Scientists Behaving Badly - More nails for the coffin of man-made global warming

[RDD_1210]

What evidence do we have that man made CO2 has significantly contributed to warming?

Old question, long since answered, irrelevant to the thread topic.

No, it has not been answered. Not at all. And, it is absolutely relevant to your post. A claim is not in a position to be refuted if there is no evidence for that claim in the first place.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence and data to support man made global warming. If you truly want to read up on the topic and see the data for yourself you can start here

Human and Natural Drivers of Climate Change - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM.1). The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3} "

"The understanding of anthropogenic warming and cooling influences on climate has improved since the TAR, leading to very high confidence[7] that the global average net effect of human activities since 1750 has been one of warming, with a radiative forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2 (see Figure SPM.2). {2.3, 6.5, 2.9} "

That site has a wealth of info that you can use to educate yourself if you actually want to form your own opinion.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Scientists Behaving Badly - National Review Online

Global-warming skeptics spend much of their time knocking down the fatuous warmist claim that the science is settled. According to the warmists, this singular piece of settled science is attested to by hundreds or thousands of highly credentialed scientists. In truth, virtually the entire warmist edifice is built around a small, tightly knit coterie of persons (one hesitates to refer to folks with so little respect for the scientific method as scientists) willing to falsify data and manipulate findings; or, to put it bluntly, to lie in order to push a political agenda not supported by empirical evidence. This is what made the original release of the Climategate e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia so valuable. They clearly identified the politicized core of climate watchers who were driving the entire warmist agenda. Following in their footsteps are all the other scientists who built their own research on top of the fraudulent data produced by the warmist core.

Last week over 5,000 new e-mails, already dubbed Climategate 2, were released. Anyone still desiring to contest the assertion that only a few persons controlled the entire warmist agenda will be brought up short by this note from one warmist protesting that his opinions were not getting the hearing they deserved: “It seems that a few people have a very strong say, and no matter how much talking goes on beforehand, the big decisions are made at the eleventh hour by a select core group.” Over the years this core group, led by Phil Jones at East Anglia and Michael Mann at Penn State, became so close that even those inclined toward more honest appraisals of the state of climate science were hesitant to rock the boat. As one warm-monger states: “I am not convinced that the ‘truth’ is always worth reaching if it is at the cost of damaged personal relationships.” Silly me, how many years have I wasted believing that the very point of science was to pursue the truth in the face of all obstacles. On the basis of this evidence the scientific method must be rewritten so as to state: “Science must be as objective as possible, unless it offends your friends.”

Unfortunately, from the very beginning, the core group at the heart of Climategate had no interest in “scientific truth.” As one states: “The trick may be to decide on the main message and use that to guide what’s included and what is left out.” In other words, let’s decide on a conclusion and then use only evidence that proves that point, discarding everything else. One scientist who seems to have been slightly troubled by these methods wrote: “I also think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it, which for all our sakes might not be too clever in the long run.” In another note to Phil Jones, this same scientist complained: “Observations do not show rising temperatures throughout the tropical troposphere unless you accept one single study and approach and discount a wealth of others. This is just downright dangerous. We need to communicate the uncertainty and be honest.”

Of course, nothing of the sort was done. As one e-mail states: “The figure you sent is very deceptive . . . there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model results by individual authors and by IPCC [the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change].” Too bad these so-called scientists felt they could tell the truth only to one another and not the public at large. Some of the other truths they shared only with one another are astounding. For instance, one writes: “I find myself in the strange position of being very skeptical of the quality of all present reconstructions, yet sounding like a pro greenhouse zealot here!” So, despite having no confidence in any of the models the IPCC was using in its reports, this scientist was ready to support the IPCC findings to the hilt. And why didn’t he believe the models? Easy: They were designed to tell the big lie. For example, when confronted with the problem that if all the data were included, the warming disappeared, Phil Jones turned to a novel method: He used only “[time] periods that showed warming.”

