Serious political questions

[potter 58]

oreo - and where would you find one of those these days?

 

[Oddball]

1) On what do all conservatives agree?

Progressives (or liberals, if you will) suck...And they're right.

2) What issues differentiate a Republican from an independent or a Libertarian?

Republicans talk like libertarians as a ruse in order to get elected, when they turn around and govern like the progressives they claim to oppose...Libertarians actually mean it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A 12 year old on a little league team shot and killed himself with a handgun his father kept for the families protection. He did so because he got a "D" and his father said he would need to quit baseball if he got any "D's". He died holding his baseball uniform in the family livingroom.
Mark Twain wrote: There are liars, damn liars and statistics..

Was the 12 year old a conservative or a liberal?
Oh wait, that doesn't fucking matter, does it?
So much for your "serious political question". Citing an isolated tragic event is not a valid argument either way.

It may or not be isolated, for me it was very personal. I've thought of several ways to respond to your post mountainman and none seem sufficient. I think you're an asshole, and I guess that says it all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

1) Nothing.
2) Republicans are either registered members of the Republican Party or vote consistently Republican, more or less.

There is no lockstep agreement. Instead there is a general sense that government intrudes too much into people's lives and takes too money in taxes. When you get into specific issues agreement tends to deteriorate.

That pretty much sums up the rather obvious.

I wonder what is next from the OP.

Then what does someone have to do to become a "RINO" or a Republican who is not a "real" conservative?

A RINO would be someone who is technically a member of the Republican Party, but adheres to none or very few of the official positions of the Republican Party. Someone who is not a real conservative would be someone who claims to be a conservative, but holds few or no positions that fall on the conservative end of the political spectrum.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It appears that those who identify as conservatives are now divided. Some remain as members of the Republican Party, others identify as Libertarians or conservatives and many simply state they are independent.
As a registered Democrat, moderate on some, liberal on other issues, I understand one party is not the be all end all for most of us. Democrats are used to in-fighting, and the joke that getting Democrats to agree is akin to herding cats is spot on.
Hence, my questions:
1) On what do all conservatives agree?
2) What issues differentiate a Republican from an independent or a Libertarian?

I have never seen a democrat in my lifetime vote against their party.

I have. They were called "Reagan Democrats".

 

[Cecilie1200]

A 12 year old on a little league team shot and killed himself with a handgun his father kept for the families protection. He did so because he got a "D" and his father said he would need to quit baseball if he got any "D's". He died holding his baseball uniform in the family livingroom.
Mark Twain wrote: There are liars, damn liars and statistics..

If he'd been alive today, he'd have added, "And then there's anecdotal 'evidence'."

 

[Darkwind]

It appears that those who identify as conservatives are now divided. Some remain as members of the Republican Party, others identify as Libertarians or conservatives and many simply state they are independent.
As a registered Democrat, moderate on some, liberal on other issues, I understand one party is not the be all end all for most of us. Democrats are used to in-fighting, and the joke that getting Democrats to agree is akin to herding cats is spot on.
Hence, my questions:
1) On what do all conservatives agree?
2) What issues differentiate a Republican from an independent or a Libertarian?

You can't really expect Me to think that your questions are serious when you make the claim that Democrats are not lemmings, do you?

Every Democrat I've ever run into spouts the exact same phrases that every other Democrat spouts. Herding cats. I have to admit, that is funny. Democrats as independent thinkers. To funneh.

 

[Emma]

"When government is big enough to give you everything you want, it's also big enough to take everything you have" Thomas Jefferson.

You and Cecilie should edit out Tom's name from that quote.

Search the Jeffersonian Cyclopedia

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot...in_year=&end_year=&sample=1-100&grouping=work


The Big Apple: “Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have”

WTF is it with people tacking Jefferson's name onto everything? There are plenty of inspiring, patriotic quotes from Jefferson --- you know, stuff he actually said. Why the need to make shit up?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Global warming is a hoax, and I hope that your recall championing it when the late night hosts are making you the butt of their jokes.

Feeling over data - you have made my point.

The idea that conservatives are anymore "data-driven" than liberals is just hyper-partisan nonsense. You just confirmed it. Not a single piece of peer-reviewed science (the data) rejects the influence of humans on our climate. You try to rebut with "feelings." You made my point.

Au contraire.

The global warming hoax is revealed as such more each day.

Of course I can post exposes of the silly subject.

But it is telling that you did not want to engage on the gun control issue, as it underscores how libs defy reams of studies that prove beyond doubt that the conservative argument is correct.

If you CAN produce a piece of peer-reviewed scientific work that rebuts human influence on climate change, then don't just claim it - produce it.

Why the emphasis on peer-reviewed work? Because SERIOUS scientists submit their work to their peers for rigerous scientific review - it's what REAL scientists do. Psuedo scientists submit their "work" to op-ed columns and politic publications rather than peer-reviewed scientific journals because their methodology and conclusions cannot withstand serious scientific review - but it CAN hoodwink a few of the gulliable.

