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Shooting in France....? But, they have gun control...right? At a Christmas Market?
- Thread starter 2aguy
- Start date
jon_berzerk
Platinum Member
- Mar 5, 2013
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In France, civilians are not allowed to possess weapons of war, certain handguns and long guns, automatic firearms, firearms disguised as other objects, and armour-piercing, incendiary and expanding ammunition1
hymm odd wording showing up over here lately
France is under special police powers to guard against terrorism.
The guy was a convicted felon.
The guy was on the governments terrorist watch list.....
yet he got a gun and hand grenades
OldLady
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2015
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“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie.A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in FranceTo see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.
How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Why are gangs getting out of control everywhere?
It isn't because of guns or a lack of them.
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
- 5,894
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- Banned
- #124
You can always smell the French before you see themYou are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in FranceA failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in FranceHow do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Where do you get your old fashioned outdated stereotypes from?
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
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- Banned
- #125
The collective isn’t worth a shit“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie.A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in FranceTo see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.Why?
How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Why are gangs getting out of control everywhere?
It isn't because of guns or a lack of them.
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #126
You can always smell the French before you see themYou are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in FranceA failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in France
From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Where do you get your old fashioned outdated stereotypes from?
Rustic
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2015
- 58,769
- 5,894
- 1,940
- Banned
- #127
You can always smell the French before you see themYou are absolutely terrified to post the murder rate in FranceFrom ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Where do you get your old fashioned outdated stereotypes from?
You can put lipstick on the pig, but it’s still a pig... I suppose the same could be said about body odor
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 111,965
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- Thread starter
- #129
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie.A failure? Then they must have a high murder rate. What is the murder rate in FranceTo see if their gun control has led to out of control murder. Post it please.Why?
How do you make the connection between the two? Criminals in France have millions of guns...they seem not to use them to murder people. Hence, there is no connection between gun control and the murder rate if the criminals simply choose not to use their illegal guns to murder people. The success of gun control is wether criminals can get guns....in France, they get guns....their gun control laws are a failure.
From ThunderKiss1965.... post #104
Newly released statistics from the French Interior Ministry have revealed a massive 20 percent increase in French homicides compared to the period of 2014 to 2015.
The statistics for 2017-2018 reveal the 20 percent increase from 2014-2015, an unexpected increase for the French government which expected the murder rate following the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks in Paris and Nice to return to previous levels, French newspaper Libération reports.
While in the last few months homicides have decreased overall, statistician Cyril Rizk has claimed that there has been a clear rise in murder over the year compared to a general declining trend in the last fifteen years or so. He claimed that the current homicide rate, even when terrorism is excluded, is above the rate in the five years before 2015.
The surge in homicides has largely gone unnoticed in France, with Rizk explaining that “the fight against terrorism has become the number one security issue, relegating everyday security issues to the background.”
Rizk added that there has been a general trend of increased homicides in several western European countries saying, “the decline in the number of homicides was until 2015 a phenomenon of substance that characterized the countries of Western Europe. It can not be ruled out that in a context of mass casualties, the latent level of non-terrorist lethal violence has been influenced.”
“We particularly think of homicides committed by organised crime when settling scores. Their number is also rising sharply according to the figures of the police and the gendarmerie. It almost doubled between September 2015 and September 2018, reaching almost 100 victims in the last twelve months,” he added.
Why are gangs getting out of control everywhere?
It isn't because of guns or a lack of them.
The left wing policies of these governments. They cut police resources and manpower, because their social welfare states eat up all the money...and then they handicap the police with more and more Politically Correct policies...which is why they now have No-Go zones in Paris...where the police can't go for fear of the muslim communities...
All France's own fault.
When a Muslim country like that allows a Christmas fair they gotta expect grief.
When a Muslim country like that allows a Christmas fair they gotta expect grief.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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- Thread starter
- #132
Where did he get the Kalashnikov from?
Seems like it might have been a pistol.....you could ask, where did he get the hand grenades.....
Semi auto pistols are illegal in France too.....
It said on the news it was a Kalashnikov.
And his home was full of explosives.
Was it? I haven't seen that anywhere and I was wondering when they would say what he used.....thanks.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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- Thread starter
- #134
you keep bringing up arguments FOR gun control
France's murder rate is many times LOWER than the US
And you keep bringing up false logic. Frances murder rate, by the way, is up 20%..... but regardless of that, why do you assume that just because the criminals in France can get all the guns they want, that they shoot every victim they rob?
They have illegal guns...lots of them.
They use those illegal guns for crime....
They don't use those illegal guns, which they already have, to actually commit murder....
Where in that do you guys keep getting lost?
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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- Thread starter
- #135
you keep bringing up arguments FOR gun control
France's murder rate is many times LOWER than the US
How does the murder rate have anything to do with the failure of their gun control laws?
France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?
How did the attackers get the guns?
Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.
“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”
----
The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france
4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.
===========
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.
“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”
============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.
The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.
-------------=================
France’s real gun problem
Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.
The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/
France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.
Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years.
Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.
“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
- 111,965
- 52,236
- 2,290
- Thread starter
- #136
you keep bringing up arguments FOR gun control
France's murder rate is many times LOWER than the US
How does the murder rate have anything to do with the failure of their gun control laws?
France has strict gun laws. Why didn’t that save Charlie Hebdo victims?
How did the attackers get the guns?
Almost certainly illegally. Bloomberg reports that weapons designed for military use, such as the Kalashnikov AK series, have been illegally flooding France over the past few years, with state bodies recording double digit increases.
“The French black market for weapons has been inundated with eastern European war artillery and arms,” Philippe Capon, the head of UNSA police union, told Bloomberg. “They are everywhere in France.”
----
The number of illegal guns is thought to be at least twice the number of legal guns in the country. Weapons such as AK-47s can be bought for the equivalent of a few thousand dollars.
3/10/18
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171004/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-france
4. Millions of illegal weapons
France is awash with illegal weapons, with some experts saying that the number of illegal guns may be twice the number of legal ones.
Weapons such as Kalashnikovs, many of which were originally used in the Balkan wars in the 1990s, can be bought for less than 3,000 euros on the black market.
Kalashnikovs are the weapon of choice in deadly score-settling between rival drug gangs in the southern port city of Marseille.
The assault rifles were also the main weapon used in the radical Islamist terror attacks in France in recent years.
The worst single mass shooting took place in the Bataclan concert hall in Paris in November 2015, when gunmen sprayed concert-goers with bullets, killing 89 of them. Dozens more were killed in other attacks the same night in the French capital.
===========
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.
“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”
============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems
The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.
The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.
-------------=================
France’s real gun problem
Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.
The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/
France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.
Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years.
Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.
“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.
jon_berzerk
Platinum Member
- Mar 5, 2013
- 31,401
- 7,368
- 1,130
Where did he get the Kalashnikov from?
Seems like it might have been a pistol.....you could ask, where did he get the hand grenades.....
Semi auto pistols are illegal in France too.....
It said on the news it was a Kalashnikov.
And his home was full of explosives.
Was it? I haven't seen that anywhere and I was wondering when they would say what he used.....thanks.
heard it was an AK as well had hand grenades and explosives in the home
felon and on the terror watchlist
but yet the strict licensing laws and firearm restrictions did not slow this guy down
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