Schools no longer using "Pledge Of Allegiance", do you care why?

[Pogo]

Oh my name it is nothin’; my age it means less;
The country I come from is called the Midwest;
I was taught and brought up there, the laws to abide
And that the land that I live in has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it; they tell it so well:
The cavalries charged, the Indians fell.
The cavalries charged, the Indians died.
Oh the country was young then -- with God on its side.

Oh the First World War, boys, it closed out its fate.
The reason for fighting, I never got straight.
But I learned to accept it -- accept it with pride;
For you don’t count the dead when God’s on your side.

When the Second World War came to an end,
We forgave the Germans, and we were friends.
Though they murdered six million, in the ovens they fried;
The Germans now too have God on their side.

But now we got weapons of the chemical dust.
If fire them we’re forced to ... then fire them we must
One push of the button, and a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions when God’s on your side.

Through many dark hour I’ve been thinkin’ about this:
That Jesus Christ was betrayed by a kiss.
But I can’t think for you; you’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side.

So now as I’m leavin’, I’m weary as Hell;
The confusion I’m feelin’, ain’t no tongue can tell;
The words fill my head and fall to the floor:
"If God’s on our side.... He’ll stop the next war."

-- Bob Dylan (abbreviated)

 

[Vandalshandle]

God wants me to have a Manhattan on the Rocks to help me celebrate the 4th.

 

[Stephanie]

it's the transformation you all voted for

who cares

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why 'Under God' Was Added To The Pledge Of Allegiance in the face of "Free Religion", the catch, no "god" is specified..

Read more: Under God Added To Pledge Of Allegiance - Business Insider


"Two years later, on Flag Day again, Eisenhower also made "In God We Trust" our nation's official motto. The man must have loved his new religion."


So the Left is openly blamed for "taking god out of Government" but a little research openly pins them for putting god into Government which does not line up with Freedom of Religion. ..NO Religion should be forced on ANYONE. Or says the Constitution..

Can you tell us which religion the phrase "under God" establishes?

Well Muslim, Judism, and Christianity all refer to the same god. Hindu a different god. Buddists don't have a god. Atheists are many camps, they are god, their government is god, there is no such thing as a god, etc..

But it does not establish a religion it merely points out that our nation is not above god or even on an equal plane with god. It means it's ok to put your god before your country. At least that's how I take it.

We are in fact not a nation 'under god,' as citizens are subject solely to secular law, not religious doctrine or dogma, where church and state are kept separate in accordance with the original intent of the Framers.

It's sad and telling that so many Americans fail to understand this simple fact, and as a consequence of their fear and arrogance feel the need to compel others to acquiesce to their subjective beliefs.

 

[Yarddog]

Interesting the propensity of most conservatives to seek to compel conformity and fear expressions of individual liberty and dissent.

The pledge doesnt stiffle free expression, it is only like about sixty seconds out of their day at most. Just because a nation has symbols is not a bad thing. If you want to tear a nation down, you start dismantleing their symbols and you start from there. I think that is documented in the game plan isnt it?

A symbol is one thing. Symbols are everywhere, in every culture, and they serve constructive purposes.

A fetish is quite another thing. "I pledge allegiance to the flag" -- a piece of cloth. Not a country; a piece of cloth.

That is a little weird. And outside of our former colony the Philippines, we're the only country on earth that engages in this kinky stuff.

So were different. Ahh so your saying we should conform with the other nations? i see.
Well the US originaly was a little different from a lot of other nations. we were a confederation of states linked together to form a nation. If someone doesnt want to say the pledge thats definatly their right not to . Yeah its just a piece of cloth, and maybe a long time ago the piece of cloth represented something to someone.

Not to mention, at one point in our history we were a nation of legal immigration , attracting immigrants from all over the world MORE SO than all these other countries that dont have a pledge to their flag. Maybe its just a novel Idea that millions of Immigrants
comming to this country to start a better life go through this formality of saying a pledge to
the flag of their new host nation.

 

[Yarddog]

Can you tell us which religion the phrase "under God" establishes?

