SEE! something other than free market capitalism DOES work!

[Life_Long_Dem!]

OSLO - When capitalism seemed on the verge of collapse last fall, Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s Socialist finance minister and a longtime free market skeptic, did more than crow.

As investors the world over sold in a panic, she bucked the tide, authorizing Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.

“The timing was not that bad,” Ms. Halvorsen said, smiling with satisfaction over the broad worldwide market rally that began in early March.

The global financial crisis has brought low the economies of just about every country on earth. But not Norway.

With a quirky contrariness as deeply etched in the national character as the fjords carved into its rugged landscape, Norway has thrived by going its own way. When others splurged, it saved. When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state.

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

NYT: Thriving Norway’s economics lesson - The New York Times- msnbc.com

 

[Xenophon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Notice the nation on top.

Our system has lead the world for years, and you want to follow an inferior system.

 

[Life_Long_Dem!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Notice the nation on top.

Our system has lead the world for years, and you want to follow an inferior system.

inferior sysyem...yet they are the ONLY nation not feeling the effects of the crisis and have a surplus and are debt free...OK whatever you say!

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

 

[Toro]

A third of all spending in the US is government spending, and there are something like 500% more regulations on the books than there were 40 years ago.

So this idea that America is an unregulated bastion of free market capitalism is more than a little exaggeration. In truth, all economies are mixed economies. The only difference is degree.

 

[Pyrite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Notice the nation on top.

Our system has lead the world for years, and you want to follow an inferior system.

Actually, Norway's per capita GDP, $95,062 is a bit more than twice ours, at 46,859. GDP taken as a whole is not representative, as Norway is home to only four and a half million people, as opposed to our 300 million.

 

[neurosport]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Notice the nation on top.

Our system has lead the world for years, and you want to follow an inferior system.

Actually, Norway's per capita GDP, $95,062 is a bit more than twice ours, at 46,859. GDP taken as a whole is not representative, as Norway is home to only four and a half million people, as opposed to our 300 million.

yeah but those cocksuckers have OIL. and they only need to split it 4 million ways. we have nothing and we have to split this nothing 300 million ways ...

of course they have a welfare state - it's not like you have to work for oil - its just there.

of course in America some cocksucker would bribe the government to privatize the oil and nobody but his fat ass would ever see a penny.

 

[Pyrite]

yeah but those cocksuckers have OIL. and they only need to split it 4 million ways. we have nothing and we have to split this nothing 300 million ways ...

of course they have a welfare state - it's not like you have to work for oil - its just there.

of course in America some cocksucker would bribe the government to privatize the oil and nobody but his fat ass would ever see a penny.

They're ahead of Saudi Arabia, whose per capita GDP is only $23,834, almost half ours.

But maybe they really have THAT much more oil than Saudi arabia. I'm not an expert on oil reserves.

 

[neurosport]

yeah but those cocksuckers have OIL. and they only need to split it 4 million ways. we have nothing and we have to split this nothing 300 million ways ...

of course they have a welfare state - it's not like you have to work for oil - its just there.

of course in America some cocksucker would bribe the government to privatize the oil and nobody but his fat ass would ever see a penny.

They're ahead of Saudi Arabia, whose per capita GDP is only $23,834, almost half ours.

But maybe they really have THAT much more oil than Saudi arabia. I'm not an expert on oil reserves.

Saudi Arabia and Norway have roughly the same GDP.

and just because SA has bigger RESERVES doesn't mean Norway can't pump oil at same RATE.

I am not saying that Norway, like SA actually DEPENDS on OIL revenues but it is certainly a boost. It's not fair to compare Norway to US.

I don't see US as competing against Norway. I see US as competing against Japan and Germany.

not much changed since WW2 heh ?

 

[Agnapostate]

Considering that free market capitalism is a nonexistent and utopian fantasy, it would be exceedingly more difficult to identify instances of its own functioning.

 

[sealybobo]

OSLO - When capitalism seemed on the verge of collapse last fall, Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s Socialist finance minister and a longtime free market skeptic, did more than crow.

As investors the world over sold in a panic, she bucked the tide, authorizing Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.

“The timing was not that bad,” Ms. Halvorsen said, smiling with satisfaction over the broad worldwide market rally that began in early March.

The global financial crisis has brought low the economies of just about every country on earth. But not Norway.

With a quirky contrariness as deeply etched in the national character as the fjords carved into its rugged landscape, Norway has thrived by going its own way. When others splurged, it saved. When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state.

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

NYT: Thriving Norway’s economics lesson - The New York Times- msnbc.com

I heard about this on Air America. When their economy slipped, they offered even more cradle to grave benefits.

So if you lost your job, you didn't have to worry about healthcare.

And school is free so no biggy if you have to go back and get retrained.

 

[Paulie]

A third of all spending in the US is government spending, and there are something like 500% more regulations on the books than there were 40 years ago.

So this idea that America is an unregulated bastion of free market capitalism is more than a little exaggeration. In truth, all economies are mixed economies. The only difference is degree.

Yeah it would be nice if the liberals here would stop pretending that there is anything close to free market capitalism in the US.

 

[Paulie]

Considering that free market capitalism is a nonexistent and utopian fantasy, it would be exceedingly more difficult to identify instances of its own functioning.

It exists in microcosms throughout our society. As a whole, our economy is nowhere close to free market capitalism. But when you break down tiny little market transactions within a community, you can find all kinds of great examples of free market capitalism working and working well.

An example would be, in my community we have events called block parties where vendors set up booths and sell their merchandise. There's no taxation involved, it's just the seller and the buyer making a transaction. Some even barter and don't require just paper currency for a sale.

