Secret GPS device on vehicle? Government overstepping its bounds?

[Immanuel]

I am sure they need the warrants but as with everything sometimes that does not happen.

I mean exactly what i said. Tracking some people over others. Your run of the mill drug user, then no. Tracking a drug dealer, sure. Tracking someone with terrorists ties, sure. Tracking your average muslim, no.

I'm going to bed shortly, so I may not answer tonight, but I must disagree with you.

One, I got the impression from the article that warrants were not needed.

Two, Don't you think that innocent until proven guilty is an ideal that we here in America still want to live by?

Immie

My understanding is that warrants are needed to track. Warrants are needed to listen in on phones.

Yes, i believe in innocent until proven guilty. Why do you think they are being tracked or listened in on?

Night Immie

Why for no other reason than the fact that he has an Arabic sounding name of course.

The FBI has been using trackers for a very long time...and long before the patriot act.

But, I did not say that tracking began because of the Patriot Act. I said, that the Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republicans. When tracking began has nothing to do with that. President Bush's deliberate attempts to shred the Constitution were what drove me out of the party. The Patriot Act was one of those attempts.

Immie

So now you must hate those despicable Democrats and Obama, after all they have not only kept the Patriot act but sought to broaden Government powers. I guess you can not vote for anyone.

You don't know me very well do you?

I have despised the Democrats for much longer than I have despised the Republicans.

Last election was very difficult for me. I chose to vote third party because the only thing the two major parties offered us was SHIT.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I'm going to bed shortly, so I may not answer tonight, but I must disagree with you.

One, I got the impression from the article that warrants were not needed.

Two, Don't you think that innocent until proven guilty is an ideal that we here in America still want to live by?

Immie

My understanding is that warrants are needed to track. Warrants are needed to listen in on phones.

Yes, i believe in innocent until proven guilty. Why do you think they are being tracked or listened in on?

Night Immie

Courts disagree. In this story the 9th AGREED the FBI can track with OUT a warrant. The reasoning is that one does not have an expectation of privacy as to where they drive on public roads. And that is all a tracker can tell the cops, where you went or have been.

Some Courts disagree. This will end up before the Supreme Court and I suspect that they will rule that a warrant is NOT required.

I mean really, is a warrant required for a cop to tail someone? If the answer is no, then there is no reason one should be required for a tracking device.

I accept your reasoning and find your points to be reasonable.

I'll have to consider them a little bit more. I am still concerned about the abuse of this and had I found that device on my vehicle the FBI would have been fishing it out of the sewage system.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I for one say good job FBI. Has anyone on here even bothered to research the problem with this kids history? His family all left the USA to go to egypt where his father died, he has a best friend posting plans about an attack on extremist websites and he comes back from Egypt all on his lonesome for school? My ass. Egypt has schools. This bleeding heart crap is why we have just as many terrorist hiding amongst us as there are in the international community. Thank you FBI for looking out for us even when the kids don't want it. The FBI don't GPS track someone simply because their names are different. Surveillance like that costs a lot of money, they had concerns and the responsible thing to do was thoroughly check the situation out.

Will you feel the same way, when they start tracking your movements?

This is your first post sissyrennee, welcome to USMB.

My concern has nothing to do with this particular person. My concern has always been what happens when the government starts following people who do not agree with the current politically correct bullshit. For instance, I have strongly opposed the health care reform bill that passed earlier this year. I have also strongly opposed abortion. Suppose President Obama decides that everyone who opposes his HCR Bill is an enemy of the state. I realize that is a bit far fetched and not likely to happen in this case, but how long before some President oversteps those bounds?

What will we do then?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.

The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.

One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".

"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for GPS tracking.

The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

Well when the majority of the worlds terrorist are in fact muslims from Arabs countries I can understand why the FBI was checking this guy out.

But on the other hand, I thought Obamay going to stop this type of stuff? Yet you dont have a problem with it?

What? I don't have a problem with it? You truly are lost.

I do have a problem with it. Which is why I started the thread. Did you expect me to present my problems with it before I got other people's reply to my question?

