Sergeant at eye of storm says he won't apologize

[concept]

The officer doesn't need to apologize for being a racist.
He should be reprimanded for making a totally unnecessary arrest all because his widdle feewings were hurt by being called a racist.

Whatever.

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert - Yahoo! News

The officer teaches racial profiling.

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on understanding racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

Obama has said the Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates last week when they responded to his house after a woman reported a suspected break-in.

Obama the stupid asshat should apologise.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Have you read the report?

Now, I could be wrong, but I believe if you refuse to show your id to the cops, they have the right to arrest you until they discover your identity. Plus, he had a call about a break in, if Gates refused to show his id, the cop had every right to arrest him until his identity could be determined, that's the cops job. Do you really think that if someone sees you break into your own home and calls the cops that you have the right to refuse to show id and you won't get arrested?

Gates keep YELLING at the cop. He was beligerant and he refused to back down. His conduct was disorderly and that's why he was arrested. Had he not been a Harvard prof with friends in high places, he'd most likely still be in jail.

Gates showed his ID. There was no question of his identity and that he was in his own home.

It would behoove you to read all the reports again. You will clearly see ( but then again maybe not) that Gates was asked three times to show ID, the third time he complied. Satisfied the cop was leaving, Gates having already hurled epitaphs and threats proceeded to follow the cop outside where he (Gates) was warned several times about his conduct, warnings he did not heed, therefore the only recourse the officer had was to place the idiot under arrest.
I tried typing slow so as not to confuse you. I hope that helped.

wrong.


the officer could've (and in my opinion) should've....left well enough alone. A power trip is not what we pay policemen for. Cop sounds like he has a thin skin. Lots of Cambridge cops do. I know this for a fact. I also know that if Skip Gates was at his old house on the other side of the campus, the police would've acted differently. Cops are almost always bigger shits when dealing with poorer people

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You are wrong on several levels. You are not required to produce ID. You are required to give your name. It is not a cops job to arrest people form the purpose of identification. That is pretty bizzare. They only arrest people when they have evidence that they have committed a crime. As we can see, Gates was not arrested for breaking in, failure to show ID or assualt or anything except "disorderly conduct".

A police officer has no right to demand ID, especially at my home. If he has reasonable cause to believe that I am a criminal, he can arrest me.

This whole idea that a cop has the right to demand ID is retarded. But MANY people think that's the way it is. Welcome to fascism.

So you'd rather be arrested for not providing proof that you are who you say you are.

That's the point: I do not have to prove anything to anyone. There is no requirement that you have to do anything other than give your name (and address I think). It's not incumbent upon any of us to continuously provide proof to every cop who asks, who we are. If he doesn't believe you, and he must have a reasonable cause not to, he can detain you for a reasonable amount of time and do his best to prove you are someone other than who you say you are. But he sure as hell doesn't get to arrest you or keep you indefintely. If I say I am Bozo Fartman then that's who I am unless you can prove otherwise.

You think? hahaah not so sure are you? The fact is you have to produce ID anytime an officer request it or risk going to jail. But since you don't mind going to jail then what is your problem?

What would prevent someone from giving the authorites a false name? And what if that false name that was given, had an outstanding warrant.

You have got to be the dumbest person I've seen in this group by far. Do yourself a favor and it may save you future embarrassment. Call you local police station and ask them what would happen if you refused to provide an ID when asked. And then ask them why they would even bother with such a request. I'll be back tomorrow to read your response.

 

[Diuretic]

I don't know who is racist or who isn't but the amazing thing is the belief that it is us, the citizens, who have to prove what it is we own, if it is our house, our car, etc. Some of you need a refresher in basic rights.

The burden is on the cop to have probable cause. The police do not have the right to make you prove anything. They have the burden of proof. How the fuck this got switched around in the minds of so many is beyond me. Are we now the new Soviet Union, like in the old spy movies, where there are men with guns around every corner who ask "let me see your papers"?

If I am putting a new roof on my house am I obligated to show any random cop my ID? Just so he can rest easy knowing I'm not roofing a strangers house?

This belief that cops have the right to demand identification at any given instance is absurd. This fucking country will have the police state it deserves. You fucking twits not only asked for it, you're already believing in it.

You've got it around the wrong way. The cop was investigating a report of a housebreak. If someone found in the house the subject of the reported breaking refuses (Gates didn't) to prove who they are then they are going to get arrested. It's only reasonable police work to ask for the person to prove who they say they are in those circumstances. What do you want the cop to do - arrest without inquiry?

 

[Diuretic]

This belief that cops have the right to demand identification at any given instance is absurd. This fucking country will have the police state it deserves. You fucking twits not only asked for it, you're already believing in it.

In this case I think the cop had a good reason to ask for ID. The house had been called in as a possible burglary in progress and Gates approximately fit the description of the suspects. That the cop then refused to show his own ID is inexcusable.

If the cop was in uniform and was wearing his rank and had a name plate presumably some part of his uniform also had his identification number, then ask yourself why Gates demanded the cop's id.

