Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapy

[George Costanza]

"Sexual orientation conversion therapy" is exactly what it sounds like - therapy designed to modify a person's sexual orientation. California has a law banning it in the case of minors. Recently, a federal judge issued a temporary injunction against the ban, opening the way for concerned parents to take their children to "sexual orientation therapists" if they feel the child may be heading toward the other side of the sexual fence.

Judge blocks ban on gay 'conversion' therapy - latimes.com

Some really interesting issues come out of all this, the most obvious being that the very concept of sexual orientation conversion therapy is based on the assumption that sexual orientation is a choice and can be reversed if the "wrong" choice has been made or the individual is headed in the wrong direction. This assumption is controversial, of course. Most scientific studies on the subject have established that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice but rather of genetics. Many disagree with these studies, holding that sexual orientation is a matter of choice.

In any event - even if sexual orientation is a matter of genetics and not choice, does that mean it cannot be reversed? Studies have shown that while obesity is more probably caused by heredity than enviornment, it can still be reversed by dieting and proper eating habits.

Setting those issues aside, what about the propriety of parents forcing their children to go through sexual orientation conversion therapy when, perhaps, the child might not want to do so? Doesn't a parent have the right to raise their child the way they see fit? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It depends. Few would argue that parents who were attempting to train their child to be a serial killer were acting properly while few would argue against parents attempting to teach their child to appreciate organized religion or to be a good athelete.

How do you feel about "sexual oreintation conversion therapy"? (To be honest, I didn't even know it existed until reading the above article.)

 

[Political Junky]

It's a multi-million dollar business ... emphasis on business.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

First, I must say you've approached the issue pretty even-handedly. While to extremists that won't matter, to more rational people, it will.

That said, parents have been known to "force" their children to do lots of things: pick up their room, eat spinach, sit in "time out", go to church, do their homework, suffer cigarette burns, tolerate their siblings, mow the lawn, be touched inappropriately, etc. Some of those things are abusive, and some are not. The point is that the language "forced" has a negative connotation from the outset, even if the intent is perfectly healthy.

Additionally, let's say for the sake of argument that homosexuality is genetically influenced, and that it has been proven. Even in this case, does that mean that 100% of all gays are genetically predisposed to it? Of course not. To varying degrees, adult sexual preferences and behaviors can and do get influenced by childhood experiences and environments, so why is homosexuality an exception? As for environment, in today's culture, same-gender sexual "experimenting" is far more acceptable, even titillating, among women than it is among men. Is it coincidental that I am far more likely to see sexual behavior between two women portrayed in a movie than between two men? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad about that, but I think you get my point.

Again, you have treated the subject pretty evenly in your OP, but let's be honest, I'm sure you rest just a little left of center on this one, just like I rest just a little right. No, I do not see such therapy, in and of itself, as "abuse." I do, however, see the potential for abuse taking place in such a scenario, and it would be wise to be observant.

 

[mjollnir]

It's a fraud designed to remove dollars from gullible religious people. File is next to "Intelligent Design"

Nothing new there.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It’s troubling that some would perceive the ‘therapy’ warranted in the first place.

 

[Mad Scientist]

A family member of mine successfully turned away from the Gay "lifestyle" and I know a girl at work who did the same (sorry guys, she's not good lookin') but what I get from this thread, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this:

People CAN be Born Hetero and BECOME Gay.
People CANNOT be Born Gay and BECOME Hetero.

That person has either Been Gay all his life and suppressed it but no f*ckin' way has ANYONE been Straight his whole life and suppressed it. Oh you think a young person today WOULDN'T say he or she was Gay just to get along? They would.

So is that about rite?

 

[Mad Scientist]

It’s troubling that some would perceive the ‘therapy’ warranted in the first place.

Why would it be "troubling"?

Quick question for you: If you and your wife were expecting a child and the Doctors told you they can flip a DNA Switch that will GUARANTEE the Sexual Orintation of the child, which would choose?

There's no WAY I'd chose Homosexuality for MY kid.

 

[Political Junky]

A family member of mine successfully turned away from the Gay "lifestyle" and I know a girl at work who did the same (sorry guys, she's not good lookin') but what I get from this thread, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this:

People CAN be Born Hetero and BECOME Gay.
People CANNOT be Born Gay and BECOME Hetero.

