self-defense

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by ekrem, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    We appreciate U.S. Ambassador Ross Wilson very much. He is a career diplomat trying to mend Turkish-U.S. relations with a very elegant style of diplomacy. Still, the fact that he speaks with a softer tone, and selects well the words he uses do not hamper his ability of delivering blunt messages to the Turks.

    �Turkey should not act alone,� the ambassador told reporters on Monday as he was heading into a meeting with Turkish Union of Chambers and Commodities Exchanges President Rıfat Hısarcıklıoğlu. He was answering a question by reporters who wondered how the United States would react to a possible Turkish operation into northern Iraq in view of the fact that the American envoy qualified the Israeli war on Lebanon as a �right to self-defense� by the Jewish state.

    He said the U.S. would not perceive well an intention by Ankara to engage in a unilateral act in northern Iraq against the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) holed up on the Kandil mountain range who have been staging cross-border attacks in Turkey, killing many civilians and security personnel and escaping back into their safe-haven there. �Cooperation between Turkey, Iraq and the U.S. will produce better results than acting alone,� he added.

    That's indeed the problem. While Turkey is wholeheartedly trying to support the Iraqi central administration in the hope that consolidation of the central rule in that country will help the creation of a better security atmosphere all over our neighboring country and at the same time boost border security, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani -- the leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), one of the two factions ruling the northern Iraqi Kurdish region -- has declared that an accord Turkey had signed with the former Saddam Hussein administration allowing Turkish troops to stage cross-border hot pursuit operations on the PKK elements in Iraq was no longer valid, while the northern Iraqi Kurdish entity -- which with U.S. blessing has been trying to consolidate itself as a full-fledged separate state -- has been very reluctant to take into consideration Turkey's security concerns and take action on the PKK presence in the region under its control that has become a territory off limits for Iraqi Arabs unless they obtain some sort of a visa from the local Massoud Barzani -- the leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) -- government.

    Talabani sitting at the president's chair in Baghdad would not want to cooperate with Turkey and declare all past anti-terror cooperation schemes invalid, Barzani sitting at the �regional leader� chair at Suleymaniyah would not act against the PKK presence in northern Iraq, the American troops would not cooperate with Turkey citing their own security problems and Turkey would sit back and enjoy the situation as in that joke the elderly mother advises her daughter to make if she realizes that rape has become unavoidable.

    We are just frustrated sitting back and enjoying ourselves because we keep on receiving body bags from the Southeast and empty pledges from top U.S. executives and challenges from the Iraqi Kurdish chieftains who apparently believe that the current situation in their country is sustainable and the United States will be there forever to help them out.

    We no longer want to hear our American friends pledging to �double� their �anti-PKK cooperation� with Turkey. We want to see action, or they should just stay away, and not cripple our capability to act.

    What kind of a world is this? A country has all the legitimate �right to self-defense� and can open an all-out war on an independent country because terrorists held hostage three of its soldiers, but another country cannot have such a right and must wait for the appropriate time for its "allies" so that a �joint action� could be taken. When, who knows?

    Of course Turkey should act according to international law. Of course Turkey should -- as it has been doing for the past many years -- explain to the Iraqi administration in Baghdad and the American occupation commanders the need to act together against the PKK threat. But, Turkey should at the same time retain its right to take unilateral action as required by the national and territorial security of this country should such calls fall on deaf ears.

    Fine, Turkey should not act alone… When are we going to take action together? When are you going to close the terrorist hideouts in the Kandil range? When are you going to close down the Mahmour recruitment center of the gang in northern Iraq? When are you going to cut the financial network supporting the gang? How many of our loved ones need to die before you understand the severity of our suffering?

    Turkey is no banana republic that can leave its security to the mercy of others…

    http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=49165

    Israel burning the Middle East for 2 soldiers and USA and UN assisting.
    But Turkey loosing about 480 people in 17 Months and 13 alone in 2 days is not granted the same right?
    No, it is only the USA who is not granting this action although Turkey has its right on its side.
    Now it is serious and Turkey has given USA ultimatum and your government is good adviced to follow this ultimatum.
     
