Senate tinkering with Gun Sales

[DamnYankee]

Gun Deaths - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors


Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List
The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

(snipped)


OK, there is the problem. What do we do about it? Or do we just wait until those that do not like gun ownership do something?

Wow.... 10-year old CDC stats? Impressive....

Let's try this:

Gun-related deaths in the USA

Gun-related deaths in the USA


Statistics and causes
The definitive source for US injury death statistics is the WISQARS Home website which provides statistics on all deaths by injury, not just gun deaths. To get the number of gun deaths for a year just set the Cause of Injury to Firearm. If you only want to know the number of child gun deaths per year then choose the custom age range and input 0 years ( <1 ) as the lowest age and 17 years as the top age. Be sure to select "No Age-Adjusting Requested" if you are only interested in a particular age group.

Note that the CDC child gun death figures are typically half of the figures that the gun control lobby publishes. The difference is in the definition of a child. The gun control lobby counts young adults that are 18 or 19 years old as children, but they do not count 20 year olds as children. You can choose from one of two possible reasons, depending on your level of cynicism: 1. The standard CDC age groups used to go from 0-19, 20-39, etc and the gun control lobby couldn't figure out how to select a custom age group. 2. Counting 18 and 19 year olds as children doubles the number of so-called child gun deaths, and more child gun deaths means more support for gun control.

In 1999 there were 1776 gun deaths in the 0 through 17 age group and 3385 gun deaths in the 0 through 19 age group. By subtraction we find that there were a whopping 1609 gun deaths in just the 18 through 19 age group. Historically the 18 through 24 age group is the highest crime-committing group. At age 18 part-time drug dealers leave school and become full-time drug dealers. Despite the propaganda from the gun control lobby, criminals in general and drug dealers in particular are the group of so-called children most likely to be shot by their fellow criminals. You can verify this by reading the local gun death news stories in any city newspaper. School shootings are so rare that every one gets national television coverage, but drug dealers are shot so often that they are barely mentioned in their local newspaper.

Older people's gun deaths are most likely to be suicides. Suicides typically make up 56.5% of all gun deaths according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics Home page. In fact, drugs and suicides account for more than 2 out of every 3 gun deaths in the USA.

The best way to prevent gun deaths is to treat depression and other mental illness, teach children not to sell or use illegal drugs, treat drug addiction, and have police concentrate on enforcing drug laws. However, the gun control lobby says that we should spend billions of dollars on gun registration and gun licensing instead of using the money to treat depression and combat drugs. Click here for Gun Safety.

The accidental gun death rate has been falling since 1930 and US accidental gun deaths per year were down to 824 by 1999 according to the CDC. Note that it is extremely easy to prevent accidental gun deaths by following Jeff Cooper's Four Rules Of Gun Safety. Click here for Gun Safety Flyer: Jeff Cooper's Four Rules of Gun Safety.

Then, there's this:

Surprising Fact: Half of Gun Deaths Are Suicides - ABC News

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Local background checks and a ban on assault rifles are both good ideas.

You are half right.

Your are half wrong.

States with local background checks have less violent crime and fewer gun deaths.

Since the ban on assault rifles was lifted, there has been a rise in murders using these weapons.

You are BEYOND IGNORANT. The ban did nothing to stop the manufacture and sale of semi automatic weapons nor anything to cut the magazine size since there were tons of loose magazines around. All the manufactures did is remove that one minor feature that somehow magically made their rifle an " assault" rifle.

PROVE murders have gone up in the United States using supposed "assault" weapons. Then explain why they did not go up when people could STILL get the weapons minus one minor feature.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The sheer hyprocracy of the gun lobby is what is really stunning. There are far too many guns in the hands of people that should not be allowed within ten feet of a gun. There are far too many gun deaths in the US compared to other civilized nations that have a high gun ownership rate.

Failing to address these facts, just doing kneejerk reactions to the death toll that we are seeing, will only create a situation in which the anti-gun people will eventually dominate.

Statistics are not YOUR friend. Over 300 MILLION citizens in the US and around 30 Thousand die to guns a year of all causes. Do the math dumb ass.

More die to car accidents, about 40 thousand, and MUCH more die to bad doctors , about 120 thousand in a single year. Why not ban cars and Doctors?

Gun related deaths are INSIGNIFICANT statistically. Whether one compares deaths to population or to private ownership of weapons.

Let me help you out.

.01 of one percent is how many people die to gun related incidents. That is right 1 one hundred of a percent. That is one person per 10 thousand people.

