School staffs face tough questions on bullying

[critter]

Look in the mirror folks. Girls are being told that its ok to have sex at a young age and with multiple partners. Then when they do they are called "sluts and ho's". Teens aren't as "enlightened and tolerant" as some of these oversexed adults seem to think. Fat kids are bullied more than anyone. How many fat jokes are posted on this board on a daily basis?

I've been through countless hours of anti-bullying training. All it has done has made teachers more aware. Its done NOTHING for the bullies and the bullied. There's no expulsion in NJ. And the kids are very very well aware of that fact. Kids are meaner and more violent than ever before. And who do we protect? Not the victims...

One of the reason why i try not to make fun of someone or immature things... online i am seeing i can change that with me. I was bullied in my school not like this but i just did not like it.

 

[Samson]

Look in the mirror folks. Girls are being told that its ok to have sex at a young age and with multiple partners. Then when they do they are called "sluts and ho's". Teens aren't as "enlightened and tolerant" as some of these oversexed adults seem to think. Fat kids are bullied more than anyone. How many fat jokes are posted on this board on a daily basis?

I've been through countless hours of anti-bullying training. All it has done has made teachers more aware. Its done NOTHING for the bullies and the bullied. There's no expulsion in NJ. And the kids are very very well aware of that fact. Kids are meaner and more violent than ever before. And who do we protect? Not the victims...

How does a parent know if their kid is being bullied (or is a bully?).

Despite popular belief kids don't tell their parents everything that happens at school. I ask my kids every fucking day how their day was? Guess what!!! they don't prattle on for more than about 5 seconds!! Nor do I recall making any long de-briefings, including overhead slides when I was in highschool!

So, I went to the school, to ask the teachers, counsellors, and various and sundry other specialists: How my kids' day was? Guess what!!! they don't prattle on for more than about 5 seconds!! Nor do I recall making any long de-briefings, including overhead slides when I was teaching highschool! Hey, I recall seeing each student for about 45 minutes/day? I didn't follow them around with a video camera.


My kid seems troubled: All weekend I try to catch him offguard, to lure him into a conversation regarding WTF the problem may be?

Nothing.

He goes to school Monday, and gets suspended.

He reports having felt someone touch his back, and then just "blacking out." He says he cannot recall roundhousing a punch into the kid's face behind him.

The teacher reports the guy behind my kid was trying to place a sticky note on his back, got hit once, did not retaliate, and the punching stopped after the one roundhouse.

The principal reported that my kid was very calm, respectful, and genuinely apologetic in the aftermath, and that no criminal charges had been filed by the other kid's parents.

WHEW!

 

[MaggieMae]

I really hate the blaming of the schools here. THey can't possibly stop every kind of bullying, its impossible.

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

 

[Samson]

I really hate the blaming of the schools here. THey can't possibly stop every kind of bullying, its impossible.

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

My, my!


Have you been looking for entertainment since not being allowed to burn witches??

 

[MaggieMae]

Our society seems to take this attitude that bullying is a part of growing up and kids are just being kids, but the fact of the matter is we send our kids to school and subject them to various threats day in and day out that we would never tolerate at our work place. . .....
Part of the problem with public education is that very few school districts have the balls to appropriately deal with problem students. They operate under this idea that they keep having to attempt to educate these children regardless of the fact that they fuck up the learning environment for everyone else just by being there. ......

You might have been correct..."B.C." ....Before Columbine. But All Public Schools now have anti-bullying programs that are taken very seriously (there are, of course, varying degrees of "very serious").

Witness the opposition's reference to "zero tolerance policy" for bullying:

I think part of the problem is the zero tolerance policy that treats those who defend themselves on an equal or lesser par as the bullying, often subtle or hidden. Both get suspended. Any time my daughter or son (rarely, but it happened) was suspended for defending themselves, I let the school know that while I understand the whole zero tolerance thing, and that while I would not protest the one or two days off, they would not be punished while they were home.

The "zero tolerance policy" isn't the problem.

The main problem is kids: They are incredibly cruel to each other. Go into even the best behaved school, and you'll find bullying (females are much more subtle). Its inherent in the species.

Public Schools teach ALL kids. Eventually they can be expelled, but only AFTER the fact.

Parents, however, are supposed to teach compassion. This is done through modelling compassion. I leave it up to you, gentle reader, to ask yourself how you did this TODAY?

I think parents are so afraid of their kids getting in trouble that many don't feel that they're allowed to defend themselves. I always let mine know that they were. Meanwhile, I also let them know that their mother was an outcast, unacceptable even to the geeks. I fell upstairs and off the bus...my mother cut my hair and my father refused to allow blue jeans. It was hell. I was the only pothead to make the honor roll, so my small circle was proud come high school. Mine know that they have a responsibility not only to not participate, but to defend. After all, it could be somebody's mother. It could be their own.

