Senate Democrats Claim to Have 60 Votes!

[Liability]

But this vote allows debate, not passes it. I think that debate should be encouraged by both sides, it baffles me to see any kind of block to debate. But the again, that is exactly the type of behavior that makes me refer to them as our 'so-called leaders' most of the time. Both sides should be calling for debate on the issue.
bring on the debate.......

You have failed miserably to see the point.

Without the filibuster the "debate" may proceed to a vote. No filibuster can now prevent that vote. Since all that is required now to pass the legislation is a majority, it will pass. Period. It will NOT be in the same form as the House shit, but that is of no moment. For, in the end, the two different bills will have to go to "reconciliation." There, in the Senate, per its rules, there will no longer be any filibuster possible. On the reconciliation, the vote will thus AGAIN be a mere majority required. Thus, all that will be needed in the Senate is 50 votes (there are 58 Democratics). With just 50 votes, several Democratics can do the old bait and switch by pretending to vote "no." It won't matter. The vote that counted was the one to end the debate TODAY. The Tie-breaker can be Vice President Biden.

It is a done deal as of today's determination in the Senate to "debate" this shit.

Thus, the final monstrosity will be passed and of course signed.

The law it puts into effect does NOT actually go into effect for about 4 more years. But -- to my complete lack of surprise -- the taxes will kick in immediately.

Thus, before the socialists now running our government get excoriated by the voters for the horrors this disastrous bill will inflict on America, they will have been safely insulated by a re-election campaign that gets completed BEFORE the horrible effects of the legisaltion take effect.

Reid is a total fucking scumbag, but he sure as hell DID successfully cram this shit down the throats of all of us. If we don't want it -- tough. The liberal Democratics have spoken. It is finished.

Exactly. Now all the Democrats need is 51 votes to pass this bill. That means that of the 60 that voted to allow debate, 11 have to change their mind. It will never happen. This bill is a done deal.

Blanche Lincoln has successfully lost my vote, which will be relayed to her personally the next time I see her back home. She was already teetering on the brink of losing her seat, now she's all but guaranteed it. To make matters better, the likely candidate she's up against is actually a reasonable guy.

Yup except they need only 50 votes. Biden can then finish us off in the event of a tie.

If Reid could buy-off Landrieu with a legal $300 million dollar bribe to get the needed 60 votes, he can surely get 50 votes for the next step. Then all he has to do is get the same 50 votes for the final "reconciliation" vesion before Biden inflicts upon all of us the coup de grace.

America lost tonight. And it is a monumental loss.

 

[saveliberty]

Our present course brings these quotes to mind:

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together
in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal
system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

"Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone." - Frederic Bastiat

"One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence."
- Charles Beard

"The first step in saving our liberty is to realize how much we have already lost, how we lost it, and how we will continue to lose it unless fundamental political changes occur." - James Bovard

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." - Albert Camus

 

[Liability]

Random thought:

The Washington Compost has a couple of word contests. The one goes like this:

Take any word. Change it by adding, subtracting or Changing just ONE letter and then supply the appropriate daffynition.

One winner was

BOZONE which got defined roughly as "the substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future."

This led to my random thought:

A HOLE in the BOZONE allows light to penetrate

and this accounts for the occasional (albeit rare) incidence of some liberals becoming more and more conservative over time.

 

[Chris]

Our present course brings these quotes to mind:

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together
in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal
system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

"Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone." - Frederic Bastiat

"One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence."
- Charles Beard

"The first step in saving our liberty is to realize how much we have already lost, how we lost it, and how we will continue to lose it unless fundamental political changes occur." - James Bovard

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

"The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience." - Albert Camus

Oh, please!

You lost the election.

Get over it!

 

[Jon]

Oh, please!

You lost the election.

Get over it!

Wow, someone sounds like a 2001 Republican.

 

[Chris]

Oh, please!

You lost the election.

Get over it!

Wow, someone sounds like a 2001 Republican.

Except that election was stolen by voter suppression in Florida.

 

[Si modo]

Oh, please!

You lost the election.

Get over it!

Wow, someone sounds like a 2001 Republican.

Except that election was stolen by voter suppression in Florida.

And some wonder why they get no respect.

 

[kyzr]

The dems will never get 60-votes to pass UHC, especially if it merges with the House version.

The only question that really remains is will they pull the "nuclear option" and pass it with 50???

 

[sarahgop]

this also means dems win again in 2010. there really is no reason to vote if you are a conservative

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, it is passed. Now to the debate, passage, reconcilation, then passage and the Presidential signature.

Not what is needed, but a good start. We can develop it into a true universal health care system in the coming years.

Our present system costs over 17% of the GNP, doesn't cover 15% of our citizens, and leads to the medical bankruptcy of hundreds of thousands of American families every year. Japan spends just over 8% of her GNP on health care, covers all her citizens, has no medical bankruptcies, and does far better than we do in categories of medical statistics.

Wonder how far we can go toward a true universal health care system in reconcilation? Gonna torque your Conservative jaws

 

[Care4all]

Senate Democrats assured of 60 votes to debate health bill - CNN.com

If this is true they will defeat the filibuster. Although I think a public option is a good thing, this bill is a disaster! Its puts so much pressure and financial responsibility, on the already pressed and cash strapped, small businesses. It's not going to be pretty. Hit the business community any more and we could be headed towards a depression.

Gh

I am not certain it's correct on this mandate hurting many true small businesses....though i suppose it is all in the eyes of the beholder on what actually is a small business....

the reason I say this is that i had read in the bill, that a business has to have a minimum $500,000 payroll (or more) to be under the mandate of purchasing health insurance for their employees.....this leaves out many small businesses from the mandate....you would think? like all of those people that are in business who have themselves and a couple of other employees at most....