At one point, Jones admits that the “basic problem is that all of the models are wrong.” Of course, there is a simple reason for this. When the models do not show what the warmists want them to show, they simply apply “some tuning.” One scientist was worried enough about this “tuning” to write that he “doubt[ed] the modeling world will be able to get away with this much longer.” In this case, “tuning” means changing the model until it tells you what you want it to. When it became impossible to torture the models any further without making their uselessness apparent to all, the warmists resorted to changing the data.

The most efficient method of corrupting the models was to use data only from time periods when there was warming and discard others, as Jones admits to doing. This method helped one scientist reduce the cooling in the northern hemisphere between 1940 and 1970, so that he did not have to make up an excuse blaming it on sulphates, which could not be proven. Another complains that no matter how much he fiddles with the data, it is “very difficult to make the Medieval Warming Period go away.” Solving this problem in the modern era was much easier: The warmists merely changed the temperature readings for much of the 20th century and threw away the original data.

Why? One e-mail clearly explains what was at stake: ”I can’t overstate the HUGE amount of political interest in the project as a message that the Government can give on climate change to help them tell their story. They want the story to be a very strong one and don’t want to be made to look foolish.” In other words, all the scientific lying was a result of scientists trying to give their political masters a major issue they could use to control people’s lives and justify wasting trillions of dollars. Success, as one warmist stated, rested on somehow convincing the public that “limate change is extremely complicated, BUT to accept the dominant view that people are affecting it, and that impacts produces risk that needs careful and urgent attention.” In other words, climate science is too complex for the simpleton voters, who must be made to believe that unless we wreck the global economy the planet will bake. As Michael Mann says in one e-mail: “the important thing is to make sure they’re losing the PR battle.” Moving even further away from their original calling as scientists, the warmists spend considerable time discussing the tactics of convincing the masses that global warming should be a major concern. For instance, one states: “Having established scale and urgency, the political challenge is then to turn this from an argument about the cost of cutting emissions — bad politics — to one about the value of a stable climate — much better politics. . . . the most valuable thing to do is to tell the story about abrupt change as vividly as possible.”

To win the public debate nothing was out of bounds. For instance, Mann, incensed that some skeptics had trashed his work, wrote to Jones, saying he had “been talking with folks in the states about finding an investigative journalist to investigate and expose McIntyre . . . perhaps the same needs to be done with this Kennan guy . . . I believe that the only way to stop these people is by exposing them and discrediting them.” Steve McIntyre and Doug Kennan are well-known skeptics. In fact, McIntyre’s work was crucial in proving that Mann’s infamous “hockey stick graph” — the heart of the United Nations’ IPCC-3 report — was a fraud. Rather than contest McIntyre’s findings with evidence and data, Mann decided that his best alternative was to smear his challenger’s reputation. Skeptics always had to be on the watch for Mann’s spiteful attacks. But what is interesting is that many of his fellow warmists had a low opinion of his work. Despite this, they were slow to criticize Mann — partly because they did not want to give the skeptics any more ammunition, but also because they were afraid of him. As one warmist wrote to Jones, Mann was a “serious enemy” and “vindictive.”

Worried that their e-mail discussions might turn a spotlight on their fraud, Jones and others were constantly advising one another on how to hide the evidence. For instance, Jones once sent out an e-mail stating: “I’ve been told that IPCC is above national FOI [Freedom of Information] Acts. One way to cover yourself and all those working in AR5 would be to delete all emails at the end of the process.” To which one warmist replied: “Phil, thanks for your thoughts — guarantee there will be no dirty laundry in the open.”

Still, none of this deception would be possible without the active collusion of much of the global press, which has swallowed the warmist agenda hook, line, and sinker. As one BBC journalist wrote to Phil Jones after running a piece slightly skeptical of the warmist position:

I can well understand your unhappiness at our running the other piece. But we are constantly being savaged by the loonies for not giving them any coverage at all, especially as you say with the COP [Conference of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol] in the offing, and being the objective impartial (ho ho) BBC that we are, there is an expectation in some quarters that we will every now and then let them say something. I hope though that the weight of our coverage makes it clear that we think they are talking through their hats.