  2. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    When it Rains it Pours [Michael Rubin]
    Policymakers often have trouble following more than one crisis at a time, but in this case they may have to. Kurdish PKK terrorists have killed more than a dozen Turks in the last couple days in an ambush and a mine incident. Turkish forces are threatening to enter northern Iraq to stop Iraqi Kurdish from offering their Turkish counterparts safe haven if the U.S. and Iraq do not take action in the next few days. It’s fever pitch in Ankara.

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDdlMmU1ODY0YzFjYzkwNjhjNjNlZjg3MjE0Yzc0MTk=




    ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan rapped the United States on Tuesday for tolerating Israel's attacks on its enemies in Lebanon while refusing to allow Ankara to crush Kurdish rebels hiding in northern Iraq.

    Erdogan is under mounting domestic pressure to get tough with the rebels, who have killed 16 Turkish security personnel in separate attacks over the past week.

    "The way they look at terror there (in Israel) and in Turkey is not the same. They show tolerance towards country A (fighting terrorism) and show a different approach to country B. This is unacceptable," Erdogan said.

    He did not mention the United States or Israel by name but it was clear to whom he was referring. Erdogan, whose roots are in political Islam, has previously criticised Israel's actions.

    Erdogan also repeated hints that Turkey might send troops across the border into Iraq to tackle the rebels if U.S. and Iraqi troops continued to ignore Ankara's demands to act.

    "Turkey knows how to take care of itself. The relevant security institutions are working on this matter," Erdogan told a meeting of the foreign economic relations council.

    Ankara has long urged U.S. and Iraqi forces to crack down on several thousand militants of the banned Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) holed up in the mountains of mainly Kurdish northern Iraq, which they use as a springboard to attack targets inside Turkey.

    The United States, like Turkey and the European Union, views the PKK as a terrorist organisation, but says broader security problems in Iraq prevent the kind of full-scale military crackdown on the group that Ankara demands.

    http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...C_0_UK-SECURITY-TURKEY-USA.xml&archived=False
     
  3. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Gvt gives army “political directives” on cross-border operation in Iraq

    It is unlikely that Ankara would carry out a cross-border operation into northern Iraq before the change in command of the armed forces in August, sources suggested.

    ANKARA - Turkey�s government has issued a series of political directives to the Turkish Armed Forces to plan for a possible cross-border operation into northern Iraq to wipe out presence of terrorist organisation the PKK.
    The Turkish General Staff has begun working on studies setting out PKK targets in the region, the scope and potential requirements for a military operation plan to be presented to the government.

    The cabinet met late Monday to assess plans to apply pressure on the US and Iraq to end the presence of the PKK in northern Iraq. However, reports emanating from the meeting said that if political pressure was unsuccessful, military operations would be conducted.

    The government also directed the Foreign Ministry to carry out a study on the political risks of Turkey carrying out a cross-border operation into northern Iraq.

    -----------------------


    NO more talking. Either you bomb them or we will do it and show "Iraqi democracy" harbouring terrorists a lesson they will not forget.

    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/380014.asp
     
  4. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    A summit on fight against terrorism took start in Turkish Prime Ministry HQ in Ankara on Monday.

    The summit chaired by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will focus on new measures to be taken against terrorist organization PKK.

    Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul,
    Chief of General Staff Gen. Hilmi Ozkok,
    Justice Minister Cemil Cicek,
    Interior Minister Abdulkadir Aksu,
    National Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul,
    Finance Minister Kemal Unakitan,
    Land Forces Commander Gen. Yasar Buyukanit,
    Gendarmery Forces Commander Gen. Fevzi Turkeri,

    Prime Ministry Undersecretary Omer Dincer,
    National Security Council (MGK) SG Yigit Alpogan,
    National Intelligence Organization (MIT) Deputy Undersecretary Cemal Uzgoren

    and bureaucrats are in attendance of the summit.

    The Anti-Terror Supreme Board had convened on Sunday for an extraordinary session.

    http://www.anatoliantimes.com/hbr2.asp?id=133907


    No bluff. Preparations are going on for months
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31094
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    I can see where if I were a Turk I would angry at the double standard. Turkey has the right to defend itself from terrorism too. I would imagine that the problem arises from other agendas that Turkey has for the territory and people in that area.
     
  6. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    If you please would precise what you meant with your last sentence (Imagine....) i could understand and answer.
     
