Should America Bid Farewell to Exceptional Freedom?

[PixieStix]

Exceptional FREEDOM?

The Bush-Cheney regime exhibited such extreme modes of governance in its embrace of an imperial presidency, its violation of domestic and international law, and its disdain for human rights and democratic values that it was hard to view such anti-democratic policies as part of a pervasive shift towards a hidden order of authoritarian politics, which historically has existed at the margins of American society. How else to label such a government other than shockingly and uniquely extremist, given its political legacy that included the rise of the security and torture state; the creation of legal illegalities in which civil liberties were trampled; the launching of an unjust war in Iraq legitimated through official lies; the passing of legislative policies that drained the federal surplus by giving away more than a trillion dollars in tax cuts to the rich; the enactment of a shameful policy of preemptive war; the endorsement of an inflated military budget at the expense of much-needed social programs; the selling off of as many government functions as possible to corporate interests; the resurrection of an imperial presidency; an incessant attack against unions; support for a muzzled and increasingly corporate-controlled media; government production of fake news reports to gain consent for regressive policies; use of an Orwellian vocabulary for disguising monstrous acts such as torture ("enhanced interrogation techniques"); furtherance of a racist campaign of legal harassment and incarceration of Arabs, Muslims and immigrants; advancement of a prison binge through a repressive policy of criminalization; establishment of an unregulated and ultimately devastating form of casino capitalism; the arrogant celebration and support for the interests and values of big business at the expense of citizens and the common good, and the dismantling of social services and social safety nets as part of a larger campaign of ushering in the corporate state and the reign of finance capital.

Blah ... buh blah blah blah .... blah blah blah blah.... buh blah blah blah ......

Well, this response provides more evidenc that my assessment of you as a STUPID asshole is spot on. And another thing, buh (oops, sic) blah, blah...

You sir are an obamunist pig

 

[Meister]

Wait ... doesn't he have to start a thread ....

Wry hasn't told you how debt independent he is? He hasn't told you that he was a cop and knows the legallities of the constitution? The guy must be mellowing in his old age.
I doubt there is a more condescending person on this board than Wry.

 

[boedicca]

Freedom like most concepts is an abstraction useful only in context. Personally the OP was the largest amount of whining about nothing I have tried to read in a long time. Isn't it curious how doing good things for all Americans means a loss of freedom for some? The mental math that does that was missing from my genome - thankfully.


"Where freedom is real, equality is the passion of the masses. Where equality is real, freedom is the passion of a small minority." Eric Hoffer

Isn't it curious how those who wish others to foot the bill disdain and demean those others?

Promoting good things financed (unwillingly) by the productivity of others is what Users do. If they really felt that strongly about helping, they'd do it first hand with their own time.

 

[Avatar4321]

Freedom like most concepts is an abstraction useful only in context. Personally the OP was the largest amount of whining about nothing I have tried to read in a long time. Isn't it curious how doing good things for all Americans means a loss of freedom for some? The mental math that does that was missing from my genome - thankfully.


"Where freedom is real, equality is the passion of the masses. Where equality is real, freedom is the passion of a small minority." Eric Hoffer

First, you aren't doing good things for all Americans.

Second, it's obvious how it's a loss of freedom and has been articulated many times within this thread. Simply because you dont understand why not having a choose about whether you want health care or not is a loss a freedom, doesn't mean the rest of the nation is as ignorant as you are. Likewise, how do you not see a loss of freedom when people are forced to work on behalf of others against their will?

The real question is how is it NOT a loss of freedom when you have a choice taken away from you?

 

[RodISHI]

Hey Gun boy, let's kill 2 turds with one stone...let's implement a national ID card with a "Do NOT treat" signature clause. If you refuse to buy health insurance, and then you are injured in an accident, paramedics can look at the card and leave you morons to die, instead of expecting me and every other American to pay for your medical treatment.

That is an idea but let us add this clause in there that doctors also get to make that decision whether they will work/treat for those who don't go with that national planned insurance and those who choose to work under the thumb of big insurance government daddy?

Since we are all free to make these choices then doctors and patients alike should be able to make up their own choice and preferences.

Since we have people that want national insurance (TAX) programs and those who don't want national insurance (TAX) programs we should have options for the care providers also who choose to work in that system or out of that system.

Bigger and more government plus more taxes on the people is not the answer.

I think everyone who voted for Obama should have their taxes increased to pay for their beloved health care insurance programs...and leave the rest of us out of it.

It's only fair....and isn't fairness what we're after anyways.

Fair enough we can do that.

 

[Old Rocks]

What good does it do to pass civil rights legislation in the 1960s, only to turn around and enslave everyone in 2010?