So please provide this serious scientific data that refutes human influence on climate change or you are forced to admit that your opinion on this subject is driven by your feelings rather than data.

 

[nodoginnafight]

...and thus you rightfully questioned if stances on those two items were a litmus test. But you see, no where was there ever anyone actuaqlly saying that....but it was implied that he DID say that.

It wasn't IMPLIED that he said that - it was unequivocally STATED that he said it. Are you claiming that he DID NOT say it?

No....what I am saying is that the reporter simply added in that he cited those two as reasons....implying they were the ONLY reasons. He did not put in the quote.....he simply applied how he "took it"....
But in an effort to come across as fair and balanced he DID put a more accurate "quote" at the end of the article.
And if you noitced....it worked....even you....one who is involved in political debate daily, took the NON QUOTE as the fact and did not pick up on the actual quote.
I am sure the question came up as "what liberal views does she hold"...and they mentioned many things such as spening and taxes AND mentioned abortion and same sex marriage....
Take it as you wish...I see it as manipulation of the truth.

You admit the reporter included many reasons including the fiscal issues as well as the social issues but you claim it was misleading because of the order in which he listed them?
Is that because he listed them in an order that doesn't reflect your own priorities? I gather your first priority in grading the relative conservatism of a candidate is fiscal conservatism? Am I right?

If THAT were the only criteria, then I would be a conservative.

And while I share a belief that a fetus is a human being that deserves protection under our legal system, I hold several others views that are not consistent with what is traditionally considered "conservative."

Given the very unlikely opportunity, I'd vote to repeal the second amendment. I'd vote against the death penalty. I'd vote to allow gay couples to exercise every right and priviledge that straight couples enjoy. I'd vote against any government-sactioned expression of religion. I'd vote to provide a reasonable path to citizenship for illegal aliens as long as it provided a penalty for breaking the law in the first place that wasn't so harsh that it would keep these people underground. I'd vote to take reasonable steps to reduce carbon emissions.

I have a sneaking suspecion that if I were a member of the Republican Party, that I'd be labeled a RINO and not a "real" conservative.

 

[midcan5]

I was until now amazed at the republican coalition. For whatever reason, possibly his acting talents, Reagan helped create a coalition of disparate, mostly extremists ideologues or single issue voters. Government as bogyman, taxes as sinful, Gawd as spokesman, liberals as devils, welfare as stealing, abortion as killing, gays as aberrant, progress as a loss of freedom. I guess that is why today it has no grounding and no leaders. When your primary motivation is greed, selfishness, and disrespect for the rights of all people, there ain't a heck of lot of genuine America left. It is why they are killing their own (?) today. They're not sure they are their own.

 

[Oddball]

I guess when your primary motives are stereotyping, marginalization and self-congratulation, you can come up with tripe like that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I was until now amazed at the republican coalition. For whatever reason, possibly his acting talents, Reagan helped create a coalition of disparate, mostly extremists ideologues or single issue voters. Government as bogyman, taxes as sinful, Gawd as spokesman, liberals as devils, welfare as stealing, abortion as killing, gays as aberrant, progress as a loss of freedom. I guess that is why today it has no grounding and no leaders. When your primary motivation is greed, selfishness, and disrespect for the rights of all people, there ain't a heck of lot of genuine America left. It is why they are killing their own (?) today. They're not sure they are their own.

Concise, clear and correct. Nicely stated. Already one idiotgram has been posted, be prepared for the namecalling, I'm surprised Dude didn't call you a libtard or dumocrat.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It appears that those who identify as conservatives are now divided. Some remain as members of the Republican Party, others identify as Libertarians or conservatives and many simply state they are independent.
As a registered Democrat, moderate on some, liberal on other issues, I understand one party is not the be all end all for most of us. Democrats are used to in-fighting, and the joke that getting Democrats to agree is akin to herding cats is spot on.
Hence, my questions:
1) On what do all conservatives agree?
2) What issues differentiate a Republican from an independent or a Libertarian?

1) All conservatives agree on the constitution limiting the power and scope of the federal government. Conservatives also agree that smaller government and less government involvement in personal decisions is a good thing. Conservatives agree on running the government with a balanced budget (hence why you see many conservatives angry at their liberal republican representatives).

2) Republicans are basically liberals who are against abortion. The majority of elected republicans are not conservatives in the way that citizens who identify as conservatives view conservatism. Independants may fall on either side of an issue where conservatives tend to fall on the....well...conservative side. Libertarians and conservatives share similar view points on financial matters but they may diverge on social matters.

 

[Oddball]

I was until now amazed at the republican coalition. For whatever reason, possibly his acting talents, Reagan helped create a coalition of disparate, mostly extremists ideologues or single issue voters. Government as bogyman, taxes as sinful, Gawd as spokesman, liberals as devils, welfare as stealing, abortion as killing, gays as aberrant, progress as a loss of freedom. I guess that is why today it has no grounding and no leaders. When your primary motivation is greed, selfishness, and disrespect for the rights of all people, there ain't a heck of lot of genuine America left. It is why they are killing their own (?) today. They're not sure they are their own.

