Senate health bill will embrace 'public option'

[Ame®icano]

Is this created by NEA?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ZE8uQFM7o]YouTube - "Saber Speaks"- Organizing for America Health Care Reform Video Challenge[/ame]

 

[Chris]

Shit, you can't even come up with a new complaint about getting your richly warranted bitch slappings.

Posts of nothing more than platitudes and pedantic false cause-effect relationships deserve nothing better.

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

 

[Zander]

Shit, you can't even come up with a new complaint about getting your richly warranted bitch slappings.

Posts of nothing more than platitudes and pedantic false cause-effect relationships deserve nothing better.

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

Have you got a link for that 3.4 BILLION dollars? It seems high....

 

[Chris]

Shit, you can't even come up with a new complaint about getting your richly warranted bitch slappings.

Posts of nothing more than platitudes and pedantic false cause-effect relationships deserve nothing better.

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

Have you got a link for that 3.4 BILLION dollars? It seems WAY too high.

How many fucking times have I posted that link?

I even posted a thread about it.

You really are naive.

 

[Chris]

Health providers, insurers and pharmaceutical companies have taken multiple approaches to winning over the federal lawmakers shaping the legislation. The health sector boosted its campaign contributions compared to the last presidential cycle, to $167.7 million in 2008 from $123.7 million in 2004. The various health industries have also steadily increased their lobbying efforts, from $448.1 million in 2007 to $484.4 million in 2008. So far this year, the sector has paid lobbyists $126.8 million to do its bidding on Capitol Hill. And those expenditures will only increase as the chairs of the five main committees working on health care legislation continue to iron out the details: Will the plan include a government insurance option? Will Congress mandate that all individuals, including the 47 million that are currently uninsured, purchase health insurance? And where will the money come from to pay for the reforms? The health sector--which includes some industries that are diametrically opposed to one another in their answers to these questions--eclipses all other sectors but the financial sector in lobbying spending since 1998, putting $3.4 billion into its efforts.

OpenSecrets | Diagnosis: Reform - Capital Eye

 

[Oddball]

Shit, you can't even come up with a new complaint about getting your richly warranted bitch slappings.

Posts of nothing more than platitudes and pedantic false cause-effect relationships deserve nothing better.

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

So the people who took the money are somehow more trustworthy?!?

Talk about naïve!!

 

[Chris]

Shit, you can't even come up with a new complaint about getting your richly warranted bitch slappings.

Posts of nothing more than platitudes and pedantic false cause-effect relationships deserve nothing better.

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

So the people who took the money are somehow more trustworthy?!?

Talk about naïve!!

Don't be silly.

The Republicans and the Blue Dogs in Congress are blocking the reforms, and the reason is the money they get from the lobbyists.

And once again, I ask the question....

Where do you think that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS came from?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where do you think the trillion dollars it will cost for the government take over of health care come from?

 

[Oddball]

Nothing but lies, lies, and more lies.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why?

Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to Congress in the last decade.

Where do you suppose the lobbyists got that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS?

So the people who took the money are somehow more trustworthy?!?

Talk about naïve!!

Don't be silly.

The Republicans and the Blue Dogs in Congress are blocking the reforms, and the reason is the money they get from the lobbyists.

And once again, I ask the question....

Where do you think that $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS came from?

Yet another pedantic deflection from the fact that the people who are taking the money are the ones you're looking to, as agents of change for the system that pays them.

Rube.

 

[Chris]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

no you're a lazy freeloader who doesn't want to pay his own way.

 

[Zander]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

Maybe you can play "secret agent" of change with your play dates?

 

[Chris]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

no you're a lazy freeloader who doesn't want to pay his own way.

Hardly.

I pay for all my healthcare out of pocket, so none of my healthcare money goes to lobby Congress to deny me healthcare.

 

[Meister]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

no you're a lazy freeloader who doesn't want to pay his own way.

Hardly.

I pay for all my healthcare out of pocket, so none of my healthcare money goes to lobby Congress to deny me healthcare.