Have I ever said Obama was going to put a stop to this? No, never and I did not and would not have voted for the man although I did not and would not have voted for McCain either. If I was forced to vote for one or the other, then I must admit, I would have chosen Obama over McCain, but only because I have for many, many years felt that McCain was a lying son of a bitch and a very poor politician. A war hero yes, but a piss poor liberal politician.

Immie

 

[rightwinger]

If the FBI has probable cause to put a tracking device on his car...let them get a warrant.

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

 

[Immanuel]

If the FBI has probable cause to put a tracking device on his car...let them get a warrant.

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

BS!

Those tracking devices can be used against me in a court of law. Like for instance, I get into an accident and I was doing 47 in a 45 MPH zone. Well, now, I am found guilty of causing the accident because I was doing 2 MPH over the speed limit and the other guy, who ran the stop sign... pronounced "roll sign" in Florida... didn't have a GPS device. So the accident was my fault not his.

I wonder... can I take the 5th in that case and claim that using that device is in effect forcing me to testify against myself?

Immie

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If the FBI has probable cause to put a tracking device on his car...let them get a warrant.

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

Lets just suppose for a second. What if George Bush was still president and we had a Republican controlled government would you be so quick to suggest this to happen?

 

[rightwinger]

If the FBI has probable cause to put a tracking device on his car...let them get a warrant.

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

Otherwise, we should all agree to have tracking devices on our cars....just in case

Lets just suppose for a second. What if George Bush was still president and we had a Republican controlled government would you be so quick to suggest this to happen?

Its an invasion of privacy regardless of who is president.

Why stop at the FBI?

Let the local police put GPS in our cars and bill us every time we go over the speed limit. make an illegal left turn? Your GPS can turn you in

Great way to generate money....but against the 4th amendment

 

[Ame®icano]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News



The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

The FBI has been using trackers for a very long time...and long before the patriot act.

But, I did not say that tracking began because of the Patriot Act. I said, that the Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republicans. When tracking began has nothing to do with that. President Bush's deliberate attempts to shred the Constitution were what drove me out of the party. The Patriot Act was one of those attempts.

Immie

How come that the Patriot Act didn't turn you against Democrats after they extended it. Lame excuse Immie.

 

[Ame®icano]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.

The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.

One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".

"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for GPS tracking.

The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

The FBI has been using trackers for a very long time...and long before the patriot act.

Before the Patriot Act they needed a warrant.

 

[syrenn]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News



The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

The FBI has been using trackers for a very long time...and long before the patriot act.

Before the Patriot Act they needed a warrant.

Yes, i know what was required.

 

[Immanuel]

The FBI has been using trackers for a very long time...and long before the patriot act.

But, I did not say that tracking began because of the Patriot Act. I said, that the Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republicans. When tracking began has nothing to do with that. President Bush's deliberate attempts to shred the Constitution were what drove me out of the party. The Patriot Act was one of those attempts.

Immie

How come that the Patriot Act didn't turn you against Democrats after they extended it. Lame excuse Immie.

Maybe because I have been against the Democrats for... God, I can't say how long it has been since I approved of a Democrat.

I hated Clinton when he took office. After he left, I realized he was not AS BAD as I thought he would be, but I have not supported a Democrat since I suppose Carter.

Immie

 

[Sheldon]

Tracking a vehicle via GPS is different than an undercover cruiser tailing a vehicle. Implanting a GPS tracking device in a vehicle represents an extended campaign of collecting data. Because it's not just following the suspect once or twice, but following their every move over an extended period of time--week, or even months--then a warrant should be required to collect that much information that easily.

Because technology is blurring the line between public (social) and private life, and making government surveillance easier, I want future rulings on the Fourth to favor citizens by loosening the definition of a reasonable expectation to privacy. This story is a breach of that expectation, imo. But I think the Court's precedents on the fourth will probably have them ruling this practice Constitutional.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Tracking a vehicle via GPS is different than an undercover cruiser tailing a vehicle. Implanting a GPS tracking device in a vehicle represents an extended campaign of collecting data. Because it's not just following the suspect once or twice, but following their every move over an extended period of time--week, or even months--then a warrant should be required to collect that much information that easily.

