Sean Stone, Converts to Islam

[Jos]

Another name for Mecca, or the wilderness and mountains surrounding it, according to Arab and Islamic tradition, is Faran or Pharan, referring to the Desert of Paran mentioned in the Old Testament.[20] Arab and Islamic tradition holds that the wilderness of Paran, broadly speaking, is the Hijaz and the site where Ishmael settled was Mecca.[20] Yaqut al-Hamawi, the 12th century Syrian geographer, writes that Faran is "an arabized Hebrew word. One of the names of Mecca mentioned in the Torah."[21] There is a Tal Faran ("Hill of Faran") on the outskirts of Mecca.

Mecca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[theHawk]

So in other words; you want a Muslim to teach you what's in your Christian Bible?

Thought so, you can't even back up your claim.

Open your Bible and spend some time with it.

I would find it very demeaning if I had to have a Christian teach me the Quran.

But obviously you have No problem with a Muslim teaching you the Bible.

Thanks for proving you can't back you claim up Sunni. It is not in the Bible.

You just can't handle the fact that Mecca was purely a pagan site, and Muhammed simply highjacked the same rituals and place of worship and even the same name of their god and made the rest up.

 

[Sunni Man]

More clues:

Abrahams wife Hagar gave birth to his first son Ishmael.

By being his first son Ishmael received a double blessing according to Jewish Law.

 

[theHawk]

More clues:

Abrahams wife Hagar gave birth to his first son Ishmael.

By being his first son Ishmael received a double blessing according to Jewish Law.

I am well aware of the story of Ishmael.

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was the slave of his wife Sarai. You're lying again.

 

[Sunni Man]

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was the slave of his wife Sarai. You're lying again. :

Go pick up your KJV Bible.

Wipe the dust off of it.

Now open it up and read Genesis 16:3

"And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife"


Sad that I continually have to teach Christians what their Bible really says.

But such is my lot in life.

 

[theHawk]

Hagar was not Abraham's wife, she was the slave of his wife Sarai. You're lying again. :

Go pick up your KJV Bible.

Wipe the dust off of it.

Now open it up and read Genesis 16:3

"And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife"


Sad that I continually have to teach Christians what their Bible really says.

But such is my lot in life.

Just because she was offered to be a wife, doesn't mean he married her. He slept with her, and got her preggers.

Later when an angel appeared to Hagar, he addressed her as Sarai's slave, not as wife of Abraham(Gen 16:8). And its no secret that the child Ishmael was treated as a bastard child and was sent off. Strange to do that to a legitamate child.

Still waiting to see the proof of Abraham building Mecca.

 

[Sunni Man]

Just because she was offered to be a wife, doesn't mean he married her. He slept with her, and got her preggers.

Later when an angel appeared to Hagar, he addressed her as Sarai's slave, not as wife of Abraham(Gen 16:8). And its no secret that the child Ishmael was treated as a bastard child and was sent off. Strange to do that to a legitamate child.

So when it says he took her as a wife. You are saying that it doesn't say she was his wife?

And you are saying that God had Abraham father a bastard child?

That Ishmael was illegitimate and not a son?

Genesis 17:23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him.

 

[theHawk]

Just because she was offered to be a wife, doesn't mean he married her. He slept with her, and got her preggers.

Later when an angel appeared to Hagar, he addressed her as Sarai's slave, not as wife of Abraham(Gen 16:8). And its no secret that the child Ishmael was treated as a bastard child and was sent off. Strange to do that to a legitamate child.

So when it says he took her as a wife. You are saying that it doesn't say she was his wife?

And you are saying that God had Abraham father a bastard child?

That Ishmael was illegitimate and not a son?

Genesis 17:23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him.

It doesn't say the he took her as his wife. Just that he slept with her.

Not denying it was Abraham's son:

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:

“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.”

Also:
8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”

God refers to her as "Your slave woman", not wife.


Now, where is this 'proof' in the Bible that Abraham built the temple in Mecca?

 

[FactFinder]

Sean Stone, Converts to Islam

That information and ~ 3 bucks will get me a cup of coffee.