You would deny law abiding citizens a PROTECTED right promised under the Constitution because of these facts. But have no problem with the deaths caused by Automobiles or by doctors or a myriad of other things that kill more people in a year.

And if you want to discuss ACCIDENTS , well only around 1000 people die a year due to gun related accidents of all types. Wanna do the math on THAT?

Most deaths are suicides , where in the suicidal person would have found some other means to kill themselves, Criminals using weapons, which gun control has ZERO effect on, Police using firearms, which again gun control has NO effect on.

And spare me the " the death matters to the family" , since that applies just as readily to doctors killing patients and car accidents.

And I just recently read a blurb that said police deaths in the line of duty are the lowest they have been in 50 YEARS.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Local background checks and a ban on assault rifles are both good ideas.

No one is going to take away anybody's guns nor should they.

Local and Federal background checks are done here. You can't take your weapon home until it clears.

Banning "assault" weapons is sheer stupidity. I personally don't see the desire to have a military-style rifle, but the idea that one is somehow more dangerous than a non-military style rifle is nothing but hype.

Your pretending no one is trying to take away the right to own a firearm is shot down by the fact that this argument even takes place on a regular basis.

No, your arguement that such weopons are not more dangerous in the hands of the maniacs is what is hype. Most modern hunting weopons carry five shots. Most are mechanical actions. The military weopons out there carry as many as 100 shots in the magazine, and fire as rapidly as you can pull the trigger. When you are firing at point blank range and do not care who you hit, that type of weopon is far more dangerous than a mechanical action rifle with only five shots.

Moron, MOST semi automatic weapons can only carry a magazine that has 30 rounds. Not one hundred. And this was NOT affected by the supposed Assault Weapon ban. As it did not make such magazines illegal nor did it prevent the manufacture of semi automatic weapons that were identical to the supposed assault weapons with one minor difference.

Most hand guns can only hold 15 rounds.

Now prove most murders are committed with military style weapons.

 

[DamnYankee]

The sheer hyprocracy of the gun lobby is what is really stunning. There are far too many guns in the hands of people that should not be allowed within ten feet of a gun. There are far too many gun deaths in the US compared to other civilized nations that have a high gun ownership rate.

Failing to address these facts, just doing kneejerk reactions to the death toll that we are seeing, will only create a situation in which the anti-gun people will eventually dominate.

Statistics are not YOUR friend. Over 300 MILLION citizens in the US and around 30 Thousand die to guns a year of all causes. Do the math dumb ass.

More die to car accidents, about 40 thousand, and MUCH more die to bad doctors , about 120 thousand in a single year. Why not ban cars and Doctors?

Gun related deaths are INSIGNIFICANT statistically. Whether one compares deaths to population or to private ownership of weapons.

Let me help you out.

.01 of one percent is how many people die to gun related incidents. That is right 1 one hundred of a percent. That is one person per 10 thousand people.

You would deny law abiding citizens a PROTECTED right promised under the Constitution because of these facts. But have no problem with the deaths caused by Automobiles or by doctors or a myriad of other things that kill more people in a year.

And if you want to discuss ACCIDENTS , well only around 1000 people die a year due to gun related accidents of all types. Wanna do the math on THAT?

Most deaths are suicides , where in the suicidal person would have found some other means to kill themselves, Criminals using weapons, which gun control has ZERO effect on, Police using firearms, which again gun control has NO effect on.

And spare me the " the death matters to the family" , since that applies just as readily to doctors killing patients and car accidents.

And I just recently read a blurb that said police deaths in the line of duty are the lowest they have been in 50 YEARS.

Meanwhile, I have a supposed math teacher giving me a lecture on statistics and sampling on another forum. No wonder public school education gets ripped so often these days!

 

[Missourian]

You are half right.

Your are half wrong.

States with local background checks have less violent crime and fewer gun deaths.

Since the ban on assault rifles was lifted, there has been a rise in murders using these weapons.

You are BEYOND IGNORANT. The ban did nothing to stop the manufacture and sale of semi automatic weapons nor anything to cut the magazine size since there were tons of loose magazines around. All the manufactures did is remove that one minor feature that somehow magically made their rifle an " assault" rifle.

PROVE murders have gone up in the United States using supposed "assault" weapons. Then explain why they did not go up when people could STILL get the weapons minus one minor feature.

Excellent point RGS. I wasn't aware of that.

