Sexual Harassment Video: What Does It Say About Us?

[Dragonlady]

I'm hardly irrational or fearful of men. In fact, I spend a lot of time in the company of mostly men since I like playing poker.

As for your comments about this woman, they're rude and pointless. You seem to have bought into the notion that your looks are the only thing that matters about you. You don't hear men denigrating other men based on their looks. That's strictly a female thing. It something society has encouraged women to do so they don't band together and demand equal treatment, equal pay - things with real power.

Women like you are so busy judging other women on the basis of things that don't matter, that they've lost sight of the things that do - respect, dignity, and support for one other.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You seem to have bought into the notion that your looks are the only thing that matters about you. You don't hear men denigrating other men based on their looks. That's strictly a female thing. It something society has encouraged women to do so they don't band together and demand equal treatment, equal pay - things with real power.

That's right. Women are children, not adults. Women have no agency unto themselves, they're mere puppets who are controlled by society. Women can do no wrong and when they do, then it's because society made them do something.

 

[Theowl32]

I'm hardly irrational or fearful of men. In fact, I spend a lot of time in the company of mostly men since I like playing poker.

As for your comments about this woman, they're rude and pointless. You seem to have bought into the notion that your looks are the only thing that matters about you. You don't hear men denigrating other men based on their looks. That's strictly a female thing. It something society has encouraged women to do so they don't band together and demand equal treatment, equal pay - things with real power.

Women like you are so busy judging other women on the basis of things that don't matter, that they've lost sight of the things that do - respect, dignity, and support for one other.

All you have done is judge. Hypocrite. Cat calls are no big deal.

Want rude? Take your high drama bullshit sanctimony and shove it.

Fucking liberals and their never ending hypocritical double standards and utter bullshit.

Waaaaaaaa, men were making cat calls!!!

 

[Dragonlady]

All you have done is judge. Hypocrite. Cat calls are no big deal.

On it's own, a catcall is no big deal. But when women cannot walk down the street without hearing catcalls every few steps - one every 6 minutes on her walk, that denotes a complete lack of respect from men.

If you walked down the street, minding your own business, and were disrespected 10 times an hour, everywhere you went, how would you feel?

Catcalls are disrespectful. They indicate that the men can say anything they want, and you say the women should just suck it up.

I'm asking you to think about these things, and you're insulting me. This is why your country is in gridlock. There is no discourse, there is only rudeness.

 

[Tresha91203]

She walked all day. She hand picked the areas to suit her purpose. That video was the worst she could muster. It was far from 10 times per hour. I am as attractive as she is and don't have this problem. Where do you live that you get disrespected every 6 minutes? I've walked New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Dallas, Houston, Seattle, San Francisco, Las Vegas and Vancouver and never got disrespected every 6 minutes. If there's a problem in New York, I say it is pretty localized.

FYI, "hello" is not harassment. It isn't even rude. I do get some polite form of acknowledgement, maybe even one every six minutes, in New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Dallas, Houston and Seattle.

There is no need to infringe on freedoms to avoid any form of unsolicited human contact. If one is that threatened by others' voices, one should avoid large cities where so many others have a voice.

If I wanted to, I'm sure I could walk around some construction sites, some scary areas of NO and BR, and maybe hang around outside a sports bar to get disrespected more often. Those guys aren't exactly respectful to the other guys there, though, so not sure what point that would make.

I don't need to be protected from words. It annoys me when people make women out to be so delicate that we must be protected from others' speech. If it is not illegal to say to a man, it should not be to a woman. I am the master of my reactions and feelings, just like a man.

 

[Rikurzhen]

All you have done is judge. Hypocrite. Cat calls are no big deal.

On it's own, a catcall is no big deal. But when women cannot walk down the street without hearing catcalls every few steps - one every 6 minutes on her walk, that denotes a complete lack of respect from men.

There are plenty of men who women look though as though they are invisible. That's actually a worse statement, these men could fall off the face of the earth and women wouldn't notice their absence than the fate of having to listen to men signaling their appreciation of you. It's not disrespect at all.