 

[Anguille]

The photo was AFTER the arrest, AFTER Gates followed him outsdie to his car. Were you born stupid or have you been working at it your whole life?

How did he get from the car back up onto his porch if he had been arrested at the car? How was he a threat to the officer by standing on his own porch? I don't think he ever was off his own porch till after he was arrested.

"How did he get from the car back up onto his porch if he had been arrested at the car?"

He walked.

So the cop just let him walk back up on his porch after arresting him?

 

[Anguille]

That's the point: I do not have to prove anything to anyone. There is no requirement that you have to do anything other than give your name (and address I think). It's not incumbent upon any of us to continuously provide proof to every cop who asks, who we are. If he doesn't believe you, and he must have a reasonable cause not to, he can detain you for a reasonable amount of time and do his best to prove you are someone other than who you say you are. But he sure as hell doesn't get to arrest you or keep you indefintely. If I say I am Bozo Fartman then that's who I am unless you can prove otherwise.

Carrying an ID on you is not required in this country, as you point out. It's a little disturbing that people think it is.

 

[Diuretic]

That's the point: I do not have to prove anything to anyone. There is no requirement that you have to do anything other than give your name (and address I think). It's not incumbent upon any of us to continuously provide proof to every cop who asks, who we are. If he doesn't believe you, and he must have a reasonable cause not to, he can detain you for a reasonable amount of time and do his best to prove you are someone other than who you say you are. But he sure as hell doesn't get to arrest you or keep you indefintely. If I say I am Bozo Fartman then that's who I am unless you can prove otherwise.

Carrying an ID on you is not required in this country, as you point out. It's a little disturbing that people think it is.

Fingerprints are good id

 

[Anguille]

Have you read the report?

Now, I could be wrong, but I believe if you refuse to show your id to the cops, they have the right to arrest you until they discover your identity. Plus, he had a call about a break in, if Gates refused to show his id, the cop had every right to arrest him until his identity could be determined, that's the cops job. Do you really think that if someone sees you break into your own home and calls the cops that you have the right to refuse to show id and you won't get arrested?

Gates keep YELLING at the cop. He was beligerant and he refused to back down. His conduct was disorderly and that's why he was arrested. Had he not been a Harvard prof with friends in high places, he'd most likely still be in jail.

Gates showed his ID. There was no question of his identity and that he was in his own home.

You said that Gage had the right to refuse to show ID, are you changing your story? Or just being dense?

No change of anything. Maybe you are being dense?
Gates did not have to show his ID. He did so anyway. He began by being cooperative, then when the cop refused to show his own, he got mad.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

How did he get from the car back up onto his porch if he had been arrested at the car? How was he a threat to the officer by standing on his own porch? I don't think he ever was off his own porch till after he was arrested.

"How did he get from the car back up onto his porch if he had been arrested at the car?"

He walked.

So the cop just let him walk back up on his porch after arresting him?

Yes, the man was handcuffed and escorted by police. The reason (if you'd read the reports) are obvious. One officer went inside to retrieve Gates' cane and they could not leave the premises until it was secure.

 

[Anguille]

The officer is N-O-T being asked to apologize for being a racist. He is (by my understanding) being asked to apologize for arresting a citizen who it was later determined was to ahve all charges against him---dropped---in the interest of justice(I suppose)

------

Have any of you idiots ever been on Ware St.? hahahahaha, I think the cop is exaggerating things in order to justify a charge. Ware St. might as well be student housing. Gates used to live on the other side of the campus with his wife, behind Julia Child's house. That might as well be Staff housing. I bet the cops would've had a different attitude had Skip been at his old home. I would bet much on this...having lived down teh street and witnessing how class determines a Police Depts policies

You might have a point, if there were not witnesses.

Wonder why the media hasn't interviewed Gate's neighbors who apparently came out of their homes to watch the specticle, having heard Gates yelling?

They have. Read the threads. Follow the links. On witness said the cop should not have arrested him.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Gates showed his ID. There was no question of his identity and that he was in his own home.

It would behoove you to read all the reports again. You will clearly see ( but then again maybe not) that Gates was asked three times to show ID, the third time he complied. Satisfied the cop was leaving, Gates having already hurled epitaphs and threats proceeded to follow the cop outside where he (Gates) was warned several times about his conduct, warnings he did not heed, therefore the only recourse the officer had was to place the idiot under arrest.
I tried typing slow so as not to confuse you. I hope that helped.

wrong.


the officer could've (and in my opinion) should've....left well enough alone. A power trip is not what we pay policemen for. Cop sounds like he has a thin skin. Lots of Cambridge cops do. I know this for a fact. I also know that if Skip Gates was at his old house on the other side of the campus, the police would've acted differently. Cops are almost always bigger shits when dealing with poorer people

Then you're a bigger idiot than I originally thought. Gates should have stayed his ass inhis house and kept his mouth shut. But no he had to go outsiode and cause a diturbance and continued after being warned several times. I understand you peopl ehate the police, but believe it or not, most cops ar decent people that love what they do and they do an excellent job. You and your kind, couldn't carry their fucking water!!