But just keep playing the Race Card - it's clear it's the only one in your deck.

How old are you? 13?

Want to play with hyperbole? It was the Bush admin that created the Patriot Act. The name alone should be enough to raise the hackles on anyone sane.

So we are 1/3 of the way to joining the other industrial democratic nations that have real health care systems. Only another two thirds, and the US can join the rest of the sane would that have real health care systems.

 

[midcan5]

Freedom is such a wonderful word and the loss of freedom is just so horrible that none of the whiners above can even say what freedoms they have lost?

Could there be freedoms that are not good for instance? Say greed or a lack of social responsibility. Society, government, the state, if they are to function for all, will always cost each citizen according to their means. There is no loss of freedom in being responsible.

Bravo for the beginning of a fairer, more just, and for many a freer life.


"What improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable." Adam Smith 'The Wealth of Nations,' Book I Chapter VIII

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Exceptional Freedom?

Is that like Super duper mega colossal Freedom?

He's talking about the freedom we've been steadily losing due to people like you.

You seem like a young guy..

Which freedoms have you lost that you used to enjoy?

Who said I ever enjoyed them? I said this has been going on for a long time. The American people have constantly lost more and more freedom as time goes on. Of course, the most obvious recent example is the passage of ObamaCare.

But let's go further back. When the government started forcing people to have their children educated the way they said they should that was a loss of freedom. When LBJ created the Great Society programs and began forcing people to pay for the laziness and ineptitude of others that was a loss of freedom. When cities like Chicago have blanket gun bans that is a loss of freedom. When states ban smoking in privately owned establishments that is a loss of freedom. When I was a kid I can remember a few times riding in the back of a pick up truck. North Carolina just made that illegal. That's a loss of freedom. When the police will come and arrest you for spanking your kid that is a loss of freedom. When a town can't have a Christmas display up because one atheist in the community has a bug up their ass about having to see it, that's a loss of freedom. Political correctness is a loss of freedom. The verdict in Kelo vs New London was a loss of freedom.

I can go on if you want, but you get the point whether you'll admit it or not.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Freedom is such a wonderful word and the loss of freedom is just so horrible that none of the whiners above can even say what freedoms they have lost?

See above

Could there be freedoms that are not good for instance? Say greed or a lack of social responsibility. Society, government, the state, if they are to function for all, will always cost each citizen according to their means.

There is no loss of freedom in being responsible.

Responsible according to who? Your lousy socialist ass? And exactly who is it that is engaging in greed? Is it the people who expect to be able to keep the fruits of their labor or the thieves like you who think your entitled to what somebody else earned while you sat your ass.

Bravo for the beginning of a fairer, more just, and for many a freer life.

No, what you want is fascist, authoritarian control.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Notice the lack of reply to my post on what freedom was taken by the dictator, Lord Obama.

Is that a future post, or are you referring to your childish tantrum about being free to shirk YOUR personal responsibility and stick everyone ELSE with YOUR medical costs? You lazy fucking welfare queen socialist commie...

This coming from a fucking retard who can't even get a job and pull his own fat ass weight in society....too fucking funny.

 

[Immanuel]

Notice the lack of reply to my post on what freedom was taken by the dictator, Lord Obama.

Is that a future post, or are you referring to your childish tantrum about being free to shirk YOUR personal responsibility and stick everyone ELSE with YOUR medical costs? You lazy fucking welfare queen socialist commie...

This coming from a fucking retard who can't even get a job and pull his own fat ass weight in society....too fucking funny.

As one who is currently unemployed due to the economic conditions this country currently faces, I find this post offensive. Just sayin'

I don't know anything at all about Bfgrn, but things are tough out there and I know I am struggling to get back to work. It will come... hopefully sooner rather than later.

Immie

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Is that a future post, or are you referring to your childish tantrum about being free to shirk YOUR personal responsibility and stick everyone ELSE with YOUR medical costs? You lazy fucking welfare queen socialist commie...

This coming from a fucking retard who can't even get a job and pull his own fat ass weight in society....too fucking funny.

As one who is currently unemployed due to the economic conditions this country currently faces, I find this post offensive. Just sayin'

I don't know anything at all about Bfgrn, but things are tough out there and I know I am struggling to get back to work. It will come... hopefully sooner rather than later.

Immie

Well...you shouldn't find it offensive at all...at least you are willing to work whereas the bfgrn only wants a hand out on my fucking dime.

JUST SAYIN'

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Quote:
This presumptuous reform has put this nation ... once dedicated to the life and freedom of every person ... on a long decline toward the same mediocrity that the social welfare states of Europe have become.

