Separation of church and state makes him want to throw up

[hortysir]

Rick Santorum on Sunday took on separation of church and state.

"I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state are absolute," he told 'This Week' host George Stephanopoulos. "The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country...to say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes me want to throw up."

If this retard is elected, I'm going to consider becoming an ex patriot.

Racist!!!

 

[koshergrl]

"Teachers may, however, take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities. Before school or during lunch, for example, teachers may meet with other teachers for prayer or Bible study to the same extent that they may engage in other conversation or nonreligious activities. "
Prayer In School

 

[hortysir]

its illegal to have prayer in public school try again.

No, it's legal to pray in school.

It's illegal for teachers to endorse a particular religion.

you are sorely mistaken. you can not pray in a public school.

the United States Supreme Court ruled prayer in public schools unconstitutional in 1962

prove me wrong.

I can pray any and everywhere I feel the urge....including a school.

My grandson's teacher cannot lead his class in a prayer.

 

[Syphon]

"Teachers may, however, take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities. Before school or during lunch, for example, teachers may meet with other teachers for prayer or Bible study to the same extent that they may engage in other conversation or nonreligious activities. "
Prayer In School

is before school, after school or during lunch considered school now?

lunch may be the only one in question, but simply because they are on school grounds does not make it actually "school"

 

[koshergrl]

He thinks if he keeps repeating his own stupidity long enough, everybody else will catch it.

 

[koshergrl]

"Teachers may, however, take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities. Before school or during lunch, for example, teachers may meet with other teachers for prayer or Bible study to the same extent that they may engage in other conversation or nonreligious activities. "
Prayer In School

is before school, after school or during lunch considered school now?

lunch may be the only one in question, but simply because they are on school grounds does not make it actually "school"

 

[Syphon]

No, it's legal to pray in school.

It's illegal for teachers to endorse a particular religion.

you are sorely mistaken. you can not pray in a public school.

the United States Supreme Court ruled prayer in public schools unconstitutional in 1962

prove me wrong.

I can pray any and everywhere I feel the urge....including a school.

My grandson's teacher cannot lead his class in a prayer.

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

 

[koshergrl]

Does it become somewhere else at lunchtime?

 

[koshergrl]

I gave syphon way too much credit. What a waste.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

you are sorely mistaken. you can not pray in a public school.

the United States Supreme Court ruled prayer in public schools unconstitutional in 1962

prove me wrong.

I can pray any and everywhere I feel the urge....including a school.

My grandson's teacher cannot lead his class in a prayer.

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Actually, the student CAN lead prayer in school. Hence nearly every high school graduation ceremony beginning with a STUDENT led prayer.

You are a joke dude.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You really need to quit this line, it's not working for you.

i also just heard, since some people have decided that atheists and agnostics are religions, that they wanna have some of their symbols on federal buildings as well. i'm not sure what the atheists are gonna use but the agnostics' symbol will be...

"Maybe/Maybe Not"

"I also just heard"..
Your credibility just went up in smoke.
People like you barely have the right to an opinion.
Some people are too stupid to realize they are stupid.
Just sayin'.

 

[thereisnospoon]

"Teachers may, however, take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities. Before school or during lunch, for example, teachers may meet with other teachers for prayer or Bible study to the same extent that they may engage in other conversation or nonreligious activities. "
Prayer In School

is before school, after school or during lunch considered school now?

lunch may be the only one in question, but simply because they are on school grounds does not make it actually "school"

Do you not tire of being wrong all the time?
What is illegal is "school sanctioned prayer to a particular deity or promote a particular religion.
Students may pray as individuals or groups. Students may form religious organizations. Public school faculty, staff or administration are the restricted groups.
What you suggest would be an unconstitutional denial of religious freedom.

 

[FA_Q2]

you are sorely mistaken. you can not pray in a public school.

the United States Supreme Court ruled prayer in public schools unconstitutional in 1962

prove me wrong.

I can pray any and everywhere I feel the urge....including a school.

My grandson's teacher cannot lead his class in a prayer.

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Did you completely ignore Clay on the case he cited?