 

[Anguille]

You've got it around the wrong way. The cop was investigating a report of a housebreak. If someone found in the house the subject of the reported breaking refuses (Gates didn't) to prove who they are then they are going to get arrested. It's only reasonable police work to ask for the person to prove who they say they are in those circumstances. What do you want the cop to do - arrest without inquiry?

Di, the cop had no doubt who Gates was. Gates provided ID. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, The charges were subsequently dropped. This is not a question of a cop doing his duty, it's a question of a cop not doing his duty and abusing his authority.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

That's the point: I do not have to prove anything to anyone. There is no requirement that you have to do anything other than give your name (and address I think). It's not incumbent upon any of us to continuously provide proof to every cop who asks, who we are. If he doesn't believe you, and he must have a reasonable cause not to, he can detain you for a reasonable amount of time and do his best to prove you are someone other than who you say you are. But he sure as hell doesn't get to arrest you or keep you indefintely. If I say I am Bozo Fartman then that's who I am unless you can prove otherwise.

Carrying an ID on you is not required in this country, as you point out. It's a little disturbing that people think it is.

I challenge you to call your local police dept. and ask them if your required show proof that you are who you say you are when requested by an officer. I'll be back tomorrow to read your response.

 

[Diuretic]

Where was he actually standing when he was behaving in a disorderly manner?

 

[Anguille]

This belief that cops have the right to demand identification at any given instance is absurd. This fucking country will have the police state it deserves. You fucking twits not only asked for it, you're already believing in it.

In this case I think the cop had a good reason to ask for ID. The house had been called in as a possible burglary in progress and Gates approximately fit the description of the suspects. That the cop then refused to show his own ID is inexcusable.

If the cop was in uniform and was wearing his rank and had a name plate presumably some part of his uniform also had his identification number, then ask yourself why Gates demanded the cop's id.

We don't know that he was or if he was willing to stand still long enough so that GAtes could note it. I imagine it was his intention to report the officer.
Cops here do not always wear a badge and name tag. I had to ask a cop for ID once. His badge was in his wallet.

 

[Anguille]

"How did he get from the car back up onto his porch if he had been arrested at the car?"

He walked.

So the cop just let him walk back up on his porch after arresting him?

Yes, the man was handcuffed and escorted by police. The reason (if you'd read the reports) are obvious. One officer went inside to retrieve Gates' cane and they could not leave the premises until it was secure.

There were several officers there. No need to make Gates go back up on the porch. Since he uses a cane all the more reason not to make him go back up steps. There is much in the officer's report that is suspect.

 

[Diuretic]

We have actually discussed the dilemma faced by Professor Gates before. Regardless of the issue of race, it is a situation most of us find ourselves in at some point in time.

Many are the clients I have seen who, for reasons good or bad, came into contact with the police and were immediately initiated into the “Hey, I’ll Bet I Can Make This Situation Worse” club.

When law enforcement comes upon what may be a crime scene, they bring their human foibles with them. They also bring a need to stay in control of the situation. If you communicate, through word or deed, that you do not agree that they are in control, then, to them, you are being “disorderly”.

Or worse.

But aren’t there limits on that? Do we truly lose our rights to be secure in our homes or to speak our opinion when the police come to call?

Check out tomorrow’s weekly Attorney Sam’s Take for some answers about the mysterious cloud of “disorderly conduct”. That is still a lot to be said, so I expect it will be a two-parter, concluding on Friday.

This could be informative.

A Boston-Area Professor Arrested For Disorderly Conduct – Why? :: Boston Criminal Lawyer Blog

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Gates showed his ID. There was no question of his identity and that he was in his own home.

You said that Gage had the right to refuse to show ID, are you changing your story? Or just being dense?

No change of anything. Maybe you are being dense?
Gates did not have to show his ID. He did so anyway. He began by being cooperative, then when the cop refused to show his own, he got mad.

You're right he didn't have to show ID, but he would have been arrested that much sooner.

Think about logically, ( I know it's not an easy thing for you, but try) a house is being broke into the police is called to investigate, they find a man inside the house and he states it's his house, how does the police know it's his house? Simply because he says so? Would an ID showing the mans name and address be helpful in determining if that man did in fact live in the house that had just been reported as being broke into?

Take me up on my challenge and call the police dept. and ask them what their procedure would be in this scenario.

 

[Anguille]

That's the point: I do not have to prove anything to anyone. There is no requirement that you have to do anything other than give your name (and address I think). It's not incumbent upon any of us to continuously provide proof to every cop who asks, who we are. If he doesn't believe you, and he must have a reasonable cause not to, he can detain you for a reasonable amount of time and do his best to prove you are someone other than who you say you are. But he sure as hell doesn't get to arrest you or keep you indefintely. If I say I am Bozo Fartman then that's who I am unless you can prove otherwise.

Carrying an ID on you is not required in this country, as you point out. It's a little disturbing that people think it is.

I challenge you to call your local police dept. and ask them if your required show proof that you are who you say you are when requested by an officer. I'll be back tomorrow to read your response.

Do your own research, bozo. Have a nice day.