I don't get what you said. Whose mother was an outcast? Yours? Theirs? Or were you talking in third person, and the mother is yourself?

 

[MaggieMae]

Things are different now compared to when I was a kid. Fighting was a form of entertainment where I grew up. (Probably still is.) Bullying happened all the time.

A few weeks ago, my son was with a bunch of his friends when a few bullies jumped one of his friends. They gave him a few shots to the back of the head and ran off. A few minutes later, a couple of cop cars showed up. We spent an hour talking to the police and giving statements. Things sure have changed.

Bullying in my day meant picking on the kid who wore glasses or who was fat. Today, they not only pick on fat kids, but ones who are disabled or who might just have big ears. Somewhere alone the line, kids today are being programmed that they must be PERFECT. Perfect students, perfect athletes, perfect bodies, perfect friends, perfect homes, perfect parents.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ignorance is rampant on bullying of young children. Adults, especially men, turn their backs on it.
"Tough it up" is the worst kind of advice to tell a youngester about bullying. Usually, the kid being bullied has been beat down so many times that they accept the bulliers claimes that it is their fault they are being bullied.
2 kids in the last month in this area have committed suicide. One was a 14 year old girl that blew her brains out.
The problem is society. These are just kids. Wake up.

And it's a little more than just scary that they are the future leaders of America.

 

[Samson]

You might have been correct..."B.C." ....Before Columbine. But All Public Schools now have anti-bullying programs that are taken very seriously (there are, of course, varying degrees of "very serious").

Witness the opposition's reference to "zero tolerance policy" for bullying:



The "zero tolerance policy" isn't the problem.

The main problem is kids: They are incredibly cruel to each other. Go into even the best behaved school, and you'll find bullying (females are much more subtle). Its inherent in the species.

Public Schools teach ALL kids. Eventually they can be expelled, but only AFTER the fact.

Parents, however, are supposed to teach compassion. This is done through modelling compassion. I leave it up to you, gentle reader, to ask yourself how you did this TODAY?

I think parents are so afraid of their kids getting in trouble that many don't feel that they're allowed to defend themselves. I always let mine know that they were. Meanwhile, I also let them know that their mother was an outcast, unacceptable even to the geeks. I fell upstairs and off the bus...my mother cut my hair and my father refused to allow blue jeans. It was hell. I was the only pothead to make the honor roll, so my small circle was proud come high school. Mine know that they have a responsibility not only to not participate, but to defend. After all, it could be somebody's mother. It could be their own.

I don't get what you said. Whose mother was an outcast? Yours? Theirs? Or were you talking in third person, and the mother is yourself?

"I also let them know that their mother was an outcast"

Read in context:
I = the writer (MOTHER)
them/their = Mother's Children

She's talking about herself.

Apparently, Barb is who the "Carrie" Character was based on in the Stephen King novel of that same name, as well as the TV and movie screenplays.

Carrie is based on a composite of two girls who were bullied and abused at school; one who went to school with him, and one who was his student. The young girl King went to school with lived down the street from him in Durham, Maine. In an interview with Charles L. Grant for Twilight Zone Magazine in April 1981, King recalled that,

"She was a very peculiar girl who came from a very peculiar family. Her mother wasn't a religious nut like the mother in Carrie; she was a game nut, a sweepstakes nut who subscribed to magazines for people who entered contests … the girl had one change of clothes for the entire school year, and all the other kids made fun of her. I have a very clear memory of the day she came to school with a new outfit she'd bought herself. She was a plain-looking country girl, but she'd changed the black skirt and white blouse – which was all anybody had every seen her in – for a bright-colored checkered blouse with puffed sleeves and a skirt that was fashionable at the time. And everybody made worse fun of her because nobody wanted to see her change the mold."

 

[MaggieMae]

There is something to what you're saying that I'd at least like to respond, although I'm not sure how it may be linked to bullying....but it might.

I'm really addressing Male v. Male bullying, although F v F might be less violent, its just as emotionally devestating.

The rules of behaviour, in schools, are......."feminized." What is acceptable as what some would say is "Free Expression," has become unacceptable physical violence. Boys, cannot be boys, per se. I'm not advocating violence, but it is the historical way that boys settle their differences, to the extent that IT IS be genetically coded.

If society (or schools) inhibit this natural, hormonally induced behaviour, perhaps bullying is the result? Maybe each school would do well to have their own "Fight Club," wherein boys could simply beat the shit out of each other.