If you walked down the street, minding your own business, and were disrespected 10 times an hour, everywhere you went, how would you feel?

Plenty of men walk down the street and are ignored by women. To put it in terms you seem to favor, men are DISRESPECTED by being invisible to most women.

Behold from OK Cupid data:

Not too surprising. Most women are average. Also not surprising is male desire for beautiful women:

But enough about men. Let's look at the issue from a female disrespect angle:

Hello. What's this? Physical attractiveness is normally distributed. See male data above. Most men and women are average, few are ugly, few are gorgeous. Here's the analysis of this chart:

As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.
​

This probably explains why women are so quick to divorce. They think that they've settled. How on earth can women assess 80% of men as worse-looking than medium?

Just to illustrate that women are operating on a very different scale, here are just a few of the many, many guys we here in the office think are totally decent-looking, but that women have rated, in their occult way, as significantly less attractive than so-called “medium”:​

Catcalls are disrespectful. They indicate that the men can say anything they want, and you say the women should just suck it up.

They're not disrespectful, these men are communicating that they want to interact with you in some fashion. Of course men can say anything they want, what kind of nonsense is this that you're spouting, women can say anything they want to. What is it about free speech that you don't understand? There is no right to "not be talked to."

 

[Tresha91203]

Two of those guys need to comb their hair. None of them is ugly. The one on the far right is a cutie. I'd have to see the two leftmost smile to be sure, but they are potentially cuties. The remaining guy needs a genuine smile and he'd be cute, too. His smile makes him look awkward, but could be a bad shot.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm hardly irrational or fearful of men. In fact, I spend a lot of time in the company of mostly men since I like playing poker.

As for your comments about this woman, they're rude and pointless. You seem to have bought into the notion that your looks are the only thing that matters about you. You don't hear men denigrating other men based on their looks. That's strictly a female thing. It something society has encouraged women to do so they don't band together and demand equal treatment, equal pay - things with real power.

Women like you are so busy judging other women on the basis of things that don't matter, that they've lost sight of the things that do - respect, dignity, and support for one other.

If she had made a video about something important like one of the above issues, then I could have some respect for her. Instead she is whining about a complete non issue. She wasn't harassed but one time that I could see. Obviously you don't know what it's like to be REALLY harassed.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Two of those guys need to comb their hair. None of them is ugly. The one on the far right is a cutie. I'd have to see the two leftmost smile to be sure, but they are potentially cuties. The remaining guy needs a genuine smile and he'd be cute, too. His smile makes him look awkward, but could be a bad shot.

Would you notice these guys walking on the street? Data suggests most women would look right through them.

I'm not intending to shift the topic here, but I wanted to note this concept of disrespect that DragonLady is pushing has many facets. If men paying attention to women is a sign of disrespect, then when women ignore men is that also a sign of disrespect. Those catcalling men are working at trying to get the attention of the woman. Is it disrespectful for them to want to get her attention? Now most men are used to being proactive in this process, so if their (natural) efforts to get women's attention are a sign of disrespect then aren't women's (natural) behavior of ignoring men also a sign of disrespect?

I just can't see the logic backing this formulation that speech is disrespect. Annoyance, yeah that I can buy, but not disrespect. What women seem to be upset about is the wrong men, the men who they ignore so well that they don't even see, crashing into their consciousness and forcing some kind of acknowledgement. The right kind of guy, the ones that women do see, well he's entirely welcome to complement them.

 

[Tresha91203]

I'm a normal woman. If someone smiles at me, I smile back. If any of those guys passed me on the street and made eye contact, I'd smile. I'm married, so not looking to get a guy's attention. If any of them smiled at me, I would notice him. Smiles light up people's faces and I notice them.

If I were single and looking, I would not look through any of those guys. They are young for me, but they are attractive. I'm about personality and compatibility, and past the drama phase that guys in their 20s can bring. Still, they could get their foot in the door with a (you guessed it) smile. If either is intelligent, witty, laid back with at least a few similar interests, I'd date him to find out more.