This is from the Violence Policy Center - A foundation working to enhance gun control in America - put out before the Clinton ban expired:

"On September 13, 2004, the federal ban on assault weapons is scheduled to end. As this date approaches, increasing attention has focused on the gun industry&#8217;s almost complete success in evading the ban. Based on the research conducted for this report, the Violence Policy Center (VPC) estimates that there are more assault weapon manufacturers and assault weapons available for sale in America than ever before."

http://www.vpc.org/graphics/USofAW.pdf
​

And yet the murder rate dropped to 40 year lows:

.........Year --- Homicide rate
-------------------------------
1991 --- 9.8
1992 --- 9.3
1993 --- 9.5
1994 --- 9.0
1995 --- 8.2
1996 --- 7.4
1997 --- 6.8
1998 --- 6.3
1999 --- 5.7
2000 --- 5.5
2001 --- 5.6
2002 --- 5.6
2003 --- 5.7
2004 --- 5.5
2005 --- 5.9
2006 --- 6.1
2007 --- 5.9​

And according to the DOJ violent crime is at an all time low:​

Violent crime rates have declined, reaching the lowest level ever in 2005.​

Bureau of Justice Statistics Violent Crime Rate Trends​

 

[Chris]

Assault weapons should be banned. Just like RPGs, grenades, etc...

Violent crime has gone down because the population has gotten older.

 

[DamnYankee]

Assault weapons should be banned. Just like RPGs, grenades, etc...

Violent crime has gone down because the population has gotten older.

Please define "assault" weapon.

 

[Missourian]

Assault weapons should be banned. Just like RPGs, grenades, etc...

Violent crime has gone down because the population has gotten older.

Please define "assault" weapon.

When it comes to firearms, Chris is fact-proof.

 

[Kallus]

Assault weapons should be banned. Just like RPGs, grenades, etc...

Violent crime has gone down because the population has gotten older.

Please define "assault" weapon.

For people like Chris it would be defined by anything that has a barrel and fires bullets.

 

[ItsFairmont]

An assault weapon is a rifle that fires automatically.

An AK47 is usually paraded as an assault rifle, and people see it and shudder (or is that shutter???).


Anyway, show folks who don't know about guns an AK 47 and a semi-automatic deer rifle, and tell them one is an AK 47 and the other a deer rifle, and they will actually think there's a difference and that the AK is an assault rifle.

They think this because of TV or whatever print media messed with their heads.


You can buy a rifle at Bass Pro Shop that's just as dangerous as an AK47.


I think that only automatic rifles should be banned. They are too risky around others.

Semi-autos are fine. A guy like me doesn't want to reload very often. I'm lazy.

 

[DamnYankee]

An assault weapon is a rifle that fires automatically.

An AK47 is usually paraded as an assault rifle, and people see it and shudder (or is that shutter???).


Anyway, show folks who don't know about guns an AK 47 and a semi-automatic deer rifle, and tell them one is an AK 47 and the other a deer rifle, and they will actually think there's a difference and that the AK is an assault rifle.

They think this because of TV or whatever print media messed with their heads.


You can buy a rifle at Bass Pro Shop that's just as dangerous as an AK47.


I think that only automatic rifles should be banned. They are too risky around others.

Semi-autos are fine. A guy like me doesn't want to reload very often. I'm lazy.

Here's what's interesting about "assault" weapons, as defined by the legislation:

Assault Weapons Ban
On September 13, 1994, President Clinton signed the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act into law. The 1994 Crime Bill included landmark legislation by Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) to prohibit the manufacture, transfer and possession of military-style assault weapons -- weapons designed for war that can fire dozens of rounds of ammunition in seconds.

Since passage of the legislation, Senator Feinstein has sought to strengthen the law by closing the loophole regarding import of foreign made high capacity ammunition magazines. In May 1999, the Senate approved the Feinstein amendment as part of the juvenile justice bill to ban their import.

(snipped)

Senator Feinstein's assault weapons legislation prohibits the manufacture, transfer and possession of 19 specific types of semi-automatic assault weapons; The law also identifies key characteristics that qualify a weapon as an "assault weapon" so that so-called "copycat weapons" may be added to the list under the ban; and it bans the manufacture, transfer and possession of ammunition clips, magazines or other loading devices that hold more than 10 rounds. Weapons and ammunition clips that were manufactured prior to enactment of this law are not covered by the ban.

Senator Dianne Feinstein - Assault Weapons Ban

From the brochure in the link that was referred to by "19 specific types" above:

How is an assault weapon defined under federal law?
All semi-automatic assault pistols and rifles that can accept a detachable magazines and two or more assault characteristics; or semi-automatic shotguns with two or more assault characteristics.