So you have enough in your piggy bank for cancer, heart attack, or even rotator cuff repair, huh? Good for you, Chris.

 

[The Rabbi]

no you're a lazy freeloader who doesn't want to pay his own way.

Hardly.

I pay for all my healthcare out of pocket, so none of my healthcare money goes to lobby Congress to deny me healthcare.

So you have enough in your piggy bank for cancer, heart attack, or even rotator cuff repair, huh? Good for you, Chris.

Eighteen year olds seldom have those things. So it probably isn't a concern for him.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. there is no deathboards.
2. There is no free health care..
3. Try snd hsve a clue, before you open your mouth!

Actually, there are 'Death Panels' embeded in the bills.

The following may be too nuanced, as Senator Kerry likes to say, and so may require careful perusal, for those easily manipulated (if the shoe fits...) but the thrust of the paper is that ethicists, such as Drs. Emanuel and Blumenthal, may have neither the competence nor the political attitude to make the calls necessary.

I present it, knowing full well that the thinking might be beyond some us.

I recommend reading the full paper.

The following gives a view of the context required for one to understand why Obamacare, and specifically the input of bioethicists such as Dr. Emanuel, can be defined as ‘Death Panels.’

“Bioethics also depends upon the ethical systems which underlie them. Is what I do ethical because I have a good intention? Or is it good because God says so? Or is it good because a majority says so? Or is it good because its consequences are good? Or are questions of right and wrong meaningless and is all ethics basically a waste of time? Should bioethicists give up and get PhDs in behavioural economics?

Unfortunately, many American bioethicists give the impression that they have never given the philosophy or ethics which underpins their work much thought. One British philosopher has even complained that they are simply too stupid:
... it is all too evident that very many, perhaps the majority, of bioethicists are, to put it frankly, less than competent. I believe that this is a view a good number of philosophers share. The bioethics industry is, unfortunately, populated by many individuals whom one might even call second-rate philosophers. They have found themselves unable to grapple with the more technical or abstract areas of philosophy--or at least to make a name for themselves in such areas--but have found that it is relatively easy to forge a name for oneself in the bioethics business.

If this is true of second-rate philosopher-bioethicists, what about decision-theory bioethicists?

No one should subscribe to the reasoning of a bioethicist, even one as eminent as Dr Emanuel, without kicking the tyres. He should be asked two questions: what makes us human and what makes right right and wrong wrong. If we can agree on the philosophical bits, it is much more likely that we will agree on the practical consequences which flow from them.

Let's say that your mother has Alzheimer's and breaks her hip. Let's say that all the bioethicists on the hospital ethics committee have degrees in behavioral economics, psychology, decision theory or sociology. Would you find that reassuring? When tough decisions have to be made about her future, would you expect them to treat your mother as a unique human being with inalienable dignity? Probably not. Probably the thought would cross your mind that these guys may know a lot about quality-adjusted life years, but not a lot about how precious a human life is. In fact, the thought might cross your mind that this looks more like a death panel than an ethics committee.

No doubt the ASBH would respond, “Trust us! We are honourable men. Decent people like us would never ignore your mother's dignity.” Hopefully this is true of most members of the ASBH. But “trust us” is not a very persuasive argument.”

MercatorNet. A voice for human dignity. Our focus is parenting and family issues, bioethics, religion, philosophy and entertainment.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

And why, then, shouldn't everyone have the same right to buy insurance, or not buy it?

Your logic seem to have hit a dead end.

 

[Oddball]

Logic and Chrissy aren't in the same zip code.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey! I've got a great idea!

Let's get rid of the Insurance companies and replace them with a plan by the government that closely models a current plan that loses at least $60B annually to fraud and is TRILLIONS in the red!!!

 

[Skull Pilot]

We are the agents of change.

That's why I don't have health insurance.

I refuse to support the evil insurance companies.

no you're a lazy freeloader who doesn't want to pay his own way.

Hardly.

I pay for all my healthcare out of pocket, so none of my healthcare money goes to lobby Congress to deny me healthcare.

good for you so why do you want the government to pay it for you?