Well Muslim, Judism, and Christianity all refer to the same god. Hindu a different god. Buddists don't have a god. Atheists are many camps, they are god, their government is god, there is no such thing as a god, etc..

But it does not establish a religion it merely points out that our nation is not above god or even on an equal plane with god. It means it's ok to put your god before your country. At least that's how I take it.

Interesting. That never occurred to me. I always figured it was a "God's on our side" flame.

So you're saying the Pledge is a religious incantation?

One could also see it as, if we are One nation under God, then we are likewise NOT under a Man/ King/ Tyrant ( take your pick) but we all have an unalianable Freedom so to speak
that no man can take away. In other words we are just aqknowledging that we have more
freedom, not less.

 

[jasonnfree]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

 

[Katzndogz]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

Yes. If we want good citizens. Or, we can accept the alternative.

The Russian children will have loyalty to Russia and respect for the Russian flag. The Mexican children will have loyalty to Mexico and respect for the Mexican flag and the Chinese children will have loyalty to China and respect for the Chinese flag.

Then we can't call ourselves one nation at all.

 

[Pogo]

The pledge doesnt stiffle free expression, it is only like about sixty seconds out of their day at most. Just because a nation has symbols is not a bad thing. If you want to tear a nation down, you start dismantleing their symbols and you start from there. I think that is documented in the game plan isnt it?

A symbol is one thing. Symbols are everywhere, in every culture, and they serve constructive purposes.

A fetish is quite another thing. "I pledge allegiance to the flag" -- a piece of cloth. Not a country; a piece of cloth.

That is a little weird. And outside of our former colony the Philippines, we're the only country on earth that engages in this kinky stuff.

So were different. Ahh so your saying we should conform with the other nations? i see.

No, apparently you don't; I'm saying we, along with our ex-colony, are the only nation in the world that invokes idol worship of a piece of cloth. And regardless whether only we do it or everybody does it ---- that's fetishsm.

I live in a nation; I don't live in a flag. I don't pledge allegiance, or anything else, to a piece of cloth.

Well the US originaly was a little different from a lot of other nations. we were a confederation of states linked together to form a nation. If someone doesnt want to say the pledge thats definatly their right not to . Yeah its just a piece of cloth, and maybe a long time ago the piece of cloth represented something to someone.

Not to mention, at one point in our history we were a nation of legal immigration , attracting immigrants from all over the world MORE SO than all these other countries that dont have a pledge to their flag. Maybe its just a novel Idea that millions of Immigrants comming to this country to start a better life go through this formality of saying a pledge to the flag of their new host nation.

It sure is.

 

[Pogo]

Well Muslim, Judism, and Christianity all refer to the same god. Hindu a different god. Buddists don't have a god. Atheists are many camps, they are god, their government is god, there is no such thing as a god, etc..

But it does not establish a religion it merely points out that our nation is not above god or even on an equal plane with god. It means it's ok to put your god before your country. At least that's how I take it.

Interesting. That never occurred to me. I always figured it was a "God's on our side" flame.

So you're saying the Pledge is a religious incantation?

One could also see it as, if we are One nation under God, then we are likewise NOT under a Man/ King/ Tyrant ( take your pick) but we all have an unalianable Freedom so to speak that no man can take away. In other words we are just aqknowledging that we have more freedom, not less.

I don't see theocracy as "more freedom"; our model says that power emanates from the People --- not from some invisible sky pixie for whom only a certain caste of people are qualified to speak, i.e the "First Estate". That's the whole thing our Liberalist Founders were getting away from: being under the thumb of the First (clergy) and Second ('nobility') Estates and elevating the Third (the People) to their rightful place of self-determination.

Why, having wrested power away from that lot, would we want to give it back?

Indeed it could be argued that by putting elected office out of reach of anyone without enormous amounts of cash support, we have already long since invited the Second Estate back in -- if we had no traditional "nobility", no problem, we can just make one out of money. For that has indeed become the national religion: the worship of money. So it's fitting that the whole origin of the PofA -- a marketing scheme to sell flags -- is based on it.