You believe the boy being bullied wants to fight?
The exact opposite is true and that is the problem. The aggressors need to be punished the first time and at home by their fathers. Violence is never acceptable under any conditions, especially the ones you propose.

Um...I was kidding about "Fight Club." (I said I don't condone violence).

Nor, do I even know if there's any relationship between the opposing forces and bullying. One is Feminization of Socially Acceptable Behaviour ("we will all sit, still, in our seats, BEHAVE and not get dirty"). The other is Natural Male Behaviours (elevated and fluxuating testosterone levels in almost all male mammles can cause violence).

Perhaps, instead of fight club all males between the ages of 12 and 16 should be given 4 hours/day hard labor...splitting logs, plowing fields, breaking rocks.

That rule has been around from time immemorial. In public schools, however, class size alone prevents a teacher from enforcing that rule.

 

[MaggieMae]

I believe that all-schools should have very prominent anti-bullying programs in place. At my school - bullies are punished and so are people who sit around and laugh at what the bullies are doing. If this school district did not have a program in place, then they should absolutely have to answer for not taking the steps needed to do everything that they could to protect their students.

That being said...

I think that sometimes because almost all of us went through the public school system as students, because we all have memories of teachers we liked or hated, times we were bullied or teased or misbehaved (or were bullied or teased or mistreated) when we thought teachers had seen or should have done something...we think that teachers can somehow magically stop bullying, teasing, or kids being terrible to one another.

And all I can say is....Its a helluva lot harder than you think.

I'm not trying to excuse this school district if there were things that they could have done. All I'm trying to add to the discussion is the point that, as a teacher I can tell you that its not like you can just point at a student and say "Stop that!" and the problem goes away. In fact, even a comprehensive anti-bullying campaign doesn't always stop children from being rotten and evil to one another.

Unfortunately, a lot of the bullying today happens off campus. On Facebook, Twitter, etc., and teachers don't have a clue until they start acting out on school grounds. The damned Internet, which none of us can do without, is also the bane of society.

 

[MaggieMae]

I really hate the blaming of the schools here. THey can't possibly stop every kind of bullying, its impossible.

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

My, my!


Have you been looking for entertainment since not being allowed to burn witches??

Huh? Don't like my suggestion? What's wrong with a little white lie if it would solve the problem? (I actually don't get why your comment has anything to do with mine...especially because if I see someone acting witchy or bitchy on this board, I'm still 'allowed' to say so.)

 

[Samson]

You believe the boy being bullied wants to fight?
The exact opposite is true and that is the problem. The aggressors need to be punished the first time and at home by their fathers. Violence is never acceptable under any conditions, especially the ones you propose.

Um...I was kidding about "Fight Club." (I said I don't condone violence).

Nor, do I even know if there's any relationship between the opposing forces and bullying. One is Feminization of Socially Acceptable Behaviour ("we will all sit, still, in our seats, BEHAVE and not get dirty"). The other is Natural Male Behaviours (elevated and fluxuating testosterone levels in almost all male mammles can cause violence).

Perhaps, instead of fight club all males between the ages of 12 and 16 should be given 4 hours/day hard labor...splitting logs, plowing fields, breaking rocks.

That rule has been around from time immemorial. In public schools, however, class size alone prevents a teacher from enforcing that rule.

Time immemorial?

No, not even Public Schools have been around from "Time Immemorial."

At no time in history, have public schools and society had more rules than the present that boys "will all sit, still, in our seats, BEHAVE and not get dirty" ALL DAY, EVERY WAKING HOUR.

 

[Samson]

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

My, my!


Have you been looking for entertainment since not being allowed to burn witches??

Huh? Don't like my suggestion? What's wrong with a little white lie if it would solve the problem? (I actually don't get why your comment has anything to do with mine...especially because if I see someone acting witchy or bitchy on this board, I'm still 'allowed' to say so.)

Yes, I think your suggestion is, to be polite, "ineffective."

If I was a bully, I'd simply pick anyone at random, and report THEM as being a bully, thereby making any public announcement's credability highly suspect.

 

[Gem]

Maggie Mae Wrote:

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

I mean this in all due respect when I say - you obviously do not work in a public school today. Public school faculty and staff can not simply announce that they know who is bullying even if they don't...because if they did, they would be hauling kids into the office. If they aren't, then the students know the adults are full of shit and feel even more emboldened to bully more.

Do I think that this school did some things wrong? Absolutely. But do I think that a school district can "very easily" stop bullying, even with a comprehensive anti-bullying program? No. And you are fooling yourself if you seriously think otherwise.

Bullying can't be stopped without the support of students, parents, teachers, and administrators...and frankly, we simply do not have that in today's society.

