Sex offender claims religious rights denied

Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

God says, "Kill them!" (i.e. Don't worry about their salvation.) He has made it clear over and over again that perverts like that will not spend eternity with Him.

New Testament changed that. Or have you forgotten "forgive the sinner" "turn the other cheek" and all of Jesus message? How about " let he with out sin cast the first stone".

If he is a Christian the bible commands fellowship as a requirement also. He did not lose his 1st Amendment rights. If they bar him from church they are establishing a very bad precedent.

What do you think they ought to do since the man is required as a registered sex offender to stay away from children?
 
Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

Ah, our loving Christian message brought to you by Neubarth. You've got killing on the brain, Neubarth,

For the record, I don't think this guy ought to attend Church services. He can listen by phone and practice at home, sending out letters to witness instead of visiting homes.

It is not killing on the brain. It IS compliance with God's instructions. He gave us very specific instructions about sexual degeneracy. Take them all to the outside of town and stone them in the stoning pit. There is no second guessing. We are to follow God's orders exactly as He mandated them. We do not have the right to pick and chose which ones of God's instructions we are going to obey.
If you truly believe that, could I ask if you follow strict Kosher dietary laws as well? Do you cheer for a football team? Even though God strictly forbids playing with the skin of a dead pig? Or, as I strongly suspect, are you hiding behind your warped perception of God's laws to justify your own ignorance and bigotry?
 
God says, "Kill them!" (i.e. Don't worry about their salvation.) He has made it clear over and over again that perverts like that will not spend eternity with Him.

New Testament changed that. Or have you forgotten "forgive the sinner" "turn the other cheek" and all of Jesus message? How about " let he with out sin cast the first stone".

If he is a Christian the bible commands fellowship as a requirement also. He did not lose his 1st Amendment rights. If they bar him from church they are establishing a very bad precedent.

What do you think they ought to do since the man is required as a registered sex offender to stay away from children?

The law is unreasonable. The law and the Government have no right to bar people from cities and towns, from malls and food stores. Such rulings do JUST that. It is cruel and unusual punishment.

If the man is a threat then lock him up and keep him locked up. Change the law.
 
The Associated Press: NH sex offender claims religious rights denied

The case of 35-year-old Jonathan Perfetto of Manchester marks the first time the New Hampshire Supreme Court is being asked to rule on whether a probation condition that effectively bars church attendance violates a person's constitutional rights to religious freedom.


What say you, USMB members?

The man was never charged of actually touching a child. Only had pictures.
Does he pose a threat?
Should he be denied his right to exercise, freely, his religion?

It's a condition of probation. If the sick freak doesn't like it, let him serve out his sentence.

Sex offenders who are out on probation must participate in treatment, screening, and follow the dictates of their counselors and probation officers. That ALWAYS includes avoiding places where children congregate. They also may not go to public movie houses, skating rinks, schools, parks, swimming pools, little league games.
 
Ah, our loving Christian message brought to you by Neubarth. You've got killing on the brain, Neubarth,

For the record, I don't think this guy ought to attend Church services. He can listen by phone and practice at home, sending out letters to witness instead of visiting homes.

It is not killing on the brain. It IS compliance with God's instructions. He gave us very specific instructions about sexual degeneracy. Take them all to the outside of town and stone them in the stoning pit. There is no second guessing. We are to follow God's orders exactly as He mandated them. We do not have the right to pick and chose which ones of God's instructions we are going to obey.
If you truly believe that, could I ask if you follow strict Kosher dietary laws as well? Do you cheer for a football team? Even though God strictly forbids playing with the skin of a dead pig? Or, as I strongly suspect, are you hiding behind your warped perception of God's laws to justify your own ignorance and bigotry?

You perverse people will use any contrived excuse to defy God. There is absolutely no excuse for not stoning perverts. God said it. I believe it. That is all there is to it. Nowhere does it say that because Jesus questioned the adultery of the woman who supposedly had been caught in that horrible act that a person who was actually guilty should be spared from execution. You people make up lies about the new testament in order to defy God. That is the reason why he is going to come back and Kill everybody. He is totally ticked off because everybody is using outrageous excuses to defy Him. He is an Angry God. He is a God of Wrath. He is very angry. Why do you defy Him????
 
