Serious Question. What makes a "fair tax" fair?

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm genuinely curious - no one ever explained why a "fair tax" consumption tax is "fairer" than an income tax.

Thoughts?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A consumption tax is not fair. Fair tax would be flat rate that everyone pays with a set threshold under which one pays no taxes.

Get your terms right.

 

[MarcATL]

Guys, I'd really like you guys to start adding qualifiers to the statements you make.

"A consumption tax is not fair." Why? Says who? How did you derive at that conclusion?

Are you saying that a person or entity should be able to consume as much as they want and not have to pay the price for their consumption?

I say no. Everything comes at a price. The price we pay for each individual owning a car in America is lower air quality aka more air pollution. More air pollution means more sickness, less health, which boils down to people spending more in health care costs and also experiencing a lower quality of life and earlier probability of death.

Its a price. It should be paid for. Not only is it the right thing to do, its the fair thing to do.

Please lay out your argument for why a "Fair Tax" would be fair other than it makes those who want to consume the most pay the least as a percentage of their consumption. Which is actually...very unfair.

 

[Oddball]

The price we pay for each individual owning a car in America is lower air quality aka more air pollution.

The price we paid for riding horses was manure clogged streets and the attendant rampant diseases that caused.

I'd like to introduce you to a little economic concept called the trade-off.

 

[uscitizen]

Umm Marc we are a consumer society. Consumers should be rewarded instead of punished?
Well that is the current situation anyway, not the ideal one becuase much of our economy is based on excessive consumerism and waste.
But until we change our economy is based on consumerism.

Why is the "fair tax" proposal called the fair tax? A sales point, nothing more than that.
Every time I have seen something coming out of politics and government give a good sounding name like "blue Skies" or something it is time to get out the vaseline and bend over.

 

[uscitizen]

My concept of a fair tax is a pure flat percentage tax on all income. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage on all income no decustions or loopholes.
How much fairer than that can you get?

 

[Oddball]

My concept of a fair tax is a pure flat percentage tax on all income. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage on all income no decustions or loopholes.
How much fairer than that can you get?

By reducing spending to the point that no direct tax is necessary.

What a concept!

 

[uscitizen]

My concept of a fair tax is a pure flat percentage tax on all income. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage on all income no decustions or loopholes.
How much fairer than that can you get?

By reducing spending to the point that no direct tax is necessary.

What a concept!

but only a pipe dream concept for the foreseeable future.

 

[Oddball]

Right...Controlling spending is a pipe dream, but debating the merits of a silly new direct tax that doesn't have a snowball's chance of ever coming about is worthwhile.

 

[uscitizen]

Right...Controlling spending is a pipe dream, but debating the merits of a silly new direct tax that doesn't have a snowball's chance of ever coming about is worthwhile.

Umm this was about tax not spending.

Yep cut spending to the point you speak of and watch the USA fall into the dark ages.
My flat tax idea would not cause that problem.

Not that my flat tax idea has a chance of being implemented. It would remove too much power from congress/lobbyists.
but it would work if implemented.

 

[johnrocks]

Right...Controlling spending is a pipe dream, but debating the merits of a silly new direct tax that doesn't have a snowball's chance of ever coming about is worthwhile.

, We could simply take spending down to the levels it was in 1999; just a little over a decade ago; and completely do away with the individual income tax and not replace it with jack shit.

 

[GHook93]

Who gives a shit about fair, I care about smart taxation. The Fair Tax eliminates the income, corporate, capital gains and payroll tax. It creates ginormous incentive for corporations to stay in America, come back to America and even start in America. It would allow us to compete with China, Mexico and the 3rd world's slave wages, without having to reduce to their level!

A better name for it would be the smart tax!

 

[MarcATL]

If fair tax is the same system as tithing then I'm all for it.

As you may or may not know, tithe is 10% of all income. So the more you earn, the more you get, the more you pay.

If this is what Fair Tax people are for...then count me in.

I'm not sure if they are for that as stated above. Are they?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

A consumption tax is not fair. Fair tax would be flat rate that everyone pays with a set threshold under which one pays no taxes.

Get your terms right.

I did. You got your terms wrong.

FairTax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[uscitizen]

23% tax on top of purchase price?
And some supporting this concept raised hell about the luxury tax on yachts???
And those under the poverty level could file and get it back?

Isn't a pure flat tax of around 10% on all earned/investment personal incomes with no exemptions a lot simpler and fairer? couldn't we reduce the IRS to bare bones?
Do away with tax system parasitic industries like HR Block which produce no output except satisfy govt beaucracy?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Guys, I'd really like you guys to start adding qualifiers to the statements you make.

"A consumption tax is not fair." Why? Says who? How did you derive at that conclusion?

Are you saying that a person or entity should be able to consume as much as they want and not have to pay the price for their consumption?

I say no. Everything comes at a price. The price we pay for each individual owning a car in America is lower air quality aka more air pollution. More air pollution means more sickness, less health, which boils down to people spending more in health care costs and also experiencing a lower quality of life and earlier probability of death.

Its a price. It should be paid for. Not only is it the right thing to do, its the fair thing to do.

Please lay out your argument for why a "Fair Tax" would be fair other than it makes those who want to consume the most pay the least as a percentage of their consumption. Which is actually...very unfair.

Most people would argue that a consumption tax is unfair because poor people would pay a larger portion of their income than rich people. This is a knee jerk reaction based on the progressive-regressive designation of taxes that we have been taught since grade school.

About the cars. With everyone in the US owning a car we get the benefit of living in the suburbs instead of being crowded into cities, not being dependent on public transportation and unions to get to work, more freedom to work in a different neighborhood than you live, and a better selection of schools.

 

[Nosmo King]

Umm Marc we are a consumer society. Consumers should be rewarded instead of punished?
Well that is the current situation anyway, not the ideal one becuase much of our economy is based on excessive consumerism and waste.
But until we change our economy is based on consumerism.

Why is the "fair tax" proposal called the fair tax? A sales point, nothing more than that.
Every time I have seen something coming out of politics and government give a good sounding name like "blue Skies" or something it is time to get out the vaseline and bend over.

And to think that only a generation ago, we were a manufacturing society. We were better off when we built things rather than imported them.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's called a Fair Tax because it's a fair solution to the problem. I'd prefer a good, even a great solution.
While the idea of taxing consumption instead of income sounds good (you get less of whatever you tax), the actual implementation would be tough, would encourage cheating,a nd would create a huge new bureaucracy.
I'd rather see a flat tax on all income with no deductions and no exemptions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Umm Marc we are a consumer society. Consumers should be rewarded instead of punished?
Well that is the current situation anyway, not the ideal one becuase much of our economy is based on excessive consumerism and waste.
But until we change our economy is based on consumerism.

Why is the "fair tax" proposal called the fair tax? A sales point, nothing more than that.
Every time I have seen something coming out of politics and government give a good sounding name like "blue Skies" or something it is time to get out the vaseline and bend over.

And to think that only a generation ago, we were a manufacturing society. We were better off when we built things rather than imported them.

I love this argument. The US is still a member of the G8, and we have a manufacturing base that is larger than most countries. Your problem is that you look at the big manufacturers, see that they employ fewer people, and think that means they produce less. The fact is that our export of manufactured goods reached a 20 year high last year, but the economy still sucks. Maybe manufacturing is not as important to our economy as the talking heads you listen to want you to believe.

 

[Yurt]

The price we pay for each individual owning a car in America is lower air quality aka more air pollution.

The price we paid for riding horses was manure clogged streets and the attendant rampant diseases that caused.

I'd like to introduce you to a little economic concept called the trade-off.