 

[Sunni Man]

God made an everlasting Covenant between Abraham and his descendants. This includes both Isaac and Ishmael. The sign for the covenant was to be circumcision. Both Jews and Muslims practice circumcision to this day. Because both are covered under Abrahams covenant.

The Jews try to claim Abraham only belongs to them.

But he belongs just as much to the Muslims as the Jews.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[Jroc]

I hate to really get into this, but both muslims and Christians change the scripture a bit. The divine covenant was with Isaac, not Ismael although Ismael whom the Arabs are descended from where promised a great Nation, which had been fulfilled With the rised of islam, that time has passed. The Jews are still waiting for their time, the time when the Messiah will come...I'll quote my friend "it comes"

G‑d then informs Abraham that, in one year’s time, he and Sarah will have a son, Isaac. Abraham was nearing his hundredth year at the time, and Sarah was approaching the age of ninety; the two had been married for 75 childless years, and Sarah was physically incapable of having children. Abraham already had a son, Ishmael, born thirteen years earlier, after Sarah had urged him to marry her maidservant Hagar, so that he could father a child through her.

Abraham’s reaction to the divine promise was to proclaim, “If only Ishmael would live before You!” Abraham seems to be saying that he would be perfectly happy to see Ishmael as his heir—as the one who continues his life’s work and perpetuates his special relationship with G‑d.

G‑d rejects Abraham’s proposal. He reassures him that Ishmael will become a great people, “but my covenant I shall establish with Isaac.” Only Isaac, the son you will have with Sarah, can be your true heir, and only Isaac can father the people with whom I will enter into a covenant as my “kingdom of priests and holy nation.”

This is more than a technical choice. G‑d’s insistence on Isaac as the progenitor of His chosen people tells us something very fundamental about the nature of our relationship with Him.

For Ishmael and Isaac differed in two significant respects:

Ishmael came into the world by natural means, while Isaac’s birth was a supernatural event.
Ishmael was circumcised at the age of thirteen, the age of daat (awareness), whereas Isaac entered into the covenant of circumcision as an eight day-old infant—an age at which a person is not even aware of what is taking place, much less of its significance.
In other words, Ishmael represents a rational relationship with G‑d, one that is based upon a person’s nature and understanding. Isaac represents a supranatural, supra-rational bond.

Abraham discerned many positive qualities in Ishmael, and was prepared, and even desirous, to see him as his heir. Yet G‑d insisted that his covenant with Abraham be perpetuated specifically through Isaac and Isaac’s descendants—a people whose commitment to G‑d will transcend the natural and the rational

 

[JStone]

Does he get to beat his wife if she disobeys?

 

[JStone]

SUNNI DUNCE


Sunni Dunce, you're so dumb, it's no wonder muslims are the most fucked up losers in the history of the world known only for terrorism.

Simple math, beyond the scope of the average muslime moron, undermines your stupidity: Abraham existed at least 2500 years before your pedophile prophet muhammad was born and your wretched cult invented. It is well-known that the pedophile muhammad stole the Jewish and Christian prophets and patriarchs because he was a total fraud. This is why his own people in mecca kicked his hairy ass out of town forcing him to relocate to medina which was half-Jewish!

Do the math, dummy: Abraham lived ca. 2000-1800 BCE. The pedophile muhammad was born 570 CE. The islimic calendar begins 622 CE.

Did your pedophile muhammad travel back in time 2500 years to convert Abraham, fool?

The archaeological record provides physical extra-Biblical verification for the existence of the Jewish People 3000 years ago. There is no such record for the existence of an Arab people before islime 1400 years ago.

muslimes are stuck on stupid for 14 centuries which is why you will always be a loser in life

United States Founding Father President John Adams...

I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/Roots-America...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287960719&sr=8-1&tag=ff0d01-20

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books

 

[Sunni Man]

The covenant was made with Abraham "before" the birth of Isaac or Ishmael. So both are given the same blessings.

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And yes, Isaac was to be the Father of the so called, "Chosen People".

But the Chosen People kept breaking the covenant with God and worshiping idols.

Twice they were taken into slavery for hundreds of years and eventually freed; only to return back to immorality and idol worship.