Concise, clear and correct. Nicely stated. Already one idiotgram has been posted, be prepared for the namecalling, I'm surprised Dude didn't call you a libtard or dumocrat.

Pffft.

If projecting your politicized neuroses onto others were the coin of the realm, you'd put Warren Buffet to shame.

 

[Emma]

I was until now amazed at the republican coalition. For whatever reason, possibly his acting talents, Reagan helped create a coalition of disparate, mostly extremists ideologues or single issue voters. Government as bogyman, taxes as sinful, Gawd as spokesman, liberals as devils, welfare as stealing, abortion as killing, gays as aberrant, progress as a loss of freedom. I guess that is why today it has no grounding and no leaders. When your primary motivation is greed, selfishness, and disrespect for the rights of all people, there ain't a heck of lot of genuine America left. It is why they are killing their own (?) today. They're not sure they are their own.

Don't forget their inherent and persistent paranoia and perpetual victimhood. They were (are) suspicious of everyone and everything. So it only stands to reason they wouldn't trust each other either.

 

[Oddball]

Speaking of projection.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I was until now amazed at the republican coalition. For whatever reason, possibly his acting talents, Reagan helped create a coalition of disparate, mostly extremists ideologues or single issue voters. Government as bogyman, taxes as sinful, Gawd as spokesman, liberals as devils, welfare as stealing, abortion as killing, gays as aberrant, progress as a loss of freedom. I guess that is why today it has no grounding and no leaders. When your primary motivation is greed, selfishness, and disrespect for the rights of all people, there ain't a heck of lot of genuine America left. It is why they are killing their own (?) today. They're not sure they are their own.

Concise, clear and correct. Nicely stated. Already one idiotgram has been posted, be prepared for the namecalling, I'm surprised Dude didn't call you a libtard or dumocrat.

Pffft.

If projecting your politicized neuroses onto others were the coin of the realm, you'd put Warren Buffet to shame.

Thank you for sharing Doctor. Where did you intern again?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It appears that those who identify as conservatives are now divided. Some remain as members of the Republican Party, others identify as Libertarians or conservatives and many simply state they are independent.
As a registered Democrat, moderate on some, liberal on other issues, I understand one party is not the be all end all for most of us. Democrats are used to in-fighting, and the joke that getting Democrats to agree is akin to herding cats is spot on.
Hence, my questions:
1) On what do all conservatives agree?
2) What issues differentiate a Republican from an independent or a Libertarian?

1) All conservatives agree on the constitution limiting the power and scope of the federal government. Conservatives also agree that smaller government and less government involvement in personal decisions is a good thing. Conservatives agree on running the government with a balanced budget (hence why you see many conservatives angry at their liberal republican representatives).

2) Republicans are basically liberals who are against abortion. The majority of elected republicans are not conservatives in the way that citizens who identify as conservatives view conservatism. Independants may fall on either side of an issue where conservatives tend to fall on the....well...conservative side. Libertarians and conservatives share similar view points on financial matters but they may diverge on social matters.

Well stated, thank you.
As to point number 1)
I suspect most liberals, progressives and Libertarians would agree with H.D. Thoreau ("The government that governs best, governs least") Yet, conservatives are generally opposed to a women's right to choose and many want the congress to put forth a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe; and, some liberals object to Marijauna being classified as a schedule I drug, denying the states the right to legalize, decriminalize, outlaw or dispense MJ as their citizens see fit. In these two examples, it would seem the conservative view is for more government intervention, and the liberal/progressive less.
As to point number 2)
I see the Republican Party, today, as a party of one tent with several rooms. In one room those traditional, some would say moderate Republicans who believe in small government, low taxes (not no taxes) and labor and capital as partners in an economic system where exploitaton is rare and comporise benefits both; a party which abhors war and involvement in nation building or entangeling alliances.
In the second, third and fourth rooms are the new Republicans, the neo-conservatives, social conservatives and self described independents; then there is the idiot fringe. Those who are both fiscally & socially conservative, extremely nationalistic, regionalistic, imperialistic and unwilling to compormise. They prefer Brinkmanship instead of diplomacy, believe zero sum games as strong, win-win efforts as weak, and a world where are foes are always against us and our allies always support us - and if they don't they are foes (hence calling anyone who disagrees with them is a RINO or worse).
I believe a two party system has served our nation well, the issues which divided the Federalists and the Democratic Republicans are still issues which we argue today.
In that regard I'm sorry to see the GOP stagger, maybe rooms one, two, three and four can begin to work together and banish the idiot fringe from their ranks.

 

[drsmith1072]

Where were all of these conservative republicans who believed in smaller government when W was president?? Aren't most of the republicans currently holding office and making these statements the same republicans that rubber stamped almost everything that W wanted in the name of national security??