Total nonsense

To a welfare state advocate...yes.

 

[MaggieMae]

I wonder who was being locked up while you liberals were whining and crying about it while Bush was President? Remember when you guys were lying about all the freedoms you lost when HLS was passed? Wire taps? Yet have nothing when your man does the same thing.

BTW, when is Gitmo being closed? Or how about the troops? When are still waiting for the parades that would follow the withdraw Obama and democrats promised us.

Typical lib. Open mouth and the lies flow like released dam water.

You have to understand, they didnt really give a damn about those things. They were just talking points they adopted to attack President Bush.

I thought we weren't supposed to talk about Bush on this message board.

 

[Immanuel]

This coming from a fucking retard who can't even get a job and pull his own fat ass weight in society....too fucking funny.

As one who is currently unemployed due to the economic conditions this country currently faces, I find this post offensive. Just sayin'

I don't know anything at all about Bfgrn, but things are tough out there and I know I am struggling to get back to work. It will come... hopefully sooner rather than later.

Immie

Well...you shouldn't find it offensive at all...at least you are willing to work whereas the bfgrn only wants a hand out on my fucking dime.

JUST SAYIN'

Like I said, I don't know anything at all about Bfgrn, but I want to go back to work.

What would be really nice is to get a job offer say Monday morning and start back to work a week from Monday, so that I can actually have a week's vacation. This job hunting shit is not easy work.

Immie

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You are still complaining about a right that you yourself have not lost. It is totally relevant

Wrong-o Boy-o.

A right doesn't exist only when exercised.

You yourself have lost nothing...you have no intent of exercising this so called right and neither do any other conservatives

You're right...we work for a living, make wise career choices and save our money for tough times...unlike people like you who only live and work for the moment and live the me me me me me me me me me I I I I I I I I I gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme lifestyle. Now perhaps you understand why this whole progressive/socialist turn the country is taking pisses us off.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's not surprising that someone who is Exceptionally Stupid would fail to GROK the Exceptional Freedom that Americans have experienced. It is unusual in human history for average people to be as free as we once were; and it's a shame to see our government actively destroying that freedom via abuse of power.

You are SOOOOO right!

it pains to me to recount all the freedoms we have lost to obama and the liberal democrats...


like...

er...

uh....

the freedom to....

er....

uh...

and the freedom to.....

er....

uh.....

well

I can't actually think of any at the moment but I KNOW in my deranged conservative brain that there are a LOT of them!

The freedom to keep what I earn and not have to pay for those who wont get off their ass to earn their own.

Obama did that? I seem to recall there were 43 other administrations before him, each of which embraced the same concept.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You are SOOOOO right!

it pains to me to recount all the freedoms we have lost to obama and the liberal democrats...


like...

er...

uh....

the freedom to....

er....

uh...

and the freedom to.....

er....

uh.....

well

I can't actually think of any at the moment but I KNOW in my deranged conservative brain that there are a LOT of them!

The freedom to keep what I earn and not have to pay for those who wont get off their ass to earn their own.

Obama did that? I seem to recall there were 43 other administrations before him, each of which embraced the same concept.

Wrong!!!!!

Not a single one of them embraced mandatory healthcare with fines for non compliance. try again.

 

[MaggieMae]

The freedom to determine my own health. The freedom to build. The freedom to choose who to work for. The freedom over intrusive government. The freedom to determine my own destiny.

How have you lost those?

Be sick; just make sure you don't cost the rest of us tens of thousands because you never thought you would get sick and therefore never got yourself insured.

Build anything you want? Who's stopping you from trying? Of course you might run into a few local ordinances against putting up a parking lot between two starter castles, but hey a little common sense goes along with rules. But, again, you're welcome to "try" and thus have lost no "freedom."

Does "the government" intrude in your livingroom or bedroom? Hell, you can still smoke, if you want, just pay more for the habit if you're going to make other people sick because of it.

And lastly, you still have more "freedom over your own destiny" than any other country on earth.

You'll need to be much more specific than just repeating mantras.

 

[MaggieMae]

What freedoms has President Obama taken from you?

The freedom to choose whether we want health care or not for one.

The freedom to produce our own energy another.

The freedom to be represented by our representatives.

Yeah, it always comes back to that pesky health care mandate. Frankly, I'm still on the fence because I do know that in order for it to work, everybody needs to be included; on the other hand, I don't think it will work because too many people just won't be included on principle alone.

As for energy, which party is it that continues to stall an energy bill that would jump start energy independence?

As for your third iteration, if you don't like your representation, there's that thing called a voting booth. You are still free to VOTE, and Obama doesn't MAKE YOU vote for anyone. Hello?