We have students who don't want to "narc" on their friends or other classmates, students who are trying to be cool themselves who will do just about anything to be perceived so - even if it means torturing another kids, and kids so afraid of being on the "out" themselves that they will go along with the bullies just to stay safe.

We have parents who are absolutely unwilling to believe that their precious little angels could be doing anything wrong and that it must be the school's fault. Parents who think that bullying is normal and that kids need to "toughen up," and parents who think that the public school teachers and administrators should be able to make all students get along and all students feel like the most popular kids in school.

We have administrators who are so afraid of lawsuits or so tired of arguments with parents who refuse to allow their children to take responsibility for their actions that they let behavior slide rather than deal with it. And we have teachers who are so burnt out at fighting against all of this that they just want to teach their damn subject and not have to try to personally stop every instance of teasing they witness on the off chance that it might be bullying.

You add that up and you have a big ol' mess that makes putting the school system solely in charge of stopping bullying a pipe dream.

 

[chanel]

So so true Gem. My son pushed a kid his freshman year who had knocked down the books of a friend of his. The VP said to him "you could be suspended for this but instead I'd rather say "thank you" In a Catholic school, they can apply discipline as they see fit, and don't worry too much about angry parents. They just show them the door if they don't like the way things are handled. No one ever messed with his friend again. Peer leadership programs can be effective; if the right leaders are involved.

 

[critter]

Maggie Mae Wrote:

They could control things very easily by just making regular announcements that they are aware of WHO is doing the bullying lately (even if they really don't know). It would put fear in the minds of those who are actually doing it.

I mean this in all due respect when I say - you obviously do not work in a public school today. Public school faculty and staff can not simply announce that they know who is bullying even if they don't...because if they did, they would be hauling kids into the office. If they aren't, then the students know the adults are full of shit and feel even more emboldened to bully more.

Do I think that this school did some things wrong? Absolutely. But do I think that a school district can "very easily" stop bullying, even with a comprehensive anti-bullying program? No. And you are fooling yourself if you seriously think otherwise.

Bullying can't be stopped without the support of students, parents, teachers, and administrators...and frankly, we simply do not have that in today's society.

We have students who don't want to "narc" on their friends or other classmates, students who are trying to be cool themselves who will do just about anything to be perceived so - even if it means torturing another kids, and kids so afraid of being on the "out" themselves that they will go along with the bullies just to stay safe.

We have parents who are absolutely unwilling to believe that their precious little angels could be doing anything wrong and that it must be the school's fault. Parents who think that bullying is normal and that kids need to "toughen up," and parents who think that the public school teachers and administrators should be able to make all students get along and all students feel like the most popular kids in school.

We have administrators who are so afraid of lawsuits or so tired of arguments with parents who refuse to allow their children to take responsibility for their actions that they let behavior slide rather than deal with it. And we have teachers who are so burnt out at fighting against all of this that they just want to teach their damn subject and not have to try to personally stop every instance of teasing they witness on the off chance that it might be bullying.

You add that up and you have a big ol' mess that makes putting the school system solely in charge of stopping bullying a pipe dream.

One of the well said and tur to all bold parts. Stomping bullying its not easy, but at same time they need to take 1 step at a time. and make sure it ends. i agree with you with all points.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Um...I was kidding about "Fight Club." (I said I don't condone violence).

Nor, do I even know if there's any relationship between the opposing forces and bullying. One is Feminization of Socially Acceptable Behaviour ("we will all sit, still, in our seats, BEHAVE and not get dirty"). The other is Natural Male Behaviours (elevated and fluxuating testosterone levels in almost all male mammles can cause violence).

Perhaps, instead of fight club all males between the ages of 12 and 16 should be given 4 hours/day hard labor...splitting logs, plowing fields, breaking rocks.

That rule has been around from time immemorial. In public schools, however, class size alone prevents a teacher from enforcing that rule.

Time immemorial?

No, not even Public Schools have been around from "Time Immemorial."

At no time in history, have public schools and society had more rules than the present that boys "will all sit, still, in our seats, BEHAVE and not get dirty" ALL DAY, EVERY WAKING HOUR.

Correct. If anything schools and colleges have been doing their damndest to take the boy out of being a boy. The men of today are wimps compared to their grandfathers.

 

[Barb]

Apparently, Barb is who the "Carrie" Character was based on

 

[Samson]

Apparently, Barb is who the "Carrie" Character was based on

Shit....its getting hot in here.......





FIRE!!!!!

 

[Barb]

Apparently, Barb is who the "Carrie" Character was based on

Shit....its getting hot in here.......





FIRE!!!!!