 

[Pogo]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

Groupthink is always an iffy area to venture into. Here's what the writer of the Pledge had in mind for a salute:

 

[JWBooth]

Nope, I hope more follow suit, though I'd prefer it be for better reasons.
What's Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance? | Cato Institute
Pledging Allegiance ? LewRockwell.com

 

[jasonnfree]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

Yes. If we want good citizens. Or, we can accept the alternative.

The Russian children will have loyalty to Russia and respect for the Russian flag. The Mexican children will have loyalty to Mexico and respect for the Mexican flag and the Chinese children will have loyalty to China and respect for the Chinese flag.

Then we can't call ourselves one nation at all.

Does a good citizen march with the flag if the flag marches in the wrong direction? Millions of good Germans marched with Hitler right over the cliff. But they were good, loyal citizens.

 

[AntiParty]

They still use it. In fact, I live in one of those states where it is a mandatory morning ritual (even if every kid sat down).

I am not in agreement with the Under God inserted in to the Pledge. However, there is something that I don't get. Reciting it daily is a form of brainwashing. Abstract thinking doesn't begin until the ages of 12-15. So, basically what I hear people say when they are against the Pledge for under God is that brainwashing is fine.

Way to be like North Korea!

The US is the only country that has a pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

It was written by a socialist who was also trying to drum up business for selling flags. It worked. They put one in every classroom in America. It is just a rote jumble of words that really carries no message, except, perhaps to Texans, who recite the "One nation, under god, indivisible...", right before they start ranting about succession from the USA (not that they GET the message)

I have to say I'm interested in your post......but you don't have any information supporting it.

The standard for posting EDUCATED OPINIONS in forums is having a source for the information. Even if it ends up being an opinion in the end. But where did this frame of thought come from? I want to read it. You know more than most popular search engines or they know more than you.

 

[AntiParty]

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

Yes. If we want good citizens. Or, we can accept the alternative.

The Russian children will have loyalty to Russia and respect for the Russian flag. The Mexican children will have loyalty to Mexico and respect for the Mexican flag and the Chinese children will have loyalty to China and respect for the Chinese flag.

Then we can't call ourselves one nation at all.

Does a good citizen march with the flag if the flag marches in the wrong direction? Millions of good Germans marched with Hitler right over the cliff. But they were good, loyal citizens.

Who agree's on what we are doing today? Everyone knows our system is broke.

It's the simple minds that keep this system going.

 

[AntiParty]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

By all means let's have these children march in formation like good little soldiers. And of course, punish any that stray from the herd.

Groupthink is always an iffy area to venture into. Here's what the writer of the Pledge had in mind for a salute:

Groupthinking? Or rituals?

I already covered the basic principles of brainwashing
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bixMbAduRDM]UF gators band : gator chomp - YouTube[/ame]

THINKING has no part there............

Imagine being the guy that says, "HEY, we should twist 3 seconds into it, all of us"..........

The people don't matter, the leader has the control. And the person making the money is always the leader.........The followers are pathetic.

 

[Pogo]

I have no clue what that post means. Wanna try that again?

The point above wasn't brainwashing or who the leader is. That's immaterial. The point is where mob mentality leads. In other words where it leads the mob -- not where the leader may think he's taking it.

 

[regent]

The problem with these patriotic rituals and symbols is that they have become politicized and too often their use is to further a political party and have no relation to the nation. I would not say the pledge nor salute the flag if I felt coercion by the majority or that I was pledging to a political party's idea of what patriotism was supposed to mean.
I believe politicians have destroyed patriotism.

 

[AntiParty]

I have no clue what that post means. Wanna try that again?

The point above wasn't brainwashing or who the leader is. That's immaterial. The point is where mob mentality leads. In other words where it leads the mob -- not where the leader may think he's taking it.

Sure, just research the basics of brainwashing and you will catch up...

GROUP CHANTS is one of the basic steps of brainwashing. I guess I thought everyone would search "brainwashing" before replying to a thread about it. .........heh

But to see someone solidify the behavior and say, "hey I don't get it" just shows laziness.