SCOTUS: states cannot ban same sex marriage

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by JakeStarkey, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. TheProgressivePatriot
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    TheProgressivePatriot Gold Member

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    Indefensible? Someone's on a crusade :) gay people (whom I don't hate so you can't use that old shtick against me-then again you probably will) have more people in every area of entertainment, and there not like black people in the 50's etc... There's a BIIIIIG difference in not serving a gay couple cause there gay (which is wrong) and not wanting to cater a gay EVENT.
    If your logic follows:
    Force Muslims to make a muhammad cake. Force Jews to make a Nazi cake. Force blacks to make a Segregation cake. Unless you just want to target Christians :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

    No I would not want to force Muslims to make a Muhammad cake. Force Jews to make a Nazi cake, blacks to make a Segregation cake. Nor would I want to force a Christian to make a Satan cake ( maybe devils food though) These that you describe are all inherently offensive. All that any business would have to do is have a policy that states that they will not include any symbols or language that a reasonable person would find objectionable. A reasonable person is not going to find a wedding cake offensive,

    This whole thing about targeting Christians is paranoid lunacy. Laws against discrimination apply to all faiths equally . The Muslim or anyone else who has a business is equally obligated to serve the public when offering goods and services. I presented my take on what religious freedom means and does not mean and I stand by it.
     
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  2. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Texas, with a couple of minor exceptions, is happily issuing licenses to everyone. So is every other state. This is over.

    The far right loonies, like Vigilante, have conceded.
     
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  3. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Gold Member

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    Just the Right being frivolous with the People's time and money under our form of Capitalism.
     
  4. JFish123
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    JFish123 VIP Member

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    No I would not want to force Muslims to make a Muhammad cake. Force Jews to make a Nazi cake, blacks to make a Segregation cake. Nor would I want to force a Christian to make a Satan cake ( maybe devils food though) These that you describe are all inherently offensive. All that any business would have to do is have a policy that states that they will not include any symbols or language that a reasonable person would find objectionable. A reasonable person is not going to find a wedding cake offensive,

    This whole thing about targeting Christians is paranoid lunacy. Laws against discrimination apply to all faiths equally . The Muslim or anyone else who has a business is equally obligated to serve the public when offering goods and services. I presented my take on what religious freedom means and does not mean and I stand by it.[/QUOTE]


    So you'd force a muslim to make a gay wedding cake too? People don't make cakes for a variety of reasons that can offend them. Many don't make cakes with genetalia on them or sexual scenes, they don't make cakes for a KKK wedding or gathering. They don't as a matter of conscience make cakes that would go against there beliefs.
    Now you said "they would not include any symbol or language that a REASONABLE person would find objectionable." But everyone has their own beliefs and what they find reasonable. A muslim wouldn't want to make a Muhammad cake because even though I don't think it's bad. Why? Because I'm not a muslim. It's a belief they have, like the belief gay marriage is wrong that most Christians have. You can't say you'll force one group to go against there "belief" and not another group the same. Because both are set on beliefs. It's illogical and hypocritical to do so and shows your bias against one group.
    Also, a Jehovahs Witness might not want to make a "Jesus is God" or a "God is a Trinity" as they find them as abominable sins from the devil even though I do not as I believe the opposite. So what people consider "reasonable" is all relative. I mean heck, someone could find the word "fat" offensive on a cake if Political Correctness went off the rails :)
    The point is any cake could be offensive to anyone. And should anyone be FORCED to make a cake that goes against there conscience or strongly held beliefs? No, they shouldn't. To make a cake for people who are gay is one thing (and anyone SHOULD make that cake), but that's not the issue.
    The issue is, whether someone should be forced to make a PARTICULAR cake for any EVENT or celebration they believe is wrong. You see, making a cake is one thing, but making a cake AND writing or decorating it for something you find wrong is another issue entirely but people like to confuse the two. And those who disagree are labeled bigots. It's a sad confused world out there my friend.
     
