Settlements only "illegal" for Jews

[ForeverYoung436]

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

What privilege do I need to check?

My feeling is Jews should be allowed to live anywhere they wish. How is that a lie?

You said in your post #18:

As far as where Jews can live? They can live anywhere they want, just like any other ethnic group.

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD. It relates to my statements on refugees.

I do not and have never "magically" thought you, or blacks or Muslims or women do not experience discrimination. So check your own privilege. And don't assume Dogmaphobe is Jewish. He isn't. He's a white male that has issues with blacks and Muslims, he has his own "privilege" problems to deal with.

I am not the subject of this thread, but I might mention that ANY parent whose child was at the receiving end of racial abuse would want to protect them and hope the school system would do something about it. when posters say they are happy that my child was a victim of racial attacks, ANY poster would object. you sided with the poster who said he was glad my child was attacked, and so we disagree on the subject of my child and whether he deserves to be physically attacked for his skin color.

since you brought it up and all.


Now, as to the subject of this thread, which certainly isn't me, you support the dispersal of Arabs into Europe even as many of their countries do not even allow Jews to enter. for all your posturing about prejudice, you certainly do ignore the extremely high level of prejudice arising from your people.

Wow, your allegations about Coyote are certainly shocking.

Wow. Of course they are. Because they are false. But don't let that stop you from your circle jerk.

I don't know what your last sentence means. What's a "circle jerk"?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You said in your post #18:

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD. It relates to my statements on refugees.

I do not and have never "magically" thought you, or blacks or Muslims or women do not experience discrimination. So check your own privilege. And don't assume Dogmaphobe is Jewish. He isn't. He's a white male that has issues with blacks and Muslims, he has his own "privilege" problems to deal with.

I am not the subject of this thread, but I might mention that ANY parent whose child was at the receiving end of racial abuse would want to protect them and hope the school system would do something about it. when posters say they are happy that my child was a victim of racial attacks, ANY poster would object. you sided with the poster who said he was glad my child was attacked, and so we disagree on the subject of my child and whether he deserves to be physically attacked for his skin color.

since you brought it up and all.


Now, as to the subject of this thread, which certainly isn't me, you support the dispersal of Arabs into Europe even as many of their countries do not even allow Jews to enter. for all your posturing about prejudice, you certainly do ignore the extremely high level of prejudice arising from your people.

Wow, your allegations about Coyote are certainly shocking.

Wow. Of course they are. Because they are false. But don't let that stop you from your circle jerk.

I don't know what your last sentence means. What's a "circle jerk"?

Something he enjoys doing with his Islamist pals.

 

[Shusha]

Right, so if they later wanted to be seen as Palestinian in a Palestinian state in the post colonial reality of the demise of the Ottomans then they are allowed that view and don't need or require your permission.

Agreed. Now, apply that to Israel.

I already have but you wouldn't know because you assume to know my thoughts better than I know them myself lol

I have no idea what your thoughts are. Don't claim to. I only respond to what you write.

 

[Spartacactcus]

That is why Arab nations continue to reject "normalization" with Israel.

BTW oustanding qualification required

Did the Arab Peace Initiative 2001 mention the normalization of relations with Israel between the Arab states ?

 

[Shusha]

The creation of Israel happened in exactly the same way as other Mandates at the time. There was no difference. Other than the differences people, like you, are trying to put on it by coloring it as something special. Because...well Jews.

If you think you have a legal basis for it as an anomaly, please provide some evidence.

Otherwise, it seems apparent to me that your inclusion of the term "antizionists" speaks for itself. You just want there to be different rules for Jews.

Playing the Jew card and treating your assumptions as fact shows me reasonable discussion might be a bridge too far for you.

If you want to know my views then ask If you want to play the antisemite card talk to those in your echo chamber for a good old dose of confirmation bias

What do you want to do ? It's late here and I'm off to bed. If you want to discuss things say so and I will pick it up again tomorrow but on the terms stated.

Nighty, night then, louie.

I'd be happy to have a discussion of facts and law and not a repetition of the same tired old tropes I've heard before a thousand times.

The claim on the table on this thread is that law is applied to Israel in a way which is not applied to any other country. If you can find an application of GCIV 49 to ANY OTHER COUNTRY then do so. Otherwise, the claim of special treatment for Israel (Jews), which is recognized as antisemitism plain and simple, stands.

