Second Great Depression Looming?

[loosecannon]

We would never had had the Housing Bubble without cheap credit. All bubbles are a function of cheap credit to some extent.

Ok that is TRUE and a good explanation.

But reread your previous posts, it is still a complete non sequitur.

The Bush administration bears some responsibility for that - just as the Obama administration bears some responsibility for it today - but the primary culprit was the Fed.

How do you know that the president dictates to the fed?

I tend to believe that until Bernanke took the chair the Fed was like J Edgar Hoover.

 

[loosecannon]

So a company with declining sales that gets a tax cut will hire more people, but a company with sales going through the roof won't hire because their taxes went up.
BRILLIANT

exactly. Taxes have far less to do with it that a half dozen other variables.

 

[Avorysuds]

At least now we know the source of the problem. Edthecynic has no education.

Maybe we can just loan him a really smart cat.

So a company with declining sales that gets a tax cut will hire more people, but a company with sales going through the roof won't hire because their taxes went up.
BRILLIANT

Dang these know-it-all CON$ are STUPID!

It would depend on what you mean by declining sales by figuring out why you are having the drop. It could be because you don’t have enough employees and therefore are not competitive to another business that has expanded in your market.

If you are talking about the state of our economy today there are a few things that need to be done. Your idea of payroll taxes does not sound bad but in a time when the business or company is losing profits yes, tax cuts to the company would allow them to hold on to employees as well as invest and diversify their company.

Just because sales go down does not mean you need to fire employees.

While other companies fail, even in this sliding economy, another company has the opportunity to expand and pick up the productive employees in that field due to less competition. Now tax cuts would be a pretty nice incentive where as tax hikes (as are looking to be the future) would have a pretty profound impact on a company wanting to take that risk.

In the end you have less people employed and partially due to the tax increase’s VS tax cuts, payroll and or otherwise.

BTW, wtf is with your goofy ass calling every motherfucker that plays you like a fool a CON$?

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, Obama is doing everything Hoover and FDR did. Why on earth would we have another great depression?

 

[edthecynic]

Maybe we can just loan him a really smart cat.

So a company with declining sales that gets a tax cut will hire more people, but a company with sales going through the roof won't hire because their taxes went up.
BRILLIANT

Dang these know-it-all CON$ are STUPID!

It would depend on what you mean by declining sales by figuring out why you are having the drop. It could be because you don’t have enough employees and therefore are not competitive to another business that has expanded in your market.

Dang, you have outdone you last post.

Sales are declining because there are less people buying your products or services. People must be buying less because you don't have enough employees. BRILLIANT.
Wouldn't that "logic" mean that all businesses need do is hire more people than anyone they compete with and their sales will go through the roof whether their taxes go up or down?

 

[Londoner]

Wrong, FDR backed of and tried to bring the budget into balance in 1937 due to public outcry.

The economy tanked and he had to reup the new deal programs.

then they economy began recovering again.

Its history.

Now where in history is an example of no government invention doing what you claim it will?

Was there a debate within the FDR administation on whether to have a moderate Tax increase or go with th largest Tax Increase in History?

There are some today who want to sun set all of the Bush Tax Cuts, some who only want to penalize the rich and some who want to extend all of the tax cuts for anywhere from one year to pemanent.

"No government intervention" is not an option in this economy. It is only a matter of how big the intevention will be and form it will take.

Since every decision he has made so far has made things worse, I'd be tempted to find out what the Big 0 wants to do and then do the opposite. Whatever that is, it couldnt be worse than than recent history.

The American economy depends on vigorous middle class consumption.

Said consumption, during the postwar years, was built on something solid: manufacturing jobs. [Study the great postwar suburban expansion. The economic activity was beyond belief. The baby boom generation was entering their peak earning and spending years. It was truly an economic golden era. Problem is: the fundamentals which delivered the prosperity went away, partly because of historical conditions and partly to make a smaller group of Americans extremely wealthy. Read on]

Starting in the 70s, the U.S. began to lose the golden goose: solid manufacturing jobs [Japan and Germany re-industrialized, thus eroding American manufacturing dominance]. With less money coming in, Big Money sent Reagan to Washington to restore corporate profits to the levels achieved in the 50s and 60s. Thus began his war on labor. This was a comprehensive strategy designed to relieve corporations of their government imposed obligation to the middle class. Therefore, Reagan embarked on a war against unions, as well as allowing corporations to shop the globe for cheaper labor (-Reagan drew up the blueprints for NAFTA; Bush added to it, and Clinton drove it home.)

The point was to create a global system where capital could flow to the cheapest resources and labor markets. The Pentagon would "base" the globe in order to protect vital supply chains in unstable regions, the middle east being the most well known. Go into any Walmart and read where the products are made. You will see the fruits of the global economy AKA cheap 3rd world labor AKA goodbye American middle class).

