Shooting in France....? But, they have gun control...right? At a Christmas Market?

See post #25.
Post the murder rate in France
Irrelevant
The topic is effectiveness of gun control in France. Post their murder rate.


You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
 
Post the murder rate in France
Irrelevant
The topic is effectiveness of gun control in France. Post their murder rate.


You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.
 
Irrelevant
The topic is effectiveness of gun control in France. Post their murder rate.


You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
 
This is just breaking...a shooting in France...I would wait to post about it, but sadly, the anti-gun extremists never let a mass shooting go to waste, so must be replied to whenever these things happen....

BREAKING: Shooting At Christmas Market In France

We have reports of a shooting at a Christmas market in France. The attack occurred in Strasbourg. It’s been described as a “serious security event.” One person is reported dead (via The Guardian):

---------

1 dead, at least 10 injured in shooting near Christmas market in Strasbourg, France

One person is dead and at least 10 injured in a shooting in the center of the French city of Strasbourg on the German border on Tuesday, according to a local fire department.

"Incident taking place. Please stay calm and await official communications," officials tweeted.



The shooting took place near Strasbourg's Christmas market, which attracts millions of tourists every year, a French security official told Reuters.
------

"I was in the back of the restaurant when I heard gunshots. I think it was the sound of an automatic weapon.
What’s the murder rate in France
Rising.
Dramatic 20 Percent Rise in Homicides in France
 
The topic is effectiveness of gun control in France. Post their murder rate.


You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France
 
This is just breaking...a shooting in France...I would wait to post about it, but sadly, the anti-gun extremists never let a mass shooting go to waste, so must be replied to whenever these things happen....

BREAKING: Shooting At Christmas Market In France

We have reports of a shooting at a Christmas market in France. The attack occurred in Strasbourg. It’s been described as a “serious security event.” One person is reported dead (via The Guardian):

---------

1 dead, at least 10 injured in shooting near Christmas market in Strasbourg, France

One person is dead and at least 10 injured in a shooting in the center of the French city of Strasbourg on the German border on Tuesday, according to a local fire department.

"Incident taking place. Please stay calm and await official communications," officials tweeted.



The shooting took place near Strasbourg's Christmas market, which attracts millions of tourists every year, a French security official told Reuters.
------

"I was in the back of the restaurant when I heard gunshots. I think it was the sound of an automatic weapon.
What’s the murder rate in France
Rising.
Dramatic 20 Percent Rise in Homicides in France


Thank you....I didn't want to indulge his dumb argument....but thanks for finding the statistic......it just makes my point even stronger....
 
You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


Again, you think that if a criminal has an illegal gun, which they do in France, that they must use it to murder each and every victim they victimize....that isn't the case..... the culture of French criminals is different .... .as are British criminals, and Japanese criminals and American criminals, especially when it comes to murder.
 
You are making a false assumption that gun control impacts the gun murder rate....since criminals have illegal guns, that means ...they have guns....wether they choose to use them to commit murder is a completely different topic ......since their gun control laws are not keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
 
What is the murder rate in France


Why?
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
 
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Nope...... it has no bearing on gun control..... again...

France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================

France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
 
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Nope...... it has no bearing on gun control..... again...

France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================

France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
 
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
If France were Demographically, and Socially similar to the U.S. with a similar population, then I might think that matters. Since it is extremely different from the U.S. it is irrelevant.

It is like comparing one U.S. state to another, or a U.S. state to a foreign country. Absolutely irrelevant, as you could pick states with large metro areas with high black, on black inner city violent crime which would totally skew the numbers. Ever work with statistics for your job?
 
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
If France were Demographically, and Socially similar to the U.S. with a similar population, then I might think that matters. Since it is extremely different from the U.S. it is irrelevant.

It is like comparing one U.S. state to another, or a U.S. state to a foreign country. Absolutely irrelevant, as you could pick states with large metro areas with high black, on black inner city violent crime which would totally skew the numbers. Ever work with statistics for your job?


they aren't interested in the truth......they are just trying to hide the fact that with extreme gun control in France, and all through Europe.....criminals in France have easy access to fully automatic military rifles, and grenades, and terrorists, with 29 convictions in 3 different countries on the French government terrorist watch list get guns easier than normal, law abiding French citizens...which defeats the entire reason for the extreme gun control in the first place...

But, by trying to focus on murder rates, they get to pretend that gun control works....when, as you point out, there is no connection when the criminals don't commit murder......with a gun or without...
 
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Nope...... it has no bearing on gun control..... again...

France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================

France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
 
How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Nope...... it has no bearing on gun control..... again...

France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================

France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Of the two of us....you are the one afraid to talk about gun control.....


France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

Five things to know about guns in France

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
 
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Nope...... it has no bearing on gun control..... again...

France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================

France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns. The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France


Of the two of us....you are the one afraid to talk about gun control.....


France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?


How did the attackers get the guns?

Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.

“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”

----

The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18

Five things to know about guns in France

4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
 
To see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.

How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France


From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104

Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.

While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.

The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”

Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”

“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
You are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in France
fuck-the-french-~jam-6778542.png
 
This is just breaking...a shooting in France...I would wait to post about it, but sadly, the anti-gun extremists never let a mass shooting go to waste, so must be replied to whenever these things happen....

BREAKING: Shooting At Christmas Market In France

We have reports of a shooting at a Christmas market in France. The attack occurred in Strasbourg. It’s been described as a “serious security event.” One person is reported dead (via The Guardian):

---------

1 dead, at least 10 injured in shooting near Christmas market in Strasbourg, France

One person is dead and at least 10 injured in a shooting in the center of the French city of Strasbourg on the German border on Tuesday, according to a local fire department.

"Incident taking place. Please stay calm and await official communications," officials tweeted.



The shooting took place near Strasbourg's Christmas market, which attracts millions of tourists every year, a French security official told Reuters.
------

"I was in the back of the restaurant when I heard gunshots. I think it was the sound of an automatic weapon.
Spiking the ball right on cue. Has there ever been a murder in a civilized country that didn`t give you a woody?
 

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