Sesquicentennial Comparisons: Black Slavery in America and Ottoman Turkey

[Publius1787]

#11, clevergril, who is not so clever.

Jake you always spend so much time tilting at windmills...the hair splitting you do is phenomenal, albeit more then just a little tedious.

I may not be so clever...but Jake, I am often more accurate and intellectually honest than you are on a given matter....and I can live with that.

You can always know the truth of your argument by the speed of the rats jumping ship in a thread. My daughter is laughing at your velociraptors.

 

[JakeStarkey]

clevergirl and publius, on this issue, are not even on this planet, so no worry, girl, go for it.

 

[Publius1787]

clevergirl and publius, on this issue, are not even on this planet, so no worry, girl, go for it.

And though you knowingly and willingly replied to every post of what you considered to be "not even on this planet," it is only now you say so and abandon your argument altogether? I suppose thats what you get when you try to debate Jefferson & Classical liberalism with me huh? Lemmie guess, you thought the classical liberalism embraced by our founders was grounded in abortion, gun control, socialism, welfare, and free condoms? No, it was grounded in personal ownership, which was opposed to democratic mob rule and the slavery of the individual to the will of the masses.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have abandoned dealing with nuts, not with the fact that Jefferson was a classic liberal not a libertarian. What a silly comment by Publius. Classical liberalism is grounded in the concepts (1) that people have rights and (2) that governments are limited in action except by consent of the governed, and (3) a social contract by the consent of the governed binds the rights of individuals into a protection of individuals in society. (3) is what so-called 'libertarians' have trouble with.

 

[Publius1787]

I have abandoned dealing with nuts, not with the fact that Jefferson was a classic liberal not a libertarian. What a silly comment by Publius. Classical liberalism is grounded in the concepts (1) that people have rights and (2) that governments are limited in action except by consent of the governed, and (3) a social contract by the consent of the governed binds the rights of individuals into a protection of individuals in society. (3) is what so-called 'libertarians' have trouble with.

Got 3 minutes? Enjoy!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-buzVjYQvY&feature=player_embedded]Three Minute Philosophy - John Locke - YouTube[/ame]




Ok that was a joke. And I'm not a libertarian. The classical liberalism adopted by our founders is grounded in the principle of self ownership. I provided plenty to prove you otherwise to the point of directly quoting Jefferson. Deal with it. Modern liberalism is the antithesis of the principle of self ownership, and thus, makes slavery a viable option.

 

[Publius1787]

I have abandoned dealing with nuts, not with the fact that Jefferson was a classic liberal not a libertarian. What a silly comment by Publius. Classical liberalism is grounded in the concepts (1) that people have rights and (2) that governments are limited in action except by consent of the governed, and (3) a social contract by the consent of the governed binds the rights of individuals into a protection of individuals in society. (3) is what so-called 'libertarians' have trouble with.

Ok Ok, Point by Pont

1) That people own their selves. If you don't own yourself then you have no right to your labor, your speech, your thoughts, etc. etc. etc.... Indeed, if you don't own yourself you have no rights. Ergo, classical liberalism is grounded in self ownership with all laws coming from that concept in nature (Laws of nature) i.e. "Laws of nature and natures God." This was ripped from John Locke's Second Treatise

2) Wrong, government only responsibility is to protect the right of self ownership. Ergo, "when government becomes destructive of these ends ..." What ends? When the government becomes destructive of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." (Also ripped from Locke) i.e. Natural Law which dictates that you are entitled to life, liberty, and property so as long as you don't infringe on the lives, liberties, and property of others.

3) You ever realize that our constitution grants the government zero power to contradict the right of self ownership or natural law?

Is it starting to click yet? Why do I have the feeling that you never read philosophy? Well, most liberals haven't else they would see the true meaning of our Constitution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

#24 above, Publius, eviscerates your position. The bill passed. Good night. We can talk tomorrow.

Publius will only opine below. He makes assertions but does uphold them with concrete, objective evidence.

Typical libertarian failing when trying to work, unsuccessfully, with classical libertarians, such as Locke or Jefferson.

 

[Publius1787]

#24 above, Publius, eviscerates your position. The bill passed. Good night. We can talk tomorrow.

#24 is a contradiction not an argument. An argument is not just an opposing statement but a series of factual statements that lead to a definite proposition. What makes your above statement non-argumentative is the fact that it is without factual reference, whereas I pointed to Jeffersons own words, Whereas I pointed to Lockes Second Treatise and its similarities to the Declaration of Independence, Whereas academia is absolute on the influences of Jefferson and our founders.