What is even more troubling is what appears to be the active collusion of government agencies charged with looking out for the public welfare. In one Jones e-mail, he discusses hiding data, making it clear that the U.S. Department of Energy was an active participant in his fraud: “Any work we have done in the past is done on the back of the research grants we get — and has to be well hidden. I’ve discussed this with the main funder (US Dept of Energy) in the past and they are happy about not releasing the original station data.” I hope someone in Congress is interested in why the Department of Energy was involved in hiding climate data. One might assume that it would be harder to make an investment in Solyndra if the global-warming threat was proven a fraud.

My favorite quote of all those uncovered was from the climate criminal who asked his colleagues what would happen to them if it was discovered that climate change was “mainly a multidecadal natural fluctuation,” as much of the evidence shows. He answers his own question: “They’ll kill us probably.”

Who released the emails?

BTW - I think this thread is Germans. http://www.usmessageboard.com/envir...will-the-agw-proponents-justify-this-one.html

 

[westwall]

Follow the money!!! Who's getting more, academic scientists funded by grants or skeptics/deniers bankrolled by energy companies?

Yes indeed follow the money, AGW alarmists recieve BILLIONS every year from governments and companies. AGW sceptics like Dr. Tim Ball on the other hand must ask for donations to defend himself from the likes of Mann who are using large legal specialists to attack a sceptic.

I KNOW who has the most money to throw around and it's you clowns. And yet you are still losing!

 

[westwall]

However, like a bacterium festering away someplace dank and fetid, Climategate is poised to infect reality once again: The Guardian is reporting that a second cache of stolen emails has been released anonymously, and once again the cries of conspiracy are being heard. However, it looks like these emails aren’t really new, and were simply from the original stolen batch, but were held back until today. Mind you, the emails from the first Climategate were released right before a big climate conference, in an obvious attempt to derail it in the media. This new batch was released days before a similar conference, in what appears to be a similar propaganda move.

[UPDATE: Congressman Ed Markey (D-MA) has called on the US intelligence community to investigate who stole these emails. I think this is the right move. We still don't know who did this two years ago, and I'd be fascinated to see who was behind it. H/T Michael Mann on Twitter.]


Climate change denial blogs picked up on this immediately of course. There are examples in the Guardian article linked above. But this is the usual hue and cry, with nothing really new. About all this supposedly new material Michael Mann said:

Mann called the new batch of emails "truly pathetic" and said they reflect desperation among climate deniers, who have failed to pick holes in the science. "They have instead turned to smear, innuendo, criminal hacking of websites, and leaking out-of-context snippets of personal emails in their effort to try to confuse the public about the science and thereby forestall any action to combat this critical threat."

Climategate 2: More ado about nothing. Again. | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Not stolen, no matter how much you try and deny it, the person or persons responsible are WHISTLEBLOWERS and releasing the information from inside!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

However, like a bacterium festering away someplace dank and fetid, Climategate is poised to infect reality once again: The Guardian is reporting that a second cache of stolen emails has been released anonymously, and once again the cries of conspiracy are being heard. However, it looks like these emails aren’t really new, and were simply from the original stolen batch, but were held back until today. Mind you, the emails from the first Climategate were released right before a big climate conference, in an obvious attempt to derail it in the media. This new batch was released days before a similar conference, in what appears to be a similar propaganda move.

[UPDATE: Congressman Ed Markey (D-MA) has called on the US intelligence community to investigate who stole these emails. I think this is the right move. We still don't know who did this two years ago, and I'd be fascinated to see who was behind it. H/T Michael Mann on Twitter.]


Climate change denial blogs picked up on this immediately of course. There are examples in the Guardian article linked above. But this is the usual hue and cry, with nothing really new. About all this supposedly new material Michael Mann said:

Mann called the new batch of emails "truly pathetic" and said they reflect desperation among climate deniers, who have failed to pick holes in the science. "They have instead turned to smear, innuendo, criminal hacking of websites, and leaking out-of-context snippets of personal emails in their effort to try to confuse the public about the science and thereby forestall any action to combat this critical threat."