It is not killing on the brain. It IS compliance with God's instructions. He gave us very specific instructions about sexual degeneracy. Take them all to the outside of town and stone them in the stoning pit. There is no second guessing. We are to follow God's orders exactly as He mandated them. We do not have the right to pick and chose which ones of God's instructions we are going to obey.
If you truly believe that, could I ask if you follow strict Kosher dietary laws as well? Do you cheer for a football team? Even though God strictly forbids playing with the skin of a dead pig? Or, as I strongly suspect, are you hiding behind your warped perception of God's laws to justify your own ignorance and bigotry?

You perverse people will use any contrived excuse to defy God. There is absolutely no excuse for not stoning perverts. God said it. I believe it. That is all there is to it. Nowhere does it say that because Jesus questioned the adultery of the woman who supposedly had been caught in that horrible act that a person who was actually guilty should be spared from execution. You people make up lies about the new testament in order to defy God. That is the reason why he is going to come back and Kill everybody. He is totally ticked off because everybody is using outrageous excuses to defy Him. He is an Angry God. He is a God of Wrath. He is very angry. Why do you defy Him????
Shouldn't you be out on a ledge somewhere?
 
Besides the obvious exception, this has been a great discussion.
:clap2:
The guy has to follow his probation rules. They were in place before he "got religion", so he's going to have to stay away from where kids would hang out.




And, FTR, Barb - I'm 5' 10" and 44 yo ;)
 
Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

God says, "Kill them!" (i.e. Don't worry about their salvation.) He has made it clear over and over again that perverts like that will not spend eternity with Him.
After reading this thread, God told me that under no circumstances does she want to spend eternity with you.
I can't say I blame her.
 
His religious rights have not been violated. If he wants to be a Jehovah's Witness ... he can have them come to his house - they'd be more than willing to do so. Worshiping God does not require one's physical appearance in church. For that matter, what kind of truly religious Christian person participates in activity that God would condemn in the first place. He can't have it both ways and my vote would be to err on the side of a child's safety.

Actually, being a Jehovah's Witness in good standing requires that you attend meetings and participate in at least 2 hours of ministry activity a moth. Refusing to allow someone to attend meetings is tantamount to denying them the right to be JWs. If necessary, the Watchtower will take this all the way to SCOTUS. You would be surprised how many fundamental civil rights questions we take for granted were decided by them challenging laws that were aimed at denying them something.
 
It's an interesting case. They're basically saying that going to a Church is a religious freedom as opposed to this guy just practicing prayer, contemplation and meditation at home. It's as if the institution of the Church has the rights.

If anyone needs religious practice this guy does. If I were a member of his Church I would be very concerned about his attendance. Some Churches feel that they need to minister to the worst sinners in their congregation and will not kick out a member even when he's hurt another member.

Isn't that exactly how a church is supposed to work? People who are healthy do not need physicians, but sick people do. I think that as long as the congregation takes reasonable precautions there won't be any problems. If all the elders and servants know about the man, and warn any parents of children of the dangers, it should work. Ostracizing someone completely gives them no chance to reintegrate as healthy and functioning members of society. Counseling and support might actually help, and will at least give him a safety valve to discuss his urges.
 
I think a prosecutor could make the case that this individual does not have Christian values therefore his religion which embraces "child pornography" is not compatible with the churches any more than if a muslim wanted to set up camp in a christian church.

Are Jehovah Witnesses considered Christian? I'm not sure they are.

Civil Liberties Union lawyer Barbara Keshen said the court's ruling could determine the religious rights of people who are under court supervision, on either parole or probation. AP: Sex offender wants permission to attend church - Sunday, Jun. 20, 2010

Actually, the son of a bitch should just be put to death. God says that all sexual perverts should be stoned to death as soon as possible outside of town. By failing to comply with God's instructions we have brought condemnation upon ourselves.