 

[Spartacactcus]

I have no idea what your thoughts are. Don't claim to. I only respond to what you write.

Correct you don't know but don't mind inferring my views are based on a hatred of Jews. It's an old and tired tactic that is used imo to ward off debate and actually degrades the value of the term itself which is doubly bad in my book

 

[Coyote]

You said in your post #18:

That statement is not true. It is a lie. Therefore, I agree with Dogmaphobe.

The privilege you need to check is the one which assumes that everyone experiences the world the way you do. And that your "feelings" of fairness somehow magically keep people like me and Dogmaphobe from experiencing discrimination based on our ethnicity or religious faith or places where we work.

IT IS MY OPINION. MY OPINION is that Jews SHOULD be able to live where they want! It is NOT a statement that they CAN. BUT THAT THEY SHOULD. It relates to my statements on refugees.

I do not and have never "magically" thought you, or blacks or Muslims or women do not experience discrimination. So check your own privilege. And don't assume Dogmaphobe is Jewish. He isn't. He's a white male that has issues with blacks and Muslims, he has his own "privilege" problems to deal with.

I am not the subject of this thread, but I might mention that ANY parent whose child was at the receiving end of racial abuse would want to protect them and hope the school system would do something about it. when posters say they are happy that my child was a victim of racial attacks, ANY poster would object. you sided with the poster who said he was glad my child was attacked, and so we disagree on the subject of my child and whether he deserves to be physically attacked for his skin color.

since you brought it up and all.


Now, as to the subject of this thread, which certainly isn't me, you support the dispersal of Arabs into Europe even as many of their countries do not even allow Jews to enter. for all your posturing about prejudice, you certainly do ignore the extremely high level of prejudice arising from your people.

Wow, your allegations about Coyote are certainly shocking.

Wow. Of course they are. Because they are false. But don't let that stop you from your circle jerk.

I don't know what your last sentence means. What's a "circle jerk"?

Urban Dictionary: Circlejerk

 

[Spartacactcus]

Nighty, night then, louie.

I'd be happy to have a discussion of facts and law and not a repetition of the same tired old tropes I've heard before a thousand times.

The claim on the table on this thread is that law is applied to Israel in a way which is not applied to any other country. If you can find an application of GCIV 49 to ANY OTHER COUNTRY then do so. Otherwise, the claim of special treatment for Israel (Jews), which is recognized as antisemitism plain and simple, stands.

Will be back tomorrow all being well and will answer. You can comment on the normalization of relations offered by the Arabs under the Arab Peace Initiative in 2001 and how your claim that it hasn't happened is somehow true

 

[Shusha]

I have no idea what your thoughts are. Don't claim to. I only respond to what you write.

Correct you don't know but don't mind inferring my views are based on a hatred of Jews. It's an old and tired tactic that is used imo to ward off debate and actually degrades the value of the term itself which is doubly bad in my book

Oh, on the contrary, I welcome debate. I'm a pretty active member of this forum.

Still, I have yet to find someone who introduces certain terms like "antizionist" who doesn't eventually reveal themselves. Shrug. Prove me wrong.

 

[Coyote]

We have a moral responsibility to help when we can - something all the major religions recognize by the way. And when we are instrumental in the cause of the problems (an easy example is Iraq) - it's not just a responsibility but a moral imperative as a nation in my opinion. Take or leave it.

I disagree. Morality is subjective anyway. Iraq was a shit hole where women and kids were raped daily. Par for the course for mostly Islamic countries but I agree we had no business going in there. You cannot force Democracy. Bush was the single worst president of my lifetime.

Iraq was a shit hole under an authoritarian dictator I never heard of women and children raped daily. At any rate - we made a mess, and the we abandoned the people who put their lives at risk and helped us. That's unforgivable.

And yes - morality is subjective, I would agree on that.

Research it. Daily. Hell his sons raped 100s of women. So you want to fight endless wars? Eventually we have to leave.
This deserves its own thread

Muslim countries Crime Stats: NationMaster.com

rape rate nearly 4x higher than non Muslim nations

Am I missing something? I don't see what you are claiming. What is shows is (for 2009) 3.65 3 times less than average.
3 times less than average

That’s because it’s not reported as rape.
The sadistic lifestyle of eldest Hussein son

Ah. Your referring to sick authoritarian leaders. I am not surprised. When have power over others women are property.