Climategate 2: More ado about nothing. Again. | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Not stolen, no matter how much you try and deny it, the person or persons responsible are WHISTLEBLOWERS and releasing the information from inside!

What are their names?

 

[westwall]

In your entire diatribe, you are unable to identify one piece of falsified data

42% of the weather stations used by the alarmists to support their "facts" are faulty according to the GAO and here is the report from NOAA on how they are going to fix them, and for the record this was FORCED on them by a sceptic. You really need to open your eyes pal.


Summary

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) maintains a network of weather-monitoring stations known as the U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN), which monitors the nation's climate and analyzes long-term surface temperature trends. Recent reports have shown that some stations in the USHCN are not sited in accordance with NOAA's standards, which state that temperature instruments should be located away from extensive paved surfaces or obstructions such as buildings and trees. GAO was asked to examine (1) how NOAA chose stations for the USHCN, (2) the extent to which these stations meet siting standards and other requirements, and (3) the extent to which NOAA tracks USHCN stations' adherence to siting standards and other requirements and has established a policy for addressing nonadherence to siting standards. GAO reviewed data and documents, interviewed key NOAA officials, surveyed the 116 NOAA weather forecast offices responsible for managing stations in the USHCN, and visited 8 forecast offices.




U.S. GAO - Climate Monitoring: NOAA Can Improve Management of the U.S. Historical Climatology Network

 

[Si modo]

Old question, long since answered, irrelevant to the thread topic.

No, it has not been answered. Not at all. And, it is absolutely relevant to your post. A claim is not in a position to be refuted if there is no evidence for that claim in the first place.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence and data to support man made global warming. If you truly want to read up on the topic and see the data for yourself you can start here

Human and Natural Drivers of Climate Change - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM.1). The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3} "

"The understanding of anthropogenic warming and cooling influences on climate has improved since the TAR, leading to very high confidence[7] that the global average net effect of human activities since 1750 has been one of warming, with a radiative forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2 (see Figure SPM.2). {2.3, 6.5, 2.9} "

That site has a wealth of info that you can use to educate yourself if you actually want to form your own opinion.

Which is (1) mostly about increases in CO2 in the atmosphere, which few are arguing; and (2) based on predictive models, most of which are not falsifiable thus are not scientific.

 

[Dragon]

No, it has not been answered. Not at all.

Of course it has, you know it has, anyone with a scientific background knows it has, and you're lying again. Utterly contemptible and unworthy of any response except this:

I'm not interested in rehashing the entire AGW non-debate on this thread. All I'm interested in doing is dealing with the fallacious argument advanced in the OP. I'm particularly not interested in discussing the matter with someone who disingenuously and dishonestly claims that there is literally NO evidence in favor of AGW. If you were scientifically ignorant, I might treat that with enough respect to educate you, but you're not, which means you're lying again. Go fuck yourself.

And besides:

And, it is absolutely relevant to your post.

No, it is not. The thread topic is about alleged misbehavior by scientists, which is an ad hominem fallacious attack on the AGW idea. A discussion of AGW itself and the scientific evidence therefor is off-topic. Whether scientists have behaved badly -- and any significance (or lack of it) for such malfeasance if it has indeed occurred -- is on-topic.

 

[Si modo]

No, it has not been answered. Not at all.

Of course it has, you know it has, anyone with a scientific background knows it has, and you're lying again. Utterly contemptible and unworthy of any response except this:

I'm not interested in rehashing the entire AGW non-debate on this thread. All I'm interested in doing is dealing with the fallacious argument advanced in the OP. I'm particularly not interested in discussing the matter with someone who disingenuously and dishonestly claims that there is literally NO evidence in favor of AGW. If you were scientifically ignorant, I might treat that with enough respect to educate you, but you're not, which means you're lying again. Go fuck yourself.

And besides:

And, it is absolutely relevant to your post.