  7. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    The US is already in the middle of a huge balancing act to try to get Kurds, Shia and Sunni. To stop killing each other long enough to form some semblance of a government. If Iraq decides to invade the north it would certainly complicate matters. Does Turkey want to take territory? Does Turkey want to eradicate Kurds. What are Turkeys goals and intentions and how do they propose to accomplish them ?
     
  8. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Nice questions. Although it is unpolite to let follow a question on a question, here my questions:

    Do you want by killing Al-Qaeda ti erdicate Muslims or Arabs?
    Did USA wanted Territory by marching into Iraq?
    What are USA intentions by backing PKK?

    I tell you one thing. Our government consists mainly of turkish-kurdish citzens and conservative Muslims. Our government by giving orders to march into North-Iraq risks very much a split in its own party.
    But the situation getting worser to worser from day to day. The people on the streets demand revenge and definitive elimination of anti-turkish Terrorists in our neigbourhood. This is a consens beetween opposition, army, people on the street and everyone else. Our government can not hold against this pressure forever. But it tried for a very very long time. Elections are comeing and Turkey's public agenda shifted now for months from economy or EU to Terrorism and our neighbours.

    A sign to underline this is the actual EU backed Eurobarometer poll, which indicates that only 44% support EU-negotiations beetween Turkey and EU.
    2 Years ago it was 85 %.
    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/379596.asp

    Government has failed in Terrorism-politics simply by not focussing on it. Instead always EU, economy, democratization and soon. And now is the time that environment of Turkey lets Government reaarange its policy not to take the bill on election day.

    But these above things is not the important things. The real important thing is as Americans like you think, we would annex North-Iraq and other things by marching into Iraq.
    So why do you give us even a reason for march into Iraq? It is simple: Just eliminate PKK and everything is ok.
    But this is not the case. USA is, diplomatically speaking, backing PKK presence.
    It is very paradox. On one side you need Turkey for "Greater MIddle East Project" and other Interests in the world such as Fight against Terrorism or energy projects, on the other side you play games on Turkey.

    So the reason is, which factors are behind all this?
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32974

    Our government was very passive and swallowed everything comeing from USA and EU. I think in Washington there is a common view that current Turkey, as long it has a government which needs support of EU and USA must swallow everything.
    And our government by doing this even seemed to adopt to be a extended tribal family which USA likes to rule in different parts of this world.

    One thing is sure,
    When we go in we will stay there and i cannot see anyone who can kick us out and this will have multi-effects for the region and especially for you.
    But now things are getting different and as opposed to to my other threads and even my first post on this forum exactly with this issue, Turkish public holds the cards in its hand not primarily our Government.

    Now it is ultimatum for USA and i predict here, that USA will do nothing against PKK and Turkey will definately march into North-Iraq knowing all consequences for Turkey, Iraq, USA and the whole Region. And i want to see which US-force wants to stop Turkish army.
    By all knowing this there is still the question why it did have to come to this point.

    When Turkish Army crosses borders, we will decide, and other will react. Now it is: Others decide we react.

    Now as a american, you or a other forumer, explain me, why is USA all this risking. I mean we are not talking of any saints or angels, we talk of a Terrorist organization which USA backs. What importance has this Terror organization in American Plans for the middle east so that above predicted things are being risked by USA ?
    Good question. Things will get very dirty once USA will not act against PKK and Turkish army takes initiative after more than 3 years in its own hands.
     
  9. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Turkey didn't just do everything that was asked---they refused the use of thier territory to attack Iraq from the north. It is naturally free to attack the Kurds now if they must defend themselves. I was just giving you some guesses as to why the US would rather Turkey NOT invade northern Iraq. Go ahead--take your chances. What is Turkey going to do when Syria is bombed?
     
  10. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    When our current government came to power, there was no PKK-problem anymore. No attacks.
    PKK-leader Öcalan was captured before and PKK fled to Iraq.

    With our current government comeing to Power and USA backing PKK, they reorganized, buy weapons, make logistics, get C4-training and finances in North-Iraq.
    Turkey does not negotiate with Terrorists and so PKK anouncing a truce after we captured their leader, we in Turkey did not care because what Terrorists declare is no business for us.
    In 2005 PKK ended its one sided truce and with all above factors (training, logistic, finance, waepons) what they all got foprm North-Iraq they stepped up fight against Turkey.

    So our government on one side has the fame of economy datas, but on the other side with hundreds of deads and Terrorism. And government till this point only watched Turks getting bombed.
     

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