 

[Syphon]

I can pray any and everywhere I feel the urge....including a school.

My grandson's teacher cannot lead his class in a prayer.

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Did you completely ignore Clay on the case he cited?

just because it is on school grounds does not make it part of the school. there is a distinction. there are a few programs that meet on school grounds but are not school sponsored activities. hence my statement still is true, prayer is not allowed in school.

now if you want to get into technical semantics, if a kid quietly prays prior to taking a test, i dont consider that to be part of the argument. now if he tried to get up and lead the class in a prayer, that would cross the line.

 

[Spectre13]

Theocracy is probably Santorum's ideal government type.

highly assumptive. You have a reason to base that on, outside of an innate hatred for Christians and their faith? Would you hate muslim or Jewish theocratic rule ?

Innate hatred for Christians in their faith? LOL. My family is Christian. I used to be devoutly Christian but am not anymore. I know the dark side of Christianity but I do not hate it.

And fuck no would I want to live under Muslim or Jewish theocratic rule either. All three religious are highly misogynistic and have ridiculous rules in each of their holy laws.

And of course it's assumptive on my part. I can't say with any knowledge of what Santorum prefers, but he's always talking about pushing religious law into the government and have American citizens follow it... which is entirely what our country is against and absolutely entirely what his supporters are against, but only if it was under the veil of Islam instead.

Shit's all the same. Canon Law and Sharia Law and Halakha law are all stupid.

Unless I missed one, most theocracies are backward and terrible to behold. One will do the most ruthless and barbaric things under "GOD's" rule.

It is one reason I don't do dogma.

I just hate absolutes. As a science guy, to make any dogma, even scientific endeavors, one has to keep an open mind. As the man said, there are greater and lesser things in heaven and earth than are contained in your personal philosophy..., or paraphrasing if you would. you get the meaning.

It is one reason, I have problems with Einstein's theory of relativity. His absolute statement that one can never go faster than the speed of light is a bit presumptive on his part...seeing that we can't go that fast to test the hypothosis. I consider those theories refer to discrete points in time. I think the total concept is analog and much more far-reaching than that. He doesn't really deal with motion as a whole, but marking a point in time, which seems digital to me. Kind of like what some musicians hear when listening to a digital recording. Some say they can here between the discrete packets of information lined up next to one another. It is not the analog performance as a whole...if that makes any sense at all.

Oops. Sorry for digressing so badly....theocracies...yes back to that.

 

[JDzBrain]

is before school, after school or during lunch considered school now?

lunch may be the only one in question, but simply because they are on school grounds does not make it actually "school"

Actually...YES it IS!

The nanny state eduction system decided and federal courts upheld that students ARE the property...uh, responsibility of the state...LITERALLY and legally from the time they step out the front door for school till the time they walk back in the door at home.

So YES, the state believes those kids ARE in school!

As a matter of fact, it was a fascist school system trying to stop kids from praying on a sidewalk before school using that ruling that led to the court decision that non disruptive, student led prayer IS constitutional!

Can't recall the details off the top of my head, but I'm sure you can find it...IF you care.

By the way, I forgot to mention. I am an ATHEIST and I support school prayer AND god in the pledge of allegiance. Why? Because it is our LEGACY!

We were and ARE a religious nation. That fact is the ONLY reason that our rights are inalienable. Right now, 80% of Americans believe in a god, a divinity. When that number gets low enough, our rights become the property of man. Which is why Obama couldn't bring himself to say, "Endowed by their Creator" when he quoted the Declaration. Only when our rights come from man can he dictate to the Catholic church that they MUST violate their core tenants!

Add to that, that as one of our founders rightly held, our constitution is only suitable for a moral people guided by faith...I"LL TAKE MY LEGACY ANY DAY over the alternatives!

 

[Gadawg73]

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Did you completely ignore Clay on the case he cited?

just because it is on school grounds does not make it part of the school. there is a distinction. there are a few programs that meet on school grounds but are not school sponsored activities. hence my statement still is true, prayer is not allowed in school.

now if you want to get into technical semantics, if a kid quietly prays prior to taking a test, i dont consider that to be part of the argument. now if he tried to get up and lead the class in a prayer, that would cross the line.