No, it is not. The thread topic is about alleged misbehavior by scientists, which is an ad hominem fallacious attack on the AGW idea. A discussion of AGW itself and the scientific evidence therefor is off-topic. Whether scientists have behaved badly -- and any significance (or lack of it) for such malfeasance if it has indeed occurred -- is on-topic.

Then, show the scientific evidence, don't just get mad about my asking for it.

The state of the science still does not allow for any conclusion about the significance and/or magnitude of man made CO2 on any warming.

If it does, then show the science doing so.

Thanks.

 

[westwall]

No allegations regarding the behavior of scientists can EVER suffice as a refutation of global warming. In order to account for the evidence we have, such behavior would have to amount to a conspiracy among thousands of scientists, and in effect the entire scientific community would have to be corrupt from top to bottom -- an assertion utterly without credibility.

What evidence do we have that man made CO2 has significantly contributed to warming?

Old question, long since answered, irrelevant to the thread topic.

Old question NEVER answered other then by the Vostock ice cores which show warming occuring first then hundreds of years later the CO2 levels rise. Showing categorically that CO2 has zero impact on global climates, it is a result of warming not the other way around.

 

[paulitician]

You will all die because of anything but Global Warming. So what's all the freaking out about? Global Warming has been over-hyped and fear mongered to death. It will not be the death of us all. Now if you were all panicking about Global Cooling,i would be more willing to involve myself in a real discussion on that. Global Cooling would actually be a terrible calamity for our Planet. But the Global Warming cult can just go away as far as i'm concerned. They've run out of fear mongering steam.

 

[RDD_1210]

No, it has not been answered. Not at all. And, it is absolutely relevant to your post. A claim is not in a position to be refuted if there is no evidence for that claim in the first place.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence and data to support man made global warming. If you truly want to read up on the topic and see the data for yourself you can start here

Human and Natural Drivers of Climate Change - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM.1). The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3} "

"The understanding of anthropogenic warming and cooling influences on climate has improved since the TAR, leading to very high confidence[7] that the global average net effect of human activities since 1750 has been one of warming, with a radiative forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2 (see Figure SPM.2). {2.3, 6.5, 2.9} "

That site has a wealth of info that you can use to educate yourself if you actually want to form your own opinion.

Which is (1) mostly about increases in CO2 in the atmosphere, which few are arguing; and (2) based on predictive models, most of which are not falsifiable thus are not scientific.

Like I thought. You had no interest in actually learning about the topic. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I really can't.

 

[westwall]

However, like a bacterium festering away someplace dank and fetid, Climategate is poised to infect reality once again: The Guardian is reporting that a second cache of stolen emails has been released anonymously, and once again the cries of conspiracy are being heard. However, it looks like these emails aren’t really new, and were simply from the original stolen batch, but were held back until today. Mind you, the emails from the first Climategate were released right before a big climate conference, in an obvious attempt to derail it in the media. This new batch was released days before a similar conference, in what appears to be a similar propaganda move.

The fact that information is released at an opportune moment doesn't make it propaganda. Deap Throat wanted to derail the Nixon Adminisration. That didn't make his information bogus. The reason you release negative information is to put a stop to the nefarious activities it exposes.

Obviously, the person behind this release wants to derail the climate conference, but what sane intelligent person wouldn't want to derail a conflaguration of con artists and humbugs?

But I think "Deep Throat" actually gave the reporters facts not snippets of personal communications.....as was quoted in the post.


"Mann called the new batch of emails "truly pathetic" and said they reflect desperation among climate deniers, who have failed to pick holes in the science. "They have instead turned to smear, innuendo, criminal hacking of websites, and leaking out-of-context snippets of personal emails in their effort to try to confuse the public about the science and thereby forestall any action to combat this critical threat."

Yes the targets of WHISTLEBLOWERS allways try and denigrate the releases of information. I find it amazing that anyone would castigate this person or persons for releasing information that shows beyond a doubt that the warmist science is crap, they even admit it in their own words and yet you still defend them.

Sad, very sad.

