Shame On Us

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sagegirl, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. sagegirl
    Offline

    sagegirl Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    515
    Thanks Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +42
    I cannot let this day go by without expressing a grave concern about our voting process. We profess an almost sacred belief in our right to vote and that every vote be counted. (I know there are those who assert we have no constitutional "right" to vote, so that aside) We are currently at war to liberate Iraq and give them the right to vote. We brag that we succeeded in bringing the vote to Afghanistan. We have sent representatives to young democracies or ones in trouble to insure that elections are held in a safe and fair manner. So what about us????????

    Reports of intentional voter fraud or interference are rampant. A small percentage of error is always likely to occur by failures of the system but .....
    that aside. I will not excuse either the dems or the repubs, whether the fraud was an "inside job" or outsourced. In some precincts on the spot challengers can dispute a persons right to vote. Already, there is speculation that there will be legally disputed results in today's election if the vote appears close.

    So the problem clearly exists within our system. We should all make it a priority to standardize voter registration, voting registration could be both a national registration system and a state/precinct level. Much like a social security number a voter could be assigned a voter card....like a credit card with a voter ID number.....Anyone who has previously established themselves (registered)as a voter at the local level using thier "voter ID" would be almost transparent to this system but a voter with no traceable registration could vote their "provisional ballot" . (I personally dont agree with this concept, I would require pre registration of at least 4 weeks prior to an election.... anyone who cant get it together by some established deadline just loses out, its their own fault. ) The voter ID system could be used to determine the validity of a provisonal ballot.

    The device used to vote is also in great dispute. I know of one successful method.....A paper ballot that has circles to be filled in with pencil (our old high school SAT's) This ballot is inserted into a machine that reads it right at the polling location....if it is read successfully the paper ballot is kept for any recounts and the electronic data stored in the machine is readily available for a speedy count when the polls close. A ballot that cannot be read for some reason or another is immediately referred to the judge at the polling location and usually the problem can be resolved or, as an alternate solution ,the paper ballot can be separated to be manually counted later. Sure there can be problems with any system. I think the actual ballot should be kept simple and the tabulation should be done ,with oversight, using our best technology.

    This is an issue that could unite all of us. It serves both sides equally well. We all want to be sure our vote counts and the best way to do that is to make sure everyones vote counts.
     
  2. freeandfun1
    Offline

    freeandfun1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,201
    Thanks Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +296
    all politics are local. if you start forcing a national standard on every localality, you are getting totally away from the idea of what the founding fathers wanted.
     
  3. Flying Duck
    Offline

    Flying Duck Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2004
    Messages:
    303
    Thanks Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +50
    I disagree. I think that some rational, common sense guidleines are definitely in order: (At least when federal elections are involved.)

    - A system to ensure voters do not vote in multiple states/counties/municipalities

    - A standardized process for valdiating voter regitration

    - Stanrdardized requirments for eligibility (citizneship, actually existing, being alive, etc...) Sounds ridiculous but isn't given our current reality

    - Requiring valid ID at polling places

    - Standardized audit trial requirments - regardless of which voting system a state chooses to adopt.
     
  4. freeandfun1
    Offline

    freeandfun1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    6,201
    Thanks Received:
    295
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +296
    True, but there is NO SUCH thing as federal elections. All elections are local!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. sagegirl
    Offline

    sagegirl Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    515
    Thanks Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +42
    You say you disagree, but actually these would be the requirements for getting that voter ID card. They wouldnt be passing them out on street corners....I would think this would fit right in with the idea of some provisions of the Patriot Act, but thats a whole other subject.
     
  6. musicman
    Offline

    musicman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,171
    Thanks Received:
    533
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +533


    I'm with you. The clear intent of the framers was "the government that governs best, governs least". In other words, to the degree that a community's affairs can be directed by and for the individuals of that community, self-government actually means something. That's what makes the ACLU, and the activist Judiciary, such a gang of maggots. They attempt to circumvent that process at every turn in the road.

    Not only that - I believe that standardized voting systems - once we determine just who the hell's gonna pay for them - would be that much easier to corrupt on a grand scale. The community, man - the community.
     
  7. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,542
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,157
    We should have some way to protect against voter fraud by people being registered in multiple places.
     
  8. Merlin1047
    Offline

    Merlin1047 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    3,500
    Thanks Received:
    449
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    AL
    Ratings:
    +450
    Free - I'm not happy with you. You have put me in the strange and somewhat embarrassing position of having to agree with Sage. ;)

    I will not argue your premise that all elections are local although I do not entirely agree. But the fact is that in presidential elections, voters from any part of the country have an impact on the rest of the country. Therefore voter fraud committed in Chicago has an impact on me down here in God's country just as it has an impact on you.

    Honest elections are not only in the best interest of the people, but also in the best interest of the nation. You have already seen four years of bitching by liberals over the last election which, although I believe it was honest, was certainly controversial. If you and I could no longer believe that our president was elected by votes which had been cast legitimately, then I believe that our nation would disintegrate and that the next civil war would not be too far in the future.

    To that end, I believe we should do what we can to standardize the process. That way the libs can't bitch about hanging chads, oversight would be easier and special interest groups could not claim their votes were being suppressed by complex ballots.

    I do believe that standardization, better control of the registration process and better and more stringent voter ID requirements ultimately favor those who seek an honest election. And I believe that means that conservatives would be the main beneficiaries since the Democratic party has shown itself to be a pack of conscienceless whores who will bastardize any principle of democracy because ultimately, in their eyes, the end justifies any means.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. musicman
    Offline

    musicman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,171
    Thanks Received:
    533
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +533


    That's actually being done in Ohio as we speak. A federal judge (a Clinton appointee - surprise, surprise) attempted to block challenges to voter registration based on reasonable suspicions - in direct contradiction of state law. An appellate court overturned her VERY early this morning, just hours before the polls opened.

    The protections are - to a great degree - already in place. All we've got to do is abide by the law AS WRITTEN.

    Avatar, you know the law. Why aren't some of these "activist" judges - who clearly overstep their boundaries - being censured or impeached?
     
  10. dilloduck
    Offline

    dilloduck Diamond Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    53,240
    Thanks Received:
    5,552
    Trophy Points:
    1,850
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Ratings:
    +6,403
    It would be nice if there were not so many people out there PURPOSELY obsfucating the voting process. Legal bullshit ALWAYS leave the individual out of the process. I can live with some standardization and punishment for those who interfere ! How many of the actions that will be filed today will fall in the FRIVOLOUS category?? Is America about the exceptions or the Rule ?
     

Share This Page