That person has either Been Gay all his life and suppressed it but no f*ckin' way has ANYONE been Straight his whole life and suppressed it. Oh you think a young person today WOULDN'T say he or she was Gay just to get along? They would.

So is that about rite?

Many of those who "turned away from the gay Lifestyle" have been found frequenting gay bars. It's sad that a gay person would hate themselves so, that they'd pretend to have been "cured".

 

[Si modo]

"Sexual orientation conversion therapy" is exactly what it sounds like - therapy designed to modify a person's sexual orientation. California has a law banning it in the case of minors. Recently, a federal judge issued a temporary injunction against the ban, opening the way for concerned parents to take their children to "sexual orientation therapists" if they feel the child may be heading toward the other side of the sexual fence.

Judge blocks ban on gay 'conversion' therapy - latimes.com

Some really interesting issues come out of all this, the most obvious being that the very concept of sexual orientation conversion therapy is based on the assumption that sexual orientation is a choice and can be reversed if the "wrong" choice has been made or the individual is headed in the wrong direction. This assumption is controversial, of course. Most scientific studies on the subject have established that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice but rather of genetics. Many disagree with these studies, holding that sexual orientation is a matter of choice.

In any event - even if sexual orientation is a matter of genetics and not choice, does that mean it cannot be reversed? Studies have shown that while obesity is more probably caused by heredity than enviornment, it can still be reversed by dieting and proper eating habits.

Setting those issues aside, what about the propriety of parents forcing their children to go through sexual orientation conversion therapy when, perhaps, the child might not want to do so? Doesn't a parent have the right to raise their child the way they see fit? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It depends. Few would argue that parents who were attempting to train their child to be a serial killer were acting properly while few would argue against parents attempting to teach their child to appreciate organized religion or to be a good athelete.

How do you feel about "sexual oreintation conversion therapy"? (To be honest, I didn't even know it existed until reading the above article.)

Not that I agree with the idea of the therapy (I wouldn't personally suggest it to a loved one), but this sort of ban bothers me on a different level.

I do NOT want the government telling health care providers what sort of treatments and/or procedures they can and cannot do on a patient (at least any more than they already do).

These are self-governing professionals. The state needs to butt out.

 

[del]

my phrenologist recommended this, but i averred.

 

[Missourian]

FWIW, this is the line of reasoning that changed my opinion on homosexuality.

I view the world thru the lens of my own experiences.

I asked myself "Could I choose to find another man sexually attractive?" and the answer was no, I couldn't.

Therefore, I don't believe someone chooses to be gay.

Now the real question is, in an alternate universe where homosexuality was the norm, learned from childhood, would people who say they could never find the same sex sexually attractive in this universe be gay in that universe? Nature vs. nurture.

 

[PratchettFan]

"Sexual orientation conversion therapy" is exactly what it sounds like - therapy designed to modify a person's sexual orientation. California has a law banning it in the case of minors. Recently, a federal judge issued a temporary injunction against the ban, opening the way for concerned parents to take their children to "sexual orientation therapists" if they feel the child may be heading toward the other side of the sexual fence.

Judge blocks ban on gay 'conversion' therapy - latimes.com

Some really interesting issues come out of all this, the most obvious being that the very concept of sexual orientation conversion therapy is based on the assumption that sexual orientation is a choice and can be reversed if the "wrong" choice has been made or the individual is headed in the wrong direction. This assumption is controversial, of course. Most scientific studies on the subject have established that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice but rather of genetics. Many disagree with these studies, holding that sexual orientation is a matter of choice.

In any event - even if sexual orientation is a matter of genetics and not choice, does that mean it cannot be reversed? Studies have shown that while obesity is more probably caused by heredity than enviornment, it can still be reversed by dieting and proper eating habits.

Setting those issues aside, what about the propriety of parents forcing their children to go through sexual orientation conversion therapy when, perhaps, the child might not want to do so? Doesn't a parent have the right to raise their child the way they see fit? Perhaps. Perhaps not. It depends. Few would argue that parents who were attempting to train their child to be a serial killer were acting properly while few would argue against parents attempting to teach their child to appreciate organized religion or to be a good athelete.