 

[Shusha]

Nighty, night then, louie.

I'd be happy to have a discussion of facts and law and not a repetition of the same tired old tropes I've heard before a thousand times.

The claim on the table on this thread is that law is applied to Israel in a way which is not applied to any other country. If you can find an application of GCIV 49 to ANY OTHER COUNTRY then do so. Otherwise, the claim of special treatment for Israel (Jews), which is recognized as antisemitism plain and simple, stands.

Will be back tomorrow all being well and will answer. You can comment on the normalization of relations offered by the Arabs under the Arab Peace Initiative in 2001 and how your claim that it hasn't happened is somehow true

Yeah. Hey, here's an idea. Why don't they indicate their acceptance of Israel, by, you know, normalizing relations with Israel? Why is normalization with Israel conditional?

 

[Coyote]

The " Left " didn't make the setters criminal , the laws that Israel agreed to be bound by did and do

Nope. What made it "illegal" (cough, cough) for Jews to live in territory which is under their sovereignty by treaty (law), was a brand new, special interpretation of international law which -- to this day -- is applied only to Israel (read: to Jews).

Actually he is right. The laws do make it illegal and recognize settlements on occupied territory as illegal. But other than Russia and Israel, other countries get away with it. Actually so does Russia but there have sanctions applied. So I agree there is a double standard.

 

[Coyote]

The " Left " didn't make the setters criminal , the laws that Israel agreed to be bound by did and do

Nope. What made it "illegal" (cough, cough) for Jews to live in territory which is under their sovereignty by treaty (law), was a brand new, special interpretation of international law which -- to this day -- is applied only to Israel (read: to Jews).

It is inadmisible to acquire territory through warfare under international law and it is unlawful for the occupier to transfer parts of its population into the occupied territory. Yes or no ?

Oh boy, here we go again.

to first question: You point is a shallow and largely inaccurate reading of international law. Also irrelevant, since Israel did not acquire any territory from anyone except through legally through treaties.

to second question: GCIV Article 49 has NEVER been interpreted in such a way. Ever. To any country. It is a "special" interpretation of the law intended only to be used against Israel.

There is an argument regarding what the Mandate or other pre state agreements /proclamations confer and I would love to see it argued out today at the ICJ. We have to be honest about just how unique the creation of Israel ( and Palestine ) has been. It's not that it's because it's concerning Jewish people , some of whom are antizionists themselves , it's just something of a anomaly

The creation of Israel happened in exactly the same way as other Mandates at the time. There was no difference. Other than the differences people, like you, are trying to put on it by coloring it as something special. Because...well Jews.

If you think you have a legal basis for it as an anomaly, please provide some evidence.

Otherwise, it seems apparent to me that your inclusion of the term "antizionists" speaks for itself. You just want there to be different rules for Jews.

Agree, there were a number of countries created or cobbled together from the mandate. To single out Israel is informative...

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I disagree. Morality is subjective anyway. Iraq was a shit hole where women and kids were raped daily. Par for the course for mostly Islamic countries but I agree we had no business going in there. You cannot force Democracy. Bush was the single worst president of my lifetime.

Iraq was a shit hole under an authoritarian dictator I never heard of women and children raped daily. At any rate - we made a mess, and the we abandoned the people who put their lives at risk and helped us. That's unforgivable.

And yes - morality is subjective, I would agree on that.

Research it. Daily. Hell his sons raped 100s of women. So you want to fight endless wars? Eventually we have to leave.
This deserves its own thread

Muslim countries Crime Stats: NationMaster.com

rape rate nearly 4x higher than non Muslim nations

Am I missing something? I don't see what you are claiming. What is shows is (for 2009) 3.65 3 times less than average.
3 times less than average

That’s because it’s not reported as rape.
The sadistic lifestyle of eldest Hussein son

Ah. Your referring to sick authoritarian leaders. I am not surprised. When have power over others women are property.

What?