Your local swap meet is also a good example. Or a yard/garage sale.

 

[Agnapostate]

It exists in microcosms throughout our society. As a whole, our economy is nowhere close to free market capitalism. But when you break down tiny little market transactions within a community, you can find all kinds of great examples of free market capitalism working and working well.

An example would be, in my community we have events called block parties where vendors set up booths and sell their merchandise. There's no taxation involved, it's just the seller and the buyer making a transaction. Some even barter and don't require just paper currency for a sale.

Your local swap meet is also a good example. Or a yard/garage sale.

No, it isn't. Firstly, economic structure cannot be reduced to the individual economic agent or anything near it (or a labor cooperative or collective could be called "a little socialism," which would be absurd), and secondly, market exchange alone is not a sufficient condition for capitalism, inasmuch as both market exchange and competitive market enterprise can exist in a socialist economy.

 

[sealybobo]

A third of all spending in the US is government spending, and there are something like 500% more regulations on the books than there were 40 years ago.

So this idea that America is an unregulated bastion of free market capitalism is more than a little exaggeration. In truth, all economies are mixed economies. The only difference is degree.

Yeah it would be nice if the liberals here would stop pretending that there is anything close to free market capitalism in the US.

We were the ones who told you stupid. Remember you were calling Obama a socialist? And we told you that America has a progressive tax, so America has some socialist policies, and the UK has some capitalistic traits.

We told you, so don't try to flip it now.

PS. I love it how you guys say the free market wasn't free enough and that was the problem. As if we are ever going to try your way again.

 

[elvis]

OSLO - When capitalism seemed on the verge of collapse last fall, Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s Socialist finance minister and a longtime free market skeptic, did more than crow.

As investors the world over sold in a panic, she bucked the tide, authorizing Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.

“The timing was not that bad,” Ms. Halvorsen said, smiling with satisfaction over the broad worldwide market rally that began in early March.

The global financial crisis has brought low the economies of just about every country on earth. But not Norway.

With a quirky contrariness as deeply etched in the national character as the fjords carved into its rugged landscape, Norway has thrived by going its own way. When others splurged, it saved. When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state.

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

NYT: Thriving Norway’s economics lesson - The New York Times- msnbc.com

Another socialist post. European countries have enjoyed CONSISTENT double-digit unemployment over the past 10-15 years. I pray to God socialism doesn't come here.

 

[Agnapostate]

Another socialist post. European countries have enjoyed CONSISTENT double-digit unemployment over the past 10-15 years. I pray to God socialism doesn't come here.

Social democracy is not a sufficient condition for "socialism."

 

[editec]

The only free market I know of is the illegal drug market.

Since it's entirely illegal, anyway, it's producers and distributors operate as one of those anarchic socialist kinda deals that Agna so often speaks of.

Well, not entirely like Agna proposes of course....but it's got that anarchic part of his system down pat.

It's that cooperative managment voting thing the drug cartels have still got to work on.

 

[elvis]

Another socialist post. European countries have enjoyed CONSISTENT double-digit unemployment over the past 10-15 years. I pray to God socialism doesn't come here.

Social democracy is not a sufficient condition for "socialism."

I pray that social democracy never comes to the US, then.

 

[Paulie]

It exists in microcosms throughout our society. As a whole, our economy is nowhere close to free market capitalism. But when you break down tiny little market transactions within a community, you can find all kinds of great examples of free market capitalism working and working well.

An example would be, in my community we have events called block parties where vendors set up booths and sell their merchandise. There's no taxation involved, it's just the seller and the buyer making a transaction. Some even barter and don't require just paper currency for a sale.

Your local swap meet is also a good example. Or a yard/garage sale.

No, it isn't. Firstly, economic structure cannot be reduced to the individual economic agent or anything near it (or a labor cooperative or collective could be called "a little socialism," which would be absurd), and secondly, market exchange alone is not a sufficient condition for capitalism, inasmuch as both market exchange and competitive market enterprise can exist in a socialist economy.

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've seen you say on this board yet when it comes to economics.

You said there was no existence of free market capitalism that works, and I showed you that there is. When I take my items and put them out on my lawn to sell to passersby, that is the free market in action. No regulations, no taxation, just two people making a transaction. If that's not good enough for you as an example of the free market at work, then there's really no hope for you, and you're just obviously blinded by your OWN partisan ideological thought.

On the real Agna, why do you live in this country? You seem to like so many other little microcosms of your economic ideology that have existed in other countries. Why waste your time here? You're going to look back at your life and wish you had spent your time doing something else.

 

[sealybobo]

OSLO - When capitalism seemed on the verge of collapse last fall, Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s Socialist finance minister and a longtime free market skeptic, did more than crow.

As investors the world over sold in a panic, she bucked the tide, authorizing Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.

“The timing was not that bad,” Ms. Halvorsen said, smiling with satisfaction over the broad worldwide market rally that began in early March.

The global financial crisis has brought low the economies of just about every country on earth. But not Norway.

With a quirky contrariness as deeply etched in the national character as the fjords carved into its rugged landscape, Norway has thrived by going its own way. When others splurged, it saved. When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state.

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

NYT: Thriving Norway’s economics lesson - The New York Times- msnbc.com

Another socialist post. European countries have enjoyed CONSISTENT double-digit unemployment over the past 10-15 years. I pray to God socialism doesn't come here.

Steven Colbert made fun of you right wingers last night. You guys don't even know the difference between socialism and fascism.

Stop using words you don't understand.