How do you feel about "sexual oreintation conversion therapy"? (To be honest, I didn't even know it existed until reading the above article.)

Not that I agree with the idea of the therapy (I wouldn't personally suggest it to a loved one), but this sort of ban bothers me on a different level.

I do NOT want the government telling health care providers what sort of treatments and/or procedures they can and cannot do on a patient (at least any more than they already do).

These are self-governing professionals. The state needs to butt out.

This is pretty much my take on it. The question is not whether or not the treatment is valid (I doubt it is) but whether or not it is the place of the government to make that decision for people.

 

[Mad Scientist]

my phrenologist recommended this, but i averred.

I see what you did there.

 

[Si modo]

my phrenologist recommended this, but i averred.

I see what you did there.

Phrenology is a pseudoscience.

 

[Noomi]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

 

[Politico]

Well that's BS. You don't just suddenly have an explosion of 'involuntary' gayness in a few short years.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

So, which were bisexuals born, gay or straight?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Such therapy is potentially problematic, but I still can't see it as inherently "abusive." What bothers me most about hardliners is that they view human life in absolutes. It's either a) all people are born straight and society is making them gay or b) you are born gay or straight and nobody makes those choices.

Bullshit. It's neither.

There is such a thing called genetic predisposition. To deny it is just plain ignorant. It is no less ignorant to refuse to acknowledge that sexual behavior can be conditioned. The psychological community can identify that adult sexual behaviors can be and frequently are affected by childhood experiences. Yet, the subject of homosexuality has somehow become taboo. As a sexual preference or behavior it is off the table for discussion when it comes to that. Why?

I have three children. If one day any one of them told me they were gay, I would not disown them, nor would they become any less in my eyes. However, all things being equal, I would prefer they be straight. I would also prefer they have healthy diets, not be serial rapists, be productive, think critically, and a number of other things that they may or may not do.

Being socially withdrawn is a trait of autism. If I had a child with autism, do I NOT encourage or attempt to condition more social behavior so that he/she can assimilate and function better? Or am I supposed to just let the behavior be because that's "just the way he/she is?"

The example is not meant to say that gays cannot assimilate or function, so don't get antsy. My point is that people are born all kinds of ways, with certain genetic predispositions, and sometimes behaviors are simply conditioned or chosen. In other words, in the multiple choice question of the real world, it's "all of the above." Sometimes people are overweight because of their lifestyle, and sometimes it's because they are genetically predisposed. My point is, why is sexual orientation the only behavior that cannot be discussed among the myriad of behaviors that can be positive/negative, beneficial/harmful, etc.?

There was a time when society completely shunned such behavior and people were far more expected to conform to social norms. If there are genetically predisposed gays now there were then, right? Were they all living miserable lies their whole lives? I don't know any more than anybody else does. I find it hard to believe that at least some of them didn't lead reasonably happy lives, even if there was something "off" that they couldn't quite put their hands on. People live lives they don't necessarily want all the time. People work jobs they hate and are not "fulfilled." Not everybody is able to live their life they way the feel. Likewise, parents try to "force" their children in certain directions all the time, and have done so for thousands of years, and sometimes there are scars. Grow up and welcome to the world.

Do we want to try and prevent abuse by parents? Of course we do. That doesn't make this kind of therapy inherently abusive.

Despite my rant, I am actually very sensitive and tolerant. Anyway, the far lefties can go ahead and give me their ration of shit now.

 

[novasteve]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

If people are born that way, then it's probably genetic. If they discover a gay gene, will you support abortion in cases of mothers wanting to abort fetuses with the gay gene?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

People cannot change their sexuality. You are born straight, or you are born gay. You cannot change, and these 'therapists' or Bible bashing morons, shouldn't be in the business of making homosexuals feel so guilty about themselves that they believe the only way they can seek redemption is to 'change'.

Its bullshit.

If people are born that way, then it's probably genetic. If they discover a gay gene, will you support abortion in cases of mothers wanting to abort fetuses with the gay gene?

Not a bad litmus test. If a far left "abortion on demand" pro-choice advocate is consistent then they would have to say yes. The odds are, however, that most if not all of them will avoid this question.