Because technology is blurring the line between public (social) and private life, and making government surveillance easier, I want future rulings on the Fourth to favor citizens by loosening the definition of a reasonable expectation to privacy. This story is a breach of that expectation, imo. But I think the Court's precedents on the fourth will probably have them ruling this practice Constitutional.

There is no "right to privacy" That was fabricated by the Supreme Court. Putting a tracking device on a vehicle does not violate the 4th Amendment either, since the police are free to follow someone 24 hours a day 7 days a week for as long as they want WITHOUT a warrant. Hell private citizens are free to follow someone also.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Tracking a vehicle via GPS is different than an undercover cruiser tailing a vehicle. Implanting a GPS tracking device in a vehicle represents an extended campaign of collecting data. Because it's not just following the suspect once or twice, but following their every move over an extended period of time--week, or even months--then a warrant should be required to collect that much information that easily.

Because technology is blurring the line between public (social) and private life, and making government surveillance easier, I want future rulings on the Fourth to favor citizens by loosening the definition of a reasonable expectation to privacy. This story is a breach of that expectation, imo. But I think the Court's precedents on the fourth will probably have them ruling this practice Constitutional.

There is no "right to privacy" That was fabricated by the Supreme Court. Putting a tracking device on a vehicle does not violate the 4th Amendment either, since the police are free to follow someone 24 hours a day 7 days a week for as long as they want WITHOUT a warrant. Hell private citizens are free to follow someone also.

Actually sgt that is incorrect. Back when I was a police officer, I worked with another officer that had followed a vehicle for about two miles. Just to see if they would break the law. Sure enough that did a infraction, he pulled them, and charged them for going left of center, then charged them for not wearing their seat belt, that was back in the day when people could not be stop just for not wearing their seat belt, an officer had to have a reason to do that. Anyway the person charged fought the ticket and in court the person told the judge how long the officer had follow them. The judge dismissed both tickets.

 

[Sheldon]

Tracking a vehicle via GPS is different than an undercover cruiser tailing a vehicle. Implanting a GPS tracking device in a vehicle represents an extended campaign of collecting data. Because it's not just following the suspect once or twice, but following their every move over an extended period of time--week, or even months--then a warrant should be required to collect that much information that easily.

Because technology is blurring the line between public (social) and private life, and making government surveillance easier, I want future rulings on the Fourth to favor citizens by loosening the definition of a reasonable expectation to privacy. This story is a breach of that expectation, imo. But I think the Court's precedents on the fourth will probably have them ruling this practice Constitutional.

There is no "right to privacy" That was fabricated by the Supreme Court. Putting a tracking device on a vehicle does not violate the 4th Amendment either, since the police are free to follow someone 24 hours a day 7 days a week for as long as they want WITHOUT a warrant. Hell private citizens are free to follow someone also.

I know there's not an explicit right to privacy stated in the Constitution. It's not so much a fabrication as it is a logical conclusion from the Fourth. Why else would the founding fathers require a warrant, if they didn't place some value on citizens' privacy from the government? I think it's an important limitation on the government.

The last sentence in your post... I think stalking is a crime.

 

[blastoff]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.

The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.

One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".

"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for GPS tracking.

The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

Assume you've also turned against the Democratic Party for their overwhelming support of the Act.

 

[Immanuel]

Oil change reignites debate over GPS trackers - Yahoo! News

SAN FRANCISCO – Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.

The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.

One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".

"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for GPS tracking.

The USA Patriot Act was one of the things that turned me against the Republican Party. It is things like the above story that have made me feel like we no longer live in a land governed by a government, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

How do you all feel about this particular case? Does the fact that the student (I should identify him as "the victim") has an Arabic sounding name and is apparently Arabic make a difference to you?

Immie

Assume you've also turned against the Democratic Party for their overwhelming support of the Act.

You should know me well enough to know that I have never been a supporter of the Democratic Party at least not for the nearly ten years I have been posting on websites such as this one. I am amazed at the three or four people that have said this very thing in this thread!

When have I ever been a supporter of the Democrats, people!!!

Immie