  5. JFish123
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    JFish123 VIP Member

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    So you'd force a muslim to make a gay wedding cake too? People don't make cakes for a variety of reasons that can offend them. Many don't make cakes with genetalia on them or sexual scenes, they don't make cakes for a KKK wedding or gathering. They don't as a matter of conscience make cakes that would go against there beliefs.
    Now you said "they would not include any symbol or language that a REASONABLE person would find objectionable." But everyone has their own beliefs and what they find reasonable. A muslim wouldn't want to make a Muhammad cake because even though I don't think it's bad. Why? Because I'm not a muslim. It's a belief they have, like the belief gay marriage is wrong that most Christians have. You can't say you'll force one group to go against there "belief" and not another group the same. Because both are set on beliefs. It's illogical and hypocritical to do so and shows your bias against one group.
    Also, a Jehovahs Witness might not want to make a "Jesus is God" or a "God is a Trinity" as they find them as abominable sins from the devil even though I do not as I believe the opposite. So what people consider "reasonable" is all relative. I mean heck, someone could find the word "fat" offensive on a cake if Political Correctness went off the rails :)
    The point is any cake could be offensive to anyone. And should anyone be FORCED to make a cake that goes against there conscience or strongly held beliefs? No, they shouldn't. To make a cake for people who are gay is one thing (and anyone SHOULD make that cake), but that's not the issue.
    The issue is, whether someone should be forced to make a PARTICULAR cake for any EVENT or celebration they believe is wrong. You see, making a cake is one thing, but making a cake AND writing or decorating it for something you find wrong is another issue entirely but people like to confuse the two. And those who disagree are labeled bigots. It's a sad confused world out there my friend.



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  6. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    JFish123 creates these long, rambling and inaccurate posts.

    Good grief.

    PA laws will guide these issues.
     
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  7. JFish123
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    JFish123 VIP Member

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    Rambling? You mean explaining common sense and Truth? Lol


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  8. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    You are rambling. PA laws will guide businesses on dealing with such issues. If there are no PA laws, then a business can post a clear sign in an easily visible place what it will and won't do within the limits of common community standards.
     
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  9. TheProgressivePatriot
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    TheProgressivePatriot Gold Member

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    Look, I will admit that this is a difficult and touchy area. I really don’t want anyone to be in a position where they have to do something or participate in something that they find offensive and contrary to their religion. I feel sorry for those who have been brainwashed into believing that their religion requires them to treat others badly

    I actually do respect religious freedom but to me that includes the freedom from religion-the idea that not only is every person free to practice their faith and live as they wish-but that no one else is forced to adhere to the tenants of another faith. That is what a service provider who, in the name of religious freedom does when they inconvenience, or worse humiliate someone.

    If you have a bakery or any business you have to serve everyone equally. It was only since the civil rights era that religious freedom was reinterpreted to mean the right to discriminate in the name of religion and now it’s happening again. I’m willing to bet that half or more of these people who don’t want to bake a “gay wedding cake” are full of shit when they invoke religion. They would cheerfully bake a cake for someone who had a child outside of marriage or who had been previously married. Religious freedom is easily abused and used as a cover for bigotry. And as I said before, if we allow people to discriminate against gays for religious purposes, then where does it end. They then have license to discriminate against anyone who they don’t approve of.

    You said that any cake should be offensive to someone. Well, sorry, but no one has a right to not be offended. They have a right to practice their faith and live accordingly. If they can’t do their job because of those beliefs, they need to find another job. They need to just get over it.

    And lastly, your invoking the specter of someone being forced to bake a Nazi or KKK cake is just fear mongering hyperbole. That is not going to happen. No one will be forced to provide symbols that universally recognized as offensive, nor will they be required to do anything pornographic as you alluded to. Racists and Fascists are not protected classes .
     
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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  10. ChrisL
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    ChrisL Diamond Member

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    No I would not want to force Muslims to make a Muhammad cake. Force Jews to make a Nazi cake, blacks to make a Segregation cake. Nor would I want to force a Christian to make a Satan cake ( maybe devils food though) These that you describe are all inherently offensive. All that any business would have to do is have a policy that states that they will not include any symbols or language that a reasonable person would find objectionable. A reasonable person is not going to find a wedding cake offensive,

    This whole thing about targeting Christians is paranoid lunacy. Laws against discrimination apply to all faiths equally . The Muslim or anyone else who has a business is equally obligated to serve the public when offering goods and services. I presented my take on what religious freedom means and does not mean and I stand by it.[/QUOTE]

    I see people are STILL completely misinterpreting the law here. One more time for them? It's not about your product, it is about access to your product. You cannot go into business to serve the public and then refuse to serve one or more portions of the public. The government doesn't recognize discrimination as a religious belief, custom or practice. :D Think MAYBE they will get it this time? Doubtful. Lol! ;)
     

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