 

[saveliberty]

I think outright revolution is not going to happen. It will be a simple resistance. People in large numbers will simply drop out of the tax system and avoid supporting the government in a passive way.

 

[chanel]

I believe you are right. Small businesses that are close to $500,000 in payroll, will downsize to $400,000. Small businesses making $300,000 a year, will downsize to $200,000. Cash will be king, which businesses will not claim. Bartering of goods and services will make a comeback. People will find ways to avoid these new mandates and taxes - legally or illegally. There is a point where taxpayers have had enough. And we're almost there.

 

[Navy1960]

Listen this is not the end, this is just the beginning, yes the esteemed Sen. from La. got a big fat bonus for her vote to begin debate and I have no idea what the Sen. from Ar. got, other than a promise for a job after this one when she handed it over last night. The Senarte must invoke cloture in order to cut off debate and there are several procedures in the Senate that require 60 votes in order to proceed to a vote on the bill. For example, if a Senator wished to place a "hold" on the bill they can do so for as long as they wish provided that the Senator has objected to any unanimous consent agreement so while it only takes a simple majority to pass, we are far from that point. The real vote is the vote to cut off debate and invoke cloture and move to the vote itself. It will be a series of votes, if any of those votes before hand fail to get the required 60 votes then the bill cannot move to final passage. In between that time, let the dollars fly as they say, and we will see as in the case of Sen. Landrieu which votes can be purhased and which cannot. That does lead to an intersting question however, does giving healthcare money to one state in order to secure a vote violate the 14th Amendment as other states are not entitled to that money? As I have made clear in other postings this healthcare bill if you want to call it that has little if anything to do with healthcare reform and has more to do with getting the president the big "W". If people that support this measure were really in support of healthcare reform then they would never support taknig away healthcare from one group of Americans to support another and backrupting both at the same time.

 

[Liability]

The dems will never get 60-votes to pass UHC, especially if it merges with the House version.

The only question that really remains is will they pull the "nuclear option" and pass it with 50???

Sorry, but you too have missed the point.

The whole POINT of what happened yesterday is that there is no longer a filibuster option. They got the 60 votes needed to DEBATE. The thing will thus go to a vote and the vote will not require 60 votes. The vote on the actual bill only requires a mere majority. There are more than enough liberal Democratics in the Senate to muster 50 votes for this socialist shit. It is already a done deal. The chosen ones who want to APPEAR to preserve their "integrity" with their voters will now be able to vote "no." (It's bullshit. Just a head-fake, of course. They effectively voted "yes," already by choosing to vote yes on the question of continuing the "debate.") But the bill will STILL get 50 votes and it needs not one vote more since Vice President Biden can and will (if needed) cast the final tie breaking vote in the Senate.

Then, the Senate Bill and the House Bill will require reconciliation. SO what? The reconciliation vote, by rule, cannot be filibustered. It will again get at least 50 votes in the Senate. It is effectively already passed. The final form is yet to clearly emerge -- except that it will screw us big time no matter what its final form.

 

[Truthmatters]

Now we can improve the sucker and make it a good bill.

 

[EriktheRed]

Now we can improve the sucker and make it a good bill.

Problem is, things will likely get worse before they have a chance to get better, which will give the GOoPers the ammo to run on. There's been specualtion elsewhere that repealing this will be the issue in 2012.

 

[Liability]

Now we can improve the sucker and make it a good bill.

No. We can't. We lack the votes needed to stop it from getting passed and we lack the votes to gut it from doing the damage it is designed to achieve.

Nothing we can do about it. The most we can hope for is that there will be enough liberal Democrat Parody in-fighting (in the House and/or in the Senate or between the two Houses of Congress) to undermine the public option provision. But even without that disaster, the rest of the "legislation" will go into effect, and the massive tax increases associated with it will go into effect almost immediately.

We are royally fucked. The American People will likely NOT see how ruinous this idiotic socialist bill is until AFTER the next Presidential Election, since it was carefully crafted NOT to go into effect (substantively) until AFTER that election. This of course makes it a bit more likely that we will fail to remove the present infestation from Congress and the Executive Branch in sufficient numbers to enable us to repeal the legislation BEFORE it ever takes substantive effect.

If I failed to mention it, my bad. We are fucked.

 

[Truthmatters]

Im a dem my friend and yes we will improve it and make it better for the American people

 

[asaratis]

The dems will never get 60-votes to pass UHC, especially if it merges with the House version.

The only question that really remains is will they pull the "nuclear option" and pass it with 50???

Sorry, but you too have missed the point.

The whole POINT of what happened yesterday is that there is no longer a filibuster option. They got the 60 votes needed to DEBATE. The thing will thus go to a vote and the vote will not require 60 votes. The vote on the actual bill only requires a mere majority. There are more than enough liberal Democratics in the Senate to muster 50 votes for this socialist shit. It is already a done deal. The chosen ones who want to APPEAR to preserve their "integrity" with their voters will now be able to vote "no." (It's bullshit. Just a head-fake, of course. They effectively voted "yes," already by choosing to vote yes on the question of continuing the "debate.") But the bill will STILL get 50 votes and it needs not one vote more since Vice President Biden can and will (if needed) cast the final tie breaking vote in the Senate.

Then, the Senate Bill and the House Bill will require reconciliation. SO what? The reconciliation vote, by rule, cannot be filibustered. It will again get at least 50 votes in the Senate. It is effectively already passed. The final form is yet to clearly emerge -- except that it will screw us big time no matter what its final form.

I'll have to research this to find the truth...I heard a reputable Washington reporter say today that a filibuster is still possible. It would take a vote 60 to stop one. The recent vote was only to open debate on the Senate floor where filibusters take place.