So ... what did America do when it lost its solid job base AKA the engine of middle class consumption. It turned to credit and bubbles. Starting with Reagan, the middle class was increasingly sustained by reckless borrowing. The credit industrial complex was born. The circulation of Master Cards and Visas exploded. Here we also see the growth of casino capitalism and speculative finance: profit by fiat, which became necessary because American no longer made anything. [What choice did Reagan have? When the money didn't trickle down into real jobs and solid investments, he had to sustain the economy with something. No politician can get elected without promising the middle class the world on a string]

Of course, you know how the story ends. Eventually, you run out of credit ...and you experience a terrible contraction. Welcome to it. It's been a long time coming. Clinton avoided it with the tech bubble; Bush avoided it with the housing bubble. Obama needs a bubble, but there are no fake stimuli left. America even hawked its houses. There is nothing left.

Obama's real mistake was that he did what all American presidents do: he promised them prosperity when he should have warned them of the deep sacrifices that lie ahead. He should have told America that her 30 year credit orgy was over . . . and the hangover is going to be longer and harder than anyone realizes. Of course, you can't get elected by being honest.

 

[Charles_Main]

Wrong, FDR backed of and tried to bring the budget into balance in 1937 due to public outcry.

The economy tanked and he had to reup the new deal programs.

then they economy began recovering again.

Its history.

Now where in history is an example of no government invention doing what you claim it will?

You still get the most Ironic Name award. You clearly Know NOTHING at all about the truth.

We did not recover AT ALL from the depression until the onset of War and the massive Government spending on PRIVATE sector goods that came with it.

Social Programs and Shovel Ready jobs DID NOT save us from the Depression. WWII did.

 

[edthecynic]

Wrong, FDR backed of and tried to bring the budget into balance in 1937 due to public outcry.

The economy tanked and he had to reup the new deal programs.

then they economy began recovering again.

Its history.

Now where in history is an example of no government invention doing what you claim it will?

You still get the most Ironic Name award. You clearly Know NOTHING at all about the truth.

We did not recover AT ALL from the depression until the onset of War and the massive Government spending on PRIVATE sector goods that came with it.

Social Programs and Shovel Ready jobs DID NOT save us from the Depression. WWII did.

You said a mouthful!

 

[Charles_Main]

Wrong, FDR backed of and tried to bring the budget into balance in 1937 due to public outcry.

The economy tanked and he had to reup the new deal programs.

then they economy began recovering again.

Its history.

Now where in history is an example of no government invention doing what you claim it will?

You still get the most Ironic Name award. You clearly Know NOTHING at all about the truth.

We did not recover AT ALL from the depression until the onset of War and the massive Government spending on PRIVATE sector goods that came with it.

Social Programs and Shovel Ready jobs DID NOT save us from the Depression. WWII did.

You said a mouthful!

I like how you highlight the part where I say Massive government spending, and IGNORE the part where I say it was on PRIVATE SECTOR GOODS.

The Spending we are doing now is not on Private sector goods and that is why we are not seeing Private sector growth.

The mechanism that spurred the growth needed to get out of the Depression was not Social Programs, or Spending on Building projects. It was spending Billions on Planes and Jeeps, and guns and Bombs, made by Private sector companies. That is the kind of spending that can stimulate an economy.

Not Billions to Bail out Failing Medicare Budgets and Infrastructure spending. That kind of Spending might give some people temporary jobs but it does not come close to creating the Real jobs that spending on Private sector goods can.

 

[edthecynic]

You still get the most Ironic Name award. You clearly Know NOTHING at all about the truth.

We did not recover AT ALL from the depression until the onset of War and the massive Government spending on PRIVATE sector goods that came with it.

Social Programs and Shovel Ready jobs DID NOT save us from the Depression. WWII did.

You said a mouthful!

I like how you highlight the part where I say Massive government spending, and IGNORE the part where I say it was on PRIVATE SECTOR GOODS.

The Spending we are doing now is not on Private sector goods and that is why we are not seeing Private sector growth.

The mechanism that spurred the growth needed to get out of the Depression was not Social Programs, or Spending on Building projects. It was spending Billions on Planes and Jeeps, and guns and Bombs, made by Private sector companies. That is the kind of spending that can stimulate an economy.

Not Billions to Bail out Failing Medicare Budgets and Infrastructure spending. That kind of Spending might give some people temporary jobs but it does not come close to creating the Real jobs that spending on Private sector goods can.

I didn't "ignore" anything, I just didn't highlight the rest because my point is it was MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING and not MASSIVE TAX CUTS that got us out of the Great Depression.
Get it?

 

[saveliberty]

Looks to be like the massive government spending was to prop up government, not the private sector. Bailing out teachers and bureaucrats is not helping private sector goods or services. It is a fail.