Assault characteristics include:

For Rifles
Folding/Telescoping Stock
Protruding Pistol Grip
Bayonet Mount
Threaded Muzzle or Flash Suppressor
Grenade Launcher

For Pistols
Magazine Outside Grip
Threaded Muzzle
Barrel Shroud
Unloaded Weight of 50 ounces or more
Semi-Automatic version of Automatic Weapon

For Shotguns
Folding/Telescoping Stock
Protruding Pistol Grip
Detachable Magazine capability
Fixed Magazine capacity greater than 5 Rounds

Specific assault weapons banned under federal law:

Intratec TEC-9, TEC DC-9, TEC 22
Favorite weapon of drug dealers, according to BATF gun trace data
One out of every five assault weapons traced from a crime is a TEC-9, according to BATF
Comes standard with 30-36 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
One of the most inexpensive semi-automatic assault weapons available
Original pistol version, called KG-9, was so easily convertible to fully automatic it was reclassified by the BATF in 1982 as a machine gun
TEC-22 is very similar to TEC-9 and DC-9. Fires 22 caliber ammunition

AK-47
Norinco, Mitchell and Poly Tech AKs
Most widely-used assault weapon in the world
Now manufactured in many countries
Estimated 20 to 50 million have been produced
Comes standard with 30 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Some models are available with a collapsible stock to facilitate concealability
Developed in 1947 in the Soviet Union

Streetsweeper, Striker-12 and other revolving cylinder shotguns
Designed and developed as military and police riot gun in 1983
Popular models originally manufactured in South Africa
Manufacture shifted to two U.S. companies when importation was banned in 1989
Due to light weight, can be fired with one hand as a pistol, from the hip with the aid of a front grip, or from the shoulder
With revolving-cylinder magazine, can fire twelve 12-gauge shotgun shells in less than 15 seconds

Galil
Developed by Israeli Military Industries after 1967 Arab-Israeli war
Comes standard with 50 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Can be substituted for submachine gun, assault rifle and light machine gun
Accepts grenade launching attachment
Manufactured in Israel

Beretta AR 70
Developed in early 1968
Comes standard with 30 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Used by armed forces in many countries, including Italy, Jordan and Malaysia
Manufactured in Italy

Colt AR-15
Developed in 1956
Several million automatic, several hundred thousand semi-automatic versions produced over the past 30 years
Comes standard with 20 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Available collapsible stock facilitates concealability
Military version of the AR-15, the M-16, replaced the M-14 in Vietnam
Has served as the standard rifle of the U.S. armed forces and many other countries' armies around the world
Manufactured in the U.S.

fn/fal, fn/lar
First appeared in 1950 in Belgium
Adopted by armed forces of more than 90 countries, including Belgium, Canada, Chile, Ecuador, Ireland, Libya and Venezuela
Comes standard with 20 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Manufactured in many countries around the world, including U.S.

FNC
Intended for use by infantry operating in jungle, mountainous or similar terrain
Semi-automatic version introduced in the U.S. in 1981
Comes standard with 30 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Manufactured in Belgium

Steyr Aug
Designed to be light with particular emphasis on use from vehicles
Comes standard with 30 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger* (the manufacturer provides a 42 round magazine as an option)
Weapon of Austrian and Malaysian armed forces, and several Middle Eastern countries, as well as select armed forces and police groups in U.S. and Great Britain
Semi-automatic version made in U.S. in 1983
Manufactured in Austria

SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, M-12
Developed in 1970
Used by armies throughout the world, including Chile and the former Yugoslavia
Comes standard with 30 round ammunition magazine capable of being fired as fast as the operator can pull the trigger*
Compact design facilitates concealability
Externally threaded at the muzzle to accept a silencer and other attachments
Manufactured in the U.S.

* Number of rounds indicated is capacity of standard magazine supplied by manufacturer.
Larger capacity magazines of 30, 50, or 100 rounds of ammunition may be available.

Senator Dianne Feinstein - Assault Weapons Ban Brochure


So, what it comes down to is, even by the standards set by the federal regulations, there must be at least two other additional "assault" characteristics on an automatic weapon in order to qualify it as an "assault" weapon.

What we have here is knee-jerk reactions to legislators who have been screaming about "assault" weapons being so prolific. The legislators themselves would like for the public NOT to know what an "assault" weapon is so that they will get all up in arms (excuse the pun) about the need to ban this public health threat!