Seattle is Hot - But Not That Hot...

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Sinatra, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Sinatra
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    Sinatra Senior Member

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    Whew! The Northwest is finally getting some legit summer weather! Even some record breaking heat - of course, that might have the doom n gloom global warmers dancing a jig and pointing their collective fingers to the heat wave as a sign of...global warming.

    Some perspective though quickly dismisses any such claim.

    From Jan 1, 2009, to July 30, 2009, the average mean temperature for Seattle was 52 Degrees.

    Go back 10 years and this reflects one degree warmer than the 1999 average of 51 degrees. Holy smokes, global warming is surely upon us!

    Ah but wait - the temperature average for Seattle 20 years ago was identical to that of 2009 - no warming??? What the huh????

    Turn back the clock to 30 years ago and we see the Seattle temp average was again, 51 degrees - one degree warmer than the 2009 average. OK - that is better! Now we are back on the global warming train! Especially since the mean temperature for 1960 was also 51 degrees - YES, we have global warming folks!

    Alas, it is not to be though...take the record data back another ten years to 1959. Now we see a mean temperature average that of 54 degrees - far greater than the temperature average of 2009. SAY WHAT???? Seattle was warmer on average in 1959 than 2009?? As a matter of fact, it was.

    And if we go back another 10 years to 1949, guess what? Seattle was warmer then as well - by a full degree over 2009.

    So much for global warming in Seattle....
     
  2. Caligirl
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    Caligirl Oh yes it is too!

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    I would have thought ocean currents affect climate in Seattle, and we all know that currents are predicted to change with climate. Maybe the warm air that normally comes to you from the tropics isn't making it this year.
     
  3. k2skier
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    k2skier Senior Member

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    sinatra, am radio will rot your mind
     
  4. elvis
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    elvis BANNED Supporting Member

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    so will al whore's movie.
     
  5. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Sinatra?

    You're an idiot if you imagine that any specific wealth condition (be it hot or cold) on one spot on the earth proves anything one way or the other.
     
  6. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    it is not a few hot days, or a few cold days that are indicators of a changing climate. Rather, it is evidence such as this;

    North Cascade Glaciers


    Mauri S. Pelto, Director Founded 1983
    Nichols College, Dudley, MA mspelto@nichols.edu


    Mass Balance
    Mass balance Data
    Ice Worms
    Google earth Distribution map file.
    Snowpack Changes: Snowpack-Precipitation Ratio Terminus Behavior
    Google Earth Tour of Monitored Glaciers
    Terminus Data Set Glacier Runoff
    Glacier runoff charts
    Updated 5/18/09

    PROLOGUE
    The North Cascades rugged, cold, gray cloaked peaks, then snowy summits shine forth on the occasional sunny day. Despite having the largest concentration of glaciers in the lower 48 states, no North Cascade glacier can be reached without significant effort. In Alaska, Europe's Alps or Canada's Rocky Mountains a number of glaciers can be reached by road or ski lift. Driving on any of the three highways that cross the North Cascades only occasional glimpses of a glacier are obtained. In contrast, standing upon a North Cascade peak a sea of snow-covered summits dominates your view. North Cascade glaciers are a world apart, remote yet vital to us.

    The North Cascades of Washington extend from Snoqualmie Pass to the Canadian Border and in 1980 contained 700 glaciers. Today this number is dwindling. North Cascade glaciers attract our attention because of their beauty, power, and inaccessibility. But more importantly these glaciers store water. Lots of water, as much water as all of the states' lakes, rivers and reservoirs combined. They are natural reservoirs and provide 25% of the North Cascade regions total summer water supply. During the dry months of June-September North Cascade glaciers release approximately 230 billion gallons of water each year. Today this water is fully utilized for irrigation, salmon fisheries, and power generation.

    All too often we take our natural resources for granted. We plan on 230 billion gallons of glacier runoff each summer. From 1944 to 1976 this was a good bet. Today, after several decades of stability North Cascade glacier's are in rapid retreat. Annual runoff is determined by annual precipitation for the most part. However, the timing is altered by the existence of glaciers. A glacier retains snowpack in the spring and early summer when streamflow is high and releases meltwater later in the summer when others sources of water are diminishing. Thus, glacier retreat raises spring snowmelt season flows and reduces low late summer flows. This is important for fall salmon runs and for later summer irrigation and hydropower demands.

    Three lines of evidence indicate that most North Cascade glaciers are currently in a state of disequilibrium. The mean cumulative annual balance for the 1984-2008 period is -12.4 m w.e, which represents a net loss of ice thickness exceeding 14 m. This is a significant loss for glaciers that average 30-50 m in thickness, representing 20-40% of their entire volume lost in two decades.
     
  7. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    First, that "one spot doesn't prove anything" bullshit is bullshit. If the global weather patterns do change then even in those "one spots" the weather would change, so yeah it does make a difference.

    Ice melting ... back on that lame argument. No need to readdress it.

    Fact is, hoaxers (like Chris) have no proof, no real evidence, only circumstantial data that is easily altered to fool small minds.
     
  8. Sinatra
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    Sinatra Senior Member

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    Thank you - and thus the point of this thread. Chris, like clockwork, posts location-specific examples of warm days in summer as proof of "global warming". I in turn show year to year trend data that completely dismisses that ridiculous claim by those such as Chris.

    And as earlier threads have shown, Seattle is not the only one to show decades old year to year data showing little or no warming - and in many cases, actual cooling - locations from New York, Chicago, Miami, Los Angeles, etc.

    Global Warming?

    Hah!
     
  9. Baruch Menachem
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    Baruch Menachem '

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    Well, sort of... Seattle is on Puget sound, a part of the ocean surrounded by land on three sides. It is about 80 miles inland from the rest of the coast line, and is just a bit bigger than the Great Salt Lake, but there are huge islands in the middle which probably make the actual amount of water there a bit less.

    So, it is on the ocean, sort of, in the same way as Vancouver BC is part of the North American land mass.

    And the ocean currents we get here in the North West come in from Alaska. The great convection runs clockwise along the coast.

    Sinatra's main point is that mean temperatures vary a lot short term, but not so much long term. We really arent' seeing that much of an increase.
     
  10. Sinatra
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    Sinatra Senior Member

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    You got it.
     

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