 

[johnrocks]

I don't see how people can say that war got us out of the Depression without acknowledging domestic public works projects , it would seem to be consistent to acknowledge both or reject both but just one seems partisan to me.

Personally, I don't think we fully recovered until AFTER the war was over, the men returned to the private sector, the baby boom began as well as demand for so many goods and services, couple that with Europe and Japan being in ruins; we were one of the few nations left with a manufacturing base; and the recovery began on a massive scale, the New Deal and War just prolonged our misery, it took free market capitalism to again bring us joy and comfort.

 

[Intense]

Looks to be like the massive government spending was to prop up government, not the private sector. Bailing out teachers and bureaucrats is not helping private sector goods or services. It is a fail.

Yeah, you nailed it. Somebody has to pay for those contract benefit and salary increases. What is the concern about the GNP when compared to the Retirement Portfolios of the More Than Equal Class of Government and Union Workers????? We should feel honored to lick their boots, right????? You they would have us believe. So they indoctrinate our children.

 

[Intense]

You said a mouthful!

I like how you highlight the part where I say Massive government spending, and IGNORE the part where I say it was on PRIVATE SECTOR GOODS.

The Spending we are doing now is not on Private sector goods and that is why we are not seeing Private sector growth.

The mechanism that spurred the growth needed to get out of the Depression was not Social Programs, or Spending on Building projects. It was spending Billions on Planes and Jeeps, and guns and Bombs, made by Private sector companies. That is the kind of spending that can stimulate an economy.

Not Billions to Bail out Failing Medicare Budgets and Infrastructure spending. That kind of Spending might give some people temporary jobs but it does not come close to creating the Real jobs that spending on Private sector goods can.

I didn't "ignore" anything, I just didn't highlight the rest because my point is it was MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING and not MASSIVE TAX CUTS that got us out of the Great Depression.
Get it?

Roosevelt, the Progressive Socialist, at least built infrastructure. What has Obama built?????

Roosevelt the Progressive at least built equity on what he invested, what has Obama built in equity?????

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Roosevelt hurt the poor by artificially increasing market costs for food and manufactured goods, making them most un-affordable to the people that were most vulnerable. He did this to protect Union interests, not National interests. That, he and Obama share.

 

[Avorysuds]

So a company with declining sales that gets a tax cut will hire more people, but a company with sales going through the roof won't hire because their taxes went up.
BRILLIANT

Dang these know-it-all CON$ are STUPID!

It would depend on what you mean by declining sales by figuring out why you are having the drop. It could be because you don’t have enough employees and therefore are not competitive to another business that has expanded in your market.

Dang, you have outdone you last post.

Sales are declining because there are less people buying your products or services. People must be buying less because you don't have enough employees. BRILLIANT.
Wouldn't that "logic" mean that all businesses need do is hire more people than anyone they compete with and their sales will go through the roof whether their taxes go up or down?

Well obviously your sales would be going down because payroll taxes are too high...

 

[skookerasbil]

Heres all you have to know.....................

Rasmussen had Obama at a 57% DISAPPROVE yesterday..........the highest to date. Gallup #'s are very similar = the majority know this guy is a fcukk up!! And maybe 3 economists out of every 100 think things are going to get significantly better. Unlike the k00ks, I always tend to go with the odds!!!

 

[Avorysuds]

You said a mouthful!

I like how you highlight the part where I say Massive government spending, and IGNORE the part where I say it was on PRIVATE SECTOR GOODS.

The Spending we are doing now is not on Private sector goods and that is why we are not seeing Private sector growth.

The mechanism that spurred the growth needed to get out of the Depression was not Social Programs, or Spending on Building projects. It was spending Billions on Planes and Jeeps, and guns and Bombs, made by Private sector companies. That is the kind of spending that can stimulate an economy.

Not Billions to Bail out Failing Medicare Budgets and Infrastructure spending. That kind of Spending might give some people temporary jobs but it does not come close to creating the Real jobs that spending on Private sector goods can.

I didn't "ignore" anything, I just didn't highlight the rest because my point is it was MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING and not MASSIVE TAX CUTS that got us out of the Great Depression.
Get it?

And here I thought It was most of the world being blown up and needing to be rebuilt when America was still in perfect shape that caused such a massive boom in the privet sector in the US.

The size of Government didn't matter too much because the demand for goods was at a world history high. Not to mention that right before the war a lot of that Government spending (programs to help the economy that only made it worse) were found unconstitutional and repealed.

 

[lizzie]

I'm not convinced that it is still possible for the US to suffer another Great Depression. Severe recessions, yes...but nothing like the 1930's.

I'm convinced that it's very possible, and likely probable at the point in the future when we absolutely cannot sustain all the debts and government cost that we are currently putting ourselves at risk for.