My kids prayed all they wanted any time they want in school. Private prayer goes on everyday in the schools.
How come folks do not get enough organized prayer in their homes and want to have the schools lead their kids?

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Did you completely ignore Clay on the case he cited?

just because it is on school grounds does not make it part of the school. there is a distinction. there are a few programs that meet on school grounds but are not school sponsored activities. hence my statement still is true, prayer is not allowed in school.

now if you want to get into technical semantics, if a kid quietly prays prior to taking a test, i dont consider that to be part of the argument. now if he tried to get up and lead the class in a prayer, that would cross the line.

You sir are retarded.

School OFFICIALS can't lead prayer at ANY official school function, that includes recess , lunch, football games, or what have you. School STUDENTS however can lead prayer a group prayer at any time.

Of course getting up and talking in class is liable to get one in trouble no matter the reason, but it is NOT a violation of the first amendment violation, because the first amendment applies ONLY to the government which does not employee school kids.

 

[Disturbed1]

the problem with your argument is that once you upon up a hole like this, health care providers can then refuse to stop carrying products or services based on religious views. what if a catholic hospital refuses to admit a gay patient because they disagree with his/her lifestyle? what if a religious hospital refuses to admit an aids patient because AIDS (in their eyes) is a disease created to punish gays. what if a rape victim is brought by ambulance to a religious controlled hospital and that hospital refuses to carry emergency contraception.

this opens up a huge can of worms, and it actually a great argument for a single payer systems where everyone has access to the same care and services, while everyone pays the same price.

Health Care providers (such as Catholic hospitals) already don't provide certain services that go against their religious beliefs, for example they would not do a tubal ligation on a woman after she delivers a baby, if she wanted one. However, Catholic hospitals would not turn away a gay patient, because even though they may disagree with that person's lifestyle, they are still in need of care, they are still a human being who needs medical services. Would they provide medical services that went against what the Catholic Church teaches? No. But they definitely treat people who are gay, or who don't even believe in God or are even anti Catholic. This is basically an argument for freedom of religion.
As for your rape scenario I'm sure it happens already. Because I know for a fact Catholic hospitals do not and will not do anything to cause an abortion etc...they will treat the rape victim but if they want something to make sure they don't end up pregnant they have to go somewhere else.
Now you may not agree with it, but a Catholic owned hospital should not be forced to do something that goes against it's freedom of religion. That opens up a whole can of worms in itself. Don't you think?

isnt a bit hypocritical to say you don't believe in providing this service because i disagree with it, but then again agreeing to provide another services even though you disagree with that too? if a religious hospital is going to stay consistent with its beliefs shouldn't they refuse all services which violate their faith? if they are picking and choosing, then you could make the argument that it is not their faith which they are following consistently.

At what point did I say that Catholic hospitals are providing services they don't "agree" with. I did point out that Catholic hospitals don't provide services that are inconsistent with Catholic Tenets (contraception, abortion etc..). The fact that they treat patients who may not be Catholic, or live their lives in a way that the Catholic church may not agree with doesn't compromise them in any way. They are still staying true to their religious principles. Jesus welcomed all, that doesn't mean He did things that went against His beliefs just to accommodate them.

 

[FA_Q2]

and he cant decided to get up in class and lead a prayer either. hence, praying not being allowed in school.

Did you completely ignore Clay on the case he cited?

just because it is on school grounds does not make it part of the school. there is a distinction. there are a few programs that meet on school grounds but are not school sponsored activities. hence my statement still is true, prayer is not allowed in school.

now if you want to get into technical semantics, if a kid quietly prays prior to taking a test, i dont consider that to be part of the argument. now if he tried to get up and lead the class in a prayer, that would cross the line.

It was specifically mentioned, and ignored by you, that students regularly lead official ceremonies with prayer. Graduation was one cited instance where a student lead prayer is commonly initiated. So, no, your 'quietly in a corner' has nothing to do with what was pointed out.