 

[Dragonlady]

Why do you assume that anyone wants laws passed to prevent people from catcalling or speaking their minds?

What we are addressing here is a lack of respect for women - an assumption that a woman should be flattered by the attention. When did an expectation of respect and good manners become too much for some people to cope with?

Rikurzhen, you seem obsessed with attractiveness and have gone on endlessly in this and other threads about judging people on appearance. Yes, some people are just that shallow. There're generally people who are so insecure that they have to tear others down to feel better about themselves.

You ranted in another thread that women reporters will never be taken seriously because they're only interested in writing about how something affects women. Are you of the opinion that what women think or how something impacts on their lives is of no consequence?

Getting back to the video, if men in her workplace constantly made the kinds of comments to this woman that were made in the video as she went about doing her job, she would have grounds for a sexual harassment lawsuit. So if this behaviour constitutes sexual harassment in one situation, why isn't it sexual harassment in this one?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Why do you assume that anyone wants laws passed to prevent people from catcalling or speaking their minds?

You being appalled by the notion that men think they have a right to speak to women. You clearly imply that men do NOT have such a right. That suggests to me that you're in favor of stripping men of the right to free speech in order to bring about the world you desire, a world were men do not have the right to speak to a woman.

. . men felt they had the right to comment on her appearance, to call out to her.

What we are addressing here is a lack of respect for women - an assumption that a woman should be flattered by the attention. When did an expectation of respect and good manners become too much for some people to cope with?

When liberals destroyed social etiquette. Chivalry is a two way street. Men had obligations towards women and women towards men:

Hats have rules: a gentleman of course removes his when speaking to a lady on the street, removes it when a lady enters an elevator (unless the elevator is inside an office building or a store); replaces it when he steps off into the corridor. He lifts his hat as a gesture of politeness to strangers and lifts it more emphatically when he performs an outdoor informal (versus an indoor ceremonial) bow.

Nineteen thirty-nine's polite conversation is scripted and therefore ritualized to a much greater extent than ours is. "Under all possible circumstances, the reply to an introduction is 'How do you do?'" ("The taboo of taboos is 'Pleased to meet you.'") When the need arises, one says "I beg your pardon"—never, ever, "Pardon me," which is a barbarism. It goes without saying that first names are to be used only under the proper, restricted circumstances (never among strangers), and that "sir," "madam," or "miss" is an appropriate form of address.

The rituals governing a gentleman's behavior toward ladies are the best developed of all. A gentleman in a private home stands as long as any lady is on her feet. A gentleman is always introduced or presented to a lady, never the other way round, even if "he is an old gentleman of great distinction and the lady a mere slip of a girl." . . . .

Manners didn't matter only to the rich, though. Visiting New York from London in 1938, Cecil Beaton notes that "the general rules of behavior are rigidly adhered to, and Mrs. Post's book on etiquette is as strictly interpreted in Gotham as the Koran in Mecca. Competitions are held whereat children from all parts of New York vie with each other to become the politest child in Manhattan, and demonstrate their courtesy before judges." On one occasion, the winner was a 13-year-old girl from the Lower East Side.

Courtesy wasn't only decorative, either. It was a terse and pregnant form of communication. A small gesture might speak volumes. At a Lower East Side relief station, Mayor La Guardia dropped in unannounced. He was enraged by the lackadaisical bureaucrats he found. A supervisor wandered over to see what the fuss was, and mistook the visitor for another out-of-work troublemaker. The mayor knocked the hat off his head: "Take off your hat when you speak to a citizen." After supervising an on-the-spot reorganization, the mayor stomped off; on his way out, he pointed to the man with the knocked-off hat, declaring: “There’s another S. of a B. who has no job.”​

We used to have a culture of order and rules and this applied very much so to relations between the sexes. Liberals destroyed that world. Women are now the equal of men. This is what feminists demanded. OK, you got what you wanted.