 

[Si modo]

Actually, there is plenty of evidence and data to support man made global warming. If you truly want to read up on the topic and see the data for yourself you can start here

Human and Natural Drivers of Climate Change - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM.1). The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3} "

"The understanding of anthropogenic warming and cooling influences on climate has improved since the TAR, leading to very high confidence[7] that the global average net effect of human activities since 1750 has been one of warming, with a radiative forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2 (see Figure SPM.2). {2.3, 6.5, 2.9} "

That site has a wealth of info that you can use to educate yourself if you actually want to form your own opinion.

Which is (1) mostly about increases in CO2 in the atmosphere, which few are arguing; and (2) based on predictive models, most of which are not falsifiable thus are not scientific.

Like I thought. You had no interest in actually learning about the topic. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I really can't.

I'm pretty well versed in the topic. Your site is nothing new to me.

The increase in CO2 is not proof of much of anything except an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.

When a model or any scientific hypothesis or theory is not falsifiable, it is not scientific, by definition.

Those are just facts.

 

[RDD_1210]

No, it has not been answered. Not at all.

Of course it has, you know it has, anyone with a scientific background knows it has, and you're lying again. Utterly contemptible and unworthy of any response except this:

I'm not interested in rehashing the entire AGW non-debate on this thread. All I'm interested in doing is dealing with the fallacious argument advanced in the OP. I'm particularly not interested in discussing the matter with someone who disingenuously and dishonestly claims that there is literally NO evidence in favor of AGW. If you were scientifically ignorant, I might treat that with enough respect to educate you, but you're not, which means you're lying again. Go fuck yourself.

And besides:

And, it is absolutely relevant to your post.

No, it is not. The thread topic is about alleged misbehavior by scientists, which is an ad hominem fallacious attack on the AGW idea. A discussion of AGW itself and the scientific evidence therefor is off-topic. Whether scientists have behaved badly -- and any significance (or lack of it) for such malfeasance if it has indeed occurred -- is on-topic.

Then, show the scientific evidence, don't just get mad about my asking for it.

The state of the science still does not allow for any conclusion about the significance and/or magnitude of man made CO2 on any warming.

If it does, then show the science doing so.

Thanks.

I provided scientific evidence and you decided to ignore it. What's the point in trying to even have an adult conversation with you?

 

[westwall]

However, like a bacterium festering away someplace dank and fetid, Climategate is poised to infect reality once again: The Guardian is reporting that a second cache of stolen emails has been released anonymously, and once again the cries of conspiracy are being heard. However, it looks like these emails aren’t really new, and were simply from the original stolen batch, but were held back until today. Mind you, the emails from the first Climategate were released right before a big climate conference, in an obvious attempt to derail it in the media. This new batch was released days before a similar conference, in what appears to be a similar propaganda move.

[UPDATE: Congressman Ed Markey (D-MA) has called on the US intelligence community to investigate who stole these emails. I think this is the right move. We still don't know who did this two years ago, and I'd be fascinated to see who was behind it. H/T Michael Mann on Twitter.]


Climate change denial blogs picked up on this immediately of course. There are examples in the Guardian article linked above. But this is the usual hue and cry, with nothing really new. About all this supposedly new material Michael Mann said:

Mann called the new batch of emails "truly pathetic" and said they reflect desperation among climate deniers, who have failed to pick holes in the science. "They have instead turned to smear, innuendo, criminal hacking of websites, and leaking out-of-context snippets of personal emails in their effort to try to confuse the public about the science and thereby forestall any action to combat this critical threat."

Climategate 2: More ado about nothing. Again. | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

Not stolen, no matter how much you try and deny it, the person or persons responsible are WHISTLEBLOWERS and releasing the information from inside!

What are their names?

Who cares. Is what they are releasing accurate? According to the climate mafia the first time around they were indeed accurate and their emails. The emails show beyond a doubt that the science is crap and even those involved are worried about what will happen to them if the scam is found out.

But then, you have to be a non-partisan hack to admit that don't you toober?