Finally, God revoked the covenant after the Jews had broken it soo many times.

And the Jews lost their Chosen People status.

 

[Jroc]

The covenant was made with Abraham "before" the birth of Isaac or Ishmael. So both are given the same blessings.

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And yes, Isaac was to be the Father of the so called, "Chosen People".

But the Chosen People kept breaking the covenant with God and worshiping idols.

Twice they were taken into slavery for hundreds of years and eventually freed; only to return back to immorality and idol worship.

Finally, God revoked the covenant after the Jews had broken it soo many times.

And the Jews lost their Chosen People status.

Umm... Yeah ok. It doesn't really matter to me what you believe. G-d doesn't break covenants he has made with his people.

 

[Sunni Man]

Umm... Yeah ok. It doesn't really matter to me what you believe. G-d doesn't break covenants he has made with his people.

Actually, God didn't have to break the contract/covenant he made with the so called Chosen People.

The Jews broke it multiple times.

Thus making it null and void.

 

[theHawk]

The covenant was made with Abraham "before" the birth of Isaac or Ishmael. So both are given the same blessings.

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

And yes, Isaac was to be the Father of the so called, "Chosen People".

But the Chosen People kept breaking the covenant with God and worshiping idols.

Twice they were taken into slavery for hundreds of years and eventually freed; only to return back to immorality and idol worship.

Finally, God revoked the covenant after the Jews had broken it soo many times.

And the Jews lost their Chosen People status.

Arabs did a bang-up job of creating their own idols as well.

To this day they make their pilgramage to a pagan holy site, where the chief of the pagan gods Allah was being worshiped along with 360 other gods. Muhammed just came along and highjacked it and turned it into his own personal cult.

 

[JStone]

United States Founding Father President John Adams...

I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
Amazon.com: Roots Of American Order (9781882926992): Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: Books

Winston Churchill...

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir...id=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[JStone]

Ironic his surname is Stone given the muslime troglodytes continue to stone at the drop of a stone

muslimes are inferior underachievers who are known only for terrorism. Of 1.5 BILLION muslimes, just 2 muslimes have won Nobel Prizes for achievements in science and economics.

In stark contrast, of 13 million Jews, 186 Jews have won Nobel Prizes for advances in science and economics.

Moses Rules. Allah Sucks.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl76nw92AJc]Jews and Muslims-Nobel Prize List (Latest) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Two Thumbs]

Just another receiver who doen't know - according to HIS bible - that Mary was a fiance at 12 !!
In case the receiver want to reject something:
Supporting Prophet Muhammad website __Why did Prophet Muhammad Marry Aisha; the Young Girl

How old was the Virgin Mary when she got married


The Bible doesn't say. However, reading 'between the lines' we can come up with a likely age range.

We are told that Mary was a virgin at the time of her conception. In those days, once a girl began menstruating she became a woman in Jewish law (as did a boy at his Bar mitzvah around the age of 14) and would be expected to be married off to a young gentleman, not only for financial reasons, but so that the descendent line could be maintained (a very important part of Jewish culture in those days). Therefore, girls as young as 13 or 14 could marry, as, in those days, menstruation began, on average, a little later then than these days because of our modern lifestyle and better health.

Also in those days, life expectancy was much lower, a man or woman of 45 or so being regarded as old. We are told that Mary was present at the Cross during the crucifixion, (Joseph wasn't implying that he had already died) and that Jesus was 33 when he was crucified. We are also told that Mary went to live in John's (Jesus beloved disciple) house after the Crucifixion, implying that she was 'old' then and needed taking care of - possibly in her late 40s. Considering this evidence, this means that Mary was likely to have given birth to Jesus when she was no older than 15 or 16 - or, more likely, a couple of years younger. We are also told that Mary married Joseph during her pregnancy placing her marriage even further back.

Therefore, it is likely that Mary was around 13-15 during the time of her marriage, with her giving birth to Jesus from around 14 to 16 years of age



according to all the bullshit we hear, it's a sin for muslims to lie.

Must be hard defending taking a nine y/o child as a bride.