 

[Shusha]

The " Left " didn't make the setters criminal , the laws that Israel agreed to be bound by did and do

Nope. What made it "illegal" (cough, cough) for Jews to live in territory which is under their sovereignty by treaty (law), was a brand new, special interpretation of international law which -- to this day -- is applied only to Israel (read: to Jews).

Actually he is right. The laws do make it illegal and recognize settlements on occupied territory as illegal. But other than Russia and Israel, other countries get away with it. Actually so does Russia but there have sanctions applied. So I agree there is a double standard.

No, he's not right. This application of GCIV 49 has NEVER existed and NEVER been interpreted in this way. It is STILL not interpreted in this way in any other occupations. (Real occupations, that is. Israel doesn't occupy anyone). It is a stretch interpretation instigated against Israel and only Israel.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Urban Dictionary: Circlejerk

circle jerk
1.) When a group of males sit in a circle, jerking each other off.


Interesting accusation, there.

It seems to have as much merit as other accusations you have made in this tread.


I'm just trying to figure out how it ties in to the practice of Judenrein, though?

 

[Coyote]

Urban Dictionary: Circlejerk

circle jerk
1.) When a group of males sit in a circle, jerking each other off.


Interesting accusation, there.

It seems to have as much merit as other accusations you have made in this tread.


I'm just trying to figure out how it ties in to the practice of Judenrein, though?

Accusation? Interesting that you take it thus, and that you home in on that one meaning (but not surprising).

I have know idea how it ties into "Judenrein". That's your thing and that seems to be your word of the day.

 

[Spartacactcus]

Oh, on the contrary, I welcome debate. I'm a pretty active member of this forum.

Still, I have yet to find someone who introduces certain terms like "antizionist" who doesn't eventually reveal themselves. Shrug. Prove me wrong.

" Reveal themselves" as what ? Antisemitic ? It's tired an old and I have yet to meet anyone who persistently uses " it's because they are Jews " lines that does want to debate openly and honestly. So you can prove me wrong in the process of me proving you wrong , deal ?

There are anti zionist Jews , it's just a fact, and they are often described by the allegedly pro Israel people as being " self hating " Jews. You know this of course already but I am addressing anyone who decides to read this who might not know it.

Thus any criticisms of Israeli actions or policies has to be twisted into a commentary having been born out of hatred of Jews. It's obviously not true but it does have the ability to shift the debate from people explaining their views and supplying supporting evidence to bolster them to fending off false accusations of bigotry.

If you want to know what I think ask me just like I will ask you without the resort to assumptions at all , it's easy enough to do

 

[Spartacactcus]

Yeah. Hey, here's an idea. Why don't they indicate their acceptance of Israel, by, you know, normalizing relations with Israel? Why is normalization with Israel conditional?

So do you accept that your previous claim about the Arabs not offering the normalization of relations was a false claim ?

It's conditional on both sides in case you hadn't noticed. It's an offer of recognition and normalization in return for a just resolution of the I/P solution. If Israel were to enter into negotiations based on it they too would set their conditions within the framework.

Are you saying the Arabs should be the only ones to not have conditions attached before any acceptance of a deal with Israel can be discussed ?

 

[Spartacactcus]

Strange. Because they have never actually accepted any offers. Even those based on "67 borders" (which are neither borders nor from 1967). Why is that, do you think?

Ah, there it is

Funny that you should mention that. Um. Yes. As a matter of fact, the partitioning of former Empires and states into smaller nations based on ethnic divisions is the NORM in the world.
Oh, I agree. Please, bring it. What does the "law" entitle Arab Palestinians to?

They never accepted any offers because none of the offers were just offers and some often never even referred to key elements of the conflict.

I agree with Finkelstein analysis that there was never a peace process but an annexation process that used the peace process as a charade

" Ah there it is " ? Yep it was enforced on the Arabs initially with the Balfour declaration and then with the UN partition and finally by Jewish military success

You need only to look at how the Sykes-Picot carving up of the former Ottoman empire regions was the opposite of what you claim ,with the borders being designed so as to factionalize the demographic make up so as to make the divide and rule of those territories all the more easily. Kurdistan ring any bells ? The hacking off of Kuwait ?

The application of the 4th GC would allow for the Palestinians to create their state out of all the WB including East Jerusalem and Gaza enjoying actual self determination and not the state lite ( fried chicken ) the state of Israel seeks to foist upon them