Take that perverted ass to the outside of town and have an aggressive stoning and get it over with. Do that to all perverts and clean up the country.

Wonderful idea, and then we can kill all the weirdos who think stoning is legal.
 
Actually, being a Jehovah's Witness in good standing requires that you attend meetings and participate in at least 2 hours of ministry activity a moth. Refusing to allow someone to attend meetings is tantamount to denying them the right to be JWs. If necessary, the Watchtower will take this all the way to SCOTUS. You would be surprised how many fundamental civil rights questions we take for granted were decided by them challenging laws that were aimed at denying them something.

I don't believe they are saying that he may not participate in "ministry activates" they are saying he may not go to church where there are children. If the minister is so worried about him and meetings then then why doesn't the minister have him there when no one else is for private meetings?
 
Okay, but assuming he was, there are other restrictions people violate as easy as breathing. That was my main point.
Assuming he wasn't, religion isn't the only path to change.
Or
Maybe you mean he's trying to rehabilitate his image by the appearance of religious piety, or to join a socially acceptable group, that is also possible.

The guy has decided to rehabilitate himself by joining a socially acceptable group like the Jehovah's Witnesses?

:confused:
 
Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

Jesus taught that the only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I think that makes everyone but Nuebarth safe around here.
 
Actually, being a Jehovah's Witness in good standing requires that you attend meetings and participate in at least 2 hours of ministry activity a moth. Refusing to allow someone to attend meetings is tantamount to denying them the right to be JWs. If necessary, the Watchtower will take this all the way to SCOTUS. You would be surprised how many fundamental civil rights questions we take for granted were decided by them challenging laws that were aimed at denying them something.

I don't believe they are saying that he may not participate in "ministry activates" they are saying he may not go to church where there are children. If the minister is so worried about him and meetings then then why doesn't the minister have him there when no one else is for private meetings?

That is not how Jehovah's Witnesses worship. They believe that meetings are necessary to one's growth as a Christian, because it is in meetings that you can interact with others and grow as a Christian. If you do it all on your own you will fall into false beliefs and teachings.

By the way, ministerial activities would include going out and knocking on doors, or calling people at home, something else I am sure would run afoul of his probation restrictions.

The question here is not is he guilty, but is the burden placed on him by the punishment imposed by the state an undue burden on his free exercise of religion. Most states allow convicted felons, even child molesters, to attend church as long as they inform the church of their conviction. I suspect that this case will eventually come down on the side of his right to attend meetings, mostly because the congregation is willing to accept him, and has even offered to escort him. this will make it very difficult for the state to prove he is a danger to any children at the meetings.
 
Can a sex offender be 'saved'? What sins are beyond redemption? How can a religion respond skillfully to the sinners/criminals among us?

Jesus taught that the only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I think that makes everyone but Nuebarth safe around here.

Alright this perp is a jw, so jesus's "heaven" doesn't apply right?

Probably not to him. Heaven is reserved for the 144,000 faithful servants. That decision would be up to God, and I do not have his number to personally ask him who is on the list.
 
Actually, being a Jehovah's Witness in good standing requires that you attend meetings and participate in at least 2 hours of ministry activity a moth. Refusing to allow someone to attend meetings is tantamount to denying them the right to be JWs. If necessary, the Watchtower will take this all the way to SCOTUS. You would be surprised how many fundamental civil rights questions we take for granted were decided by them challenging laws that were aimed at denying them something.

I don't believe they are saying that he may not participate in "ministry activates" they are saying he may not go to church where there are children. If the minister is so worried about him and meetings then then why doesn't the minister have him there when no one else is for private meetings?

You are not listening. The religion requires participation AT CHURCH and in the ministry of others outside the church.
 
Jesus taught that the only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I think that makes everyone but Nuebarth safe around here.

Alright this perp is a jw, so jesus's "heaven" doesn't apply right?

Probably not to him. Heaven is reserved for the 144,000 faithful servants. That decision would be up to God, and I do not have his number to personally ask him who is on the list.

Everyone else will reside on a renewed Earth with Jesus as their King. No death, no sickness, no crime.
 

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