 

[westwall]

Actually, there is plenty of evidence and data to support man made global warming. If you truly want to read up on the topic and see the data for yourself you can start here

Human and Natural Drivers of Climate Change - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM.1). The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3} "

"The understanding of anthropogenic warming and cooling influences on climate has improved since the TAR, leading to very high confidence[7] that the global average net effect of human activities since 1750 has been one of warming, with a radiative forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2 (see Figure SPM.2). {2.3, 6.5, 2.9} "

That site has a wealth of info that you can use to educate yourself if you actually want to form your own opinion.

Which is (1) mostly about increases in CO2 in the atmosphere, which few are arguing; and (2) based on predictive models, most of which are not falsifiable thus are not scientific.

Like I thought. You had no interest in actually learning about the topic. I'd like to say I'm surprised, but I really can't.

On the contrary it is you who choose to not learn about the subject. The claim in the paper is that CO2 correlates with a rise in temperature and according to the paper correlation equals causation. Unfortunately for the paper and for the poor examples for scientists who propagated that piece of crap correlation does NOT equal causation.

 

[Si modo]

Of course it has, you know it has, anyone with a scientific background knows it has, and you're lying again. Utterly contemptible and unworthy of any response except this:

I'm not interested in rehashing the entire AGW non-debate on this thread. All I'm interested in doing is dealing with the fallacious argument advanced in the OP. I'm particularly not interested in discussing the matter with someone who disingenuously and dishonestly claims that there is literally NO evidence in favor of AGW. If you were scientifically ignorant, I might treat that with enough respect to educate you, but you're not, which means you're lying again. Go fuck yourself.

And besides:



No, it is not. The thread topic is about alleged misbehavior by scientists, which is an ad hominem fallacious attack on the AGW idea. A discussion of AGW itself and the scientific evidence therefor is off-topic. Whether scientists have behaved badly -- and any significance (or lack of it) for such malfeasance if it has indeed occurred -- is on-topic.

Then, show the scientific evidence, don't just get mad about my asking for it.

The state of the science still does not allow for any conclusion about the significance and/or magnitude of man made CO2 on any warming.

If it does, then show the science doing so.

Thanks.

I provided scientific evidence and you decided to ignore it. What's the point in trying to even have an adult conversation with you?

I did no such thing.

If one is going to participate in a discussion about science, one should present science to support their claims. The IPCC is a policy group.

I've already indicated the problems in the content of your link, but I will repeat them again:

1. Data on increases in CO2 in the atmosphere is evidence of nothing but increases of CO2 in the atmosphere.

2. Data churned out by models that are not falsifiable are not scientific data.

I'll add a third point:

3. Conflating policy with science and conflating activists with scientists is not conducive to a discussion about the science.

 

[westwall]

Of course it has, you know it has, anyone with a scientific background knows it has, and you're lying again. Utterly contemptible and unworthy of any response except this:

I'm not interested in rehashing the entire AGW non-debate on this thread. All I'm interested in doing is dealing with the fallacious argument advanced in the OP. I'm particularly not interested in discussing the matter with someone who disingenuously and dishonestly claims that there is literally NO evidence in favor of AGW. If you were scientifically ignorant, I might treat that with enough respect to educate you, but you're not, which means you're lying again. Go fuck yourself.

And besides:



No, it is not. The thread topic is about alleged misbehavior by scientists, which is an ad hominem fallacious attack on the AGW idea. A discussion of AGW itself and the scientific evidence therefor is off-topic. Whether scientists have behaved badly -- and any significance (or lack of it) for such malfeasance if it has indeed occurred -- is on-topic.

Then, show the scientific evidence, don't just get mad about my asking for it.

The state of the science still does not allow for any conclusion about the significance and/or magnitude of man made CO2 on any warming.

If it does, then show the science doing so.

Thanks.

I provided scientific evidence and you decided to ignore it. What's the point in trying to even have an adult conversation with you?

You would first have to be an adult for us to have such a conversation with you. As for your evidence see my post above.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Fearmongering is the go to card for american politicians.

Whether it's the sun, tan people, people who read a different holy book, the gov't not spending enough to save us from ourselves, their #1 goal is to have us constantly terrified so that we turn to them and give them more of our money and more power.