Rikurzhen, you seem obsessed with attractiveness and have gone on endlessly in this and other threads about judging people on appearance. Yes, some people are just that shallow. There're generally people who are so insecure that they have to tear others down to feel better about themselves.

In case this is news to you, when people first meet you the first aspect of you that is noticed is your appearance. This aspect is judged, by all of us, and it's judged because it's all the information we have until we develop more. This means that those catcalling men have judged the woman to be attractive and they're expressing their interest in getting to know her better or simply letting her know that they find her attractive. They're not catcalling because they've looked deep into the woman's soul and discerned that she has a terrific personality and warm kindness.

You ranted in another thread that women reporters will never be taken seriously because they're only interested in writing about how something affects women. Are you of the opinion that what women think or how something impacts on their lives is of no consequence?

If women want to be judged as professionals, then act like professionals and leave female solipsism for their personal lives.

Getting back to the video, if men in her workplace constantly made the kinds of comments to this woman that were made in the video as she went about doing her job, she would have grounds for a sexual harassment lawsuit. So if this behaviour constitutes sexual harassment in one situation, why isn't it sexual harassment in this one?

Yes, another instance of women changing a culture that they fought to find acceptance in, the workplace. The reason that this would be considered sexual harassment is because liberals have interjected their totalitarianism into private enterprise and made employers liable for protecting women's feelings. Women have a knack for trying to use government to be their protector while simultaneously claiming to be the equal of men. The reason that catcalling isn't sexual harassment is because the government can't control the speech of free citizens the way an employer can control the speech of his employees.

And just to make the point very clear - the problem here is not the behavior of men, it's the existence of legal codes called sexual harassment laws. If women are the equal of men, then they don't require special laws to protect them. If we are a free society, then we don't need government controlling behavior in the private lives of people. For women who worked in an environment where men made them feel uncomfortable, the women could complain and either the man or the woman would leave. The women who leave will take their talent to a workplace where management frowns on men "harassing" women and this big sorting in the labor marketplace would result in "harassing" workplaces slowly being driven out of business because all of the talented women are now working for "non-harassing" workplaces and making them more efficient and profitable.

What you're suggesting is that sexual harassment law is both legitimate and should be extended to the public venue. Speech is not a crime. Assault is a crime. The solution is not to criminalize speech in public as liberals have criminalized speech in work places. The marketplace was well suited to solving the problem of women needing special protection. There's a reason why women prefer male bosses over female bosses, why both men and women prefer male dominated work environments to female dominated work environments and that's because people can breath easier when they don't have to tip-toe around so many female issues. All male environments have the freest environment - men are free to be who they are without worrying about upsetting some other guy's feelings.

 

[Politico]

I saw only one potnetial harassment, maybe two. The guy with the red hat and the guy walking next to her for 5 minutes.

Everything else was nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Fucking feminists. (liberals)

That.

 

[Tresha91203]

There is an overall lack of respect in today's society. Women are part of society and not immune. It gets worse with each generation. Welcome to becoming you parents.

It was far more common for your boss to smack your ass then than now. Actual sexual harassment has declined drastically. Now, we've just moved the goal posts.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

 

[Iceweasel]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

You are quite the airhead.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

You are quite the airhead.

Airhead meaning "absolutely and irrefutably correct" I assume.

 

[Theowl32]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

on ignore you worthless piece of shit

 

[Asclepias]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

on ignore you worthless piece of shit

I can never figure out what putting someone on ignore does to them. Truth must hurt to incite such a puerile statement.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Much of the blame lies squarely at the feet of Christianity. Which made women into the bad guys. Thus societies predominantly Christian as with our's will have a marked anti-woman bias.

on ignore you worthless piece of shit

I can never figure out what putting someone on ignore does to them. Truth must hurt to incite such a puerile statement.

Better I think to not tell people you're putting them on ignore, let em keep talking at ya and flaming ya. Also, if you're a dick to them, how is your putting them on ignore hurtful to them? Doing them a favor really.