
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    Norman Gold Member

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    Are you sure this speaker wasn't from Greece? :lol:

    And no it's not. In fact Germany's government spending rate is only few percentage points higher than the US government's. But I agree that in some parts germany is actually better organized. You can't compare germany's national government to the federal government of USA really though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  6. Koios
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    Koios Recreational Kibitzer

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    It would require we be closer-in to other EU countries' markets. Germany can produce more, because its high-quality and thus more-expensive goods sell well, especially in Europe, where shipping US goods is costly to do.

    The US is therefore different, and far more consumer-based. However, we could benefit from being more socialized in our mixed economy, which Germany has too, albeit with greater emphasis on social welfare programs, which I'd advocate here, as well.

    In short, because we're a consumer-economy, our value is not in what we do, but in what we buy. And the more we empower our people to buy, the better our economic and business climate will be.
     
  7. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    It would not work here because our workers do not perform like german workers. There you dont have the excessive work rules we have in some of our unionized shops, nor do you have the massive overhead from public sector unions. Civil Service is seen as a privilidge in Germany, and attracts some of the best talent in thier population, compared to here, where it usually does not.
     
  8. Norman
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    Norman Gold Member

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    Well, only way a customer could get more demand from the thin air is by taxing the employee so that just doesn't work. And investing is what grows an economy, not spending. I have heard this fallacy too many times now.

    In any case it's completely idiotic to call germany socialist and USA capitalist. The difference between government spending to gdp is about 5%... And the ECB isn't half as bad as the FED in "socialistic" way.
     
  9. usmcstinger
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    usmcstinger Silver Member

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    This Socialist is complete ass hole.

    When Merkel came to power she said her government would be judged by how many jobs it created and by how much it had cut the deficit, and in her first 4 years she did a bang-up job! The German economy has been strong, has the lowest unemployment in Europe, and remains a powerhouse of the continent! Her pro-market, anti-labor policies have not garnered her any favor with the liberal left, but such is politics. However,* she also spent a lot of her time dealing with cultural/immigration issues and bailing out the crippled Eurozone┬ůmuch to the chagrin of an increasing number of German voters. And her stance on these issues?
    Angela Merkel | The Plaid Avenger
     
  10. Euroconservativ
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    What socialism, dude?

    Germans utterly reject Fed-style monetary policies. They reject a central bank with a mandate to stimulate the economy, create jobs and save irresponsible debt-addict politicians. There are probably more admirers of Von Mises and Hayek in the german Bundesbank than in the US Republican Party.

    It amazes me that a country (America) that is allowed to run 1 trillion budget deficits for 5 consecutive years (with little or no consequence at all) is still considered by many as the cradle of fiscal responsibility and conservatism.

    Both moderate german political parties and general public favor austerity and structural reforms over spending and huge deficits as the right to way to get out of recessions. And they are imposing their will in most Europe. They make no big drama if the GDP goes into recession for a couple of quarters.


    Let's see some of their late "socialist" policies:

    - Top personal income tax rate down from 53% in 1998 to 42%

    - Corporate tax rate down from 59% in the 1990s to 29%. The german federal corporate tax rate is 15% (from 25% in 2007), the second lowest in Europe after Switzerland (8.5%)

    - No taxation on capital gains until 2009. But the current taxable base is tiny.

    - Deregulation and decentralization of labour rules. The labor reform costed the SPD two million party members and 1/3 of votes, and some of its worst electoral defeats in history.

    - They have passed a balanced budget constitutional amendment, requiring a federal deficit below 0.35% of GDP from 2016.

    - Right now the United States total spending as a share of GDP is 38% (federal, state and local). The German total spending is 42% of GDP. Considering that Germany has a national VAT of 19% (collected at every stage of the economy), and that one third of revenue in the European Union comes from taxes on consumption. Every german citizen pays federal taxes.


    By the way, their Welfare is far from perfect. Health costs are out of control (12% of GDP and growing fast) because of low birth rates and an aging population. But they can still afford it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012

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