say a prayer go to jail

[KittenKoder]

It sounds like a simple concept, but people aren't that simple. There are too many variables you have to take into consideration...like religion. If you really, truly believed that to stop fighting would mean an eternity of fiery torment, would you? Hypothetical question, I know, but consider it. To what lengths would you go to avoid being burned and tortured for all of eternity? Would you maybe kill a few people that, according to your God and your fellow believers, are horrible and don't deserve to live anyway?

Aah ... which is the point I made to my pacifist friend, it's simply not possible, world peace is just impossible.

I don't know whether it's possible or not...I'm inclined to agree that it isn't. But I'm also inclined to think that taking religion out of the mix would drastically change that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Not really, taking away one reason to fight only shifts the reasoning to another.

 

[iagainsti]

Aah ... which is the point I made to my pacifist friend, it's simply not possible, world peace is just impossible.

I don't know whether it's possible or not...I'm inclined to agree that it isn't. But I'm also inclined to think that taking religion out of the mix would drastically change that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Not really, taking away one reason to fight only shifts the reasoning to another.

True. Money's always a big one. And even if you take away both money and God, you'll never stop people fighting over the remote.

 

[KittenKoder]

I don't know whether it's possible or not...I'm inclined to agree that it isn't. But I'm also inclined to think that taking religion out of the mix would drastically change that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Not really, taking away one reason to fight only shifts the reasoning to another.

True. Money's always a big one. And even if you take away both money and God, you'll never stop people fighting over the remote.

It is the nature of humanity for some reason, we are just a violent species. Though we may one day evolve beyond that, and some are slowly evolving past that drive, it won't happen to everyone any time soon. In the past we had to struggle against nature just to survive, and that mentality is ingrained in us, though now we don't have to struggle against nature so we turn on each other. Due to the proportionate time of evolution between simple and complex organisms, it could take another million years before we get there.

 

[Smartt33]

This country is so screwed up. Just read the messages on this thread, no one is willing to reason and allow true freedom to exist. It is not just Christians who cannot seem to allow for some freedoms that they don't agree with, the rest of society is exactly the same.

We can allow any law abiding citizen to have their freedoms, until it seems to bump into our freedoms. Then, something has to give. A simple example, why can't people listen to music as loud as they want to? It is the way they listen. However, the neighbor seems to have a problem with that. Either it bothers their sleeping time, or shakes their windows, or maybe the language in the music is, unacceptable to them. Now we have a problem. The one has a right to loud music (there are some noise laws though). The other has the right to rest, and I don't think there are any laws against that.

The real and reasonable answer, communicate kindly with each other, understand each other, and realize that adjustments need to be made sometimes.

On the issue of prayer in public, what are some solutions? As a Christian, I believe I can pray anytime and anywhere, and for whomever I choose to. However, I also can do that without it being known to anyone other than myself and God. On the other hand, Jesus prayed publicly, even so that he could be heard. Prayer can be an event that unites. If it is done to unite, and the majority want it, I believe it is appropriate. Yes, prayer is to God, however, it is people that prayer changes. No matter what the prayer is for, or how God chooses to answer it, knowing that we have united in that prayer, and that "God works all things out for good to those who love God and are the called according to His purposes" changed those who prayer. We grow spiritually, emotionally, and even intellectually. When the prayer is to Creator God, we can rest assured that only good can result, because "every good gift comes from the Father in Heaven." He does not give bad gifts. He only disciplines His children, so the rest can rest knowing that God is not going to discipline them here on this earth.

We just need to grow up, reason together, and recognize that motive is the reason for all good in this earth, and for all bad. We create the good and the bad ourselves. For the believer, God uses even the bad in our lives to make something good.

Let's pray, even in public where it is helpful, and agreeable by the majority. If you don't agree, don't pray, and read something, or sing a song in your mind, or just ignore the prayers. Unless God wants to touch your life with something good, and those who pray are asking Him to do so, you need not even pay attention to the prayer. After all, you likely ignore many laws, so ignore people's prayers too.

 

[rdean]

They should move to Texas where Bible study is now "mandatory" in public schools. Teaching "mysticism" is only an option.

 

[N4mddissent]

the overwheming majority of the students and parents support them...interesting little tidbit there huh

So?

The entire reason for having a bill of rights is to prevent the oppression of the majority over the rights of the individual.

In situations like this, I can't help but wonder whether people are intentionally misleading in their arguments or whether they are just too dense to grasp the issue.

Should the government be able to send people to jail for praying?

No. Of course not. However, it has been established that public schools should remain neutral regarding religions, and any religious activities sponsored by a public school constitute an endorsement of religion specifically banned by the first amendment. This means that while public school employees may do what they want on their own time, they cannot engage in religious activities in their capacity as public school employees.

Private schools, public school students acting on their own, and public school employees acting outside their capacity as a school employee may pray as much as they want. Otherwise a local principal near my location would really suffer since he doubles as a local minister, conducting Sunday services.

The case in question is one where the prinicipal was engaging in inappropriate religious behavior, including promoting bibles in the classroom, school led prayer, and other religious activities that in his capacity as a government employee, would establish an endorsement of a religion and thus were unconsititutional. He admitted to this and signed onto a court order permanently barring him from engaging in religious activity in his capacity as a public employee. He then knowingly violated that order. This places him in contempt and many remedies, including jail, are at the judges disposal.

He was not threatened with jail for praying. He was threatened with jail for violating a court order.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone can pray anytime in our public schools I would think if (1) it does not disrupt the educational process, and (2) it does not infringe on someone's right not to be "bugged" by it.

Pray silently, guys. The problem is not our schools, it is the failure of our churches and families.

Concentrate your efforts in the churches and the families, and the rest of society will inevitably follow.

If you are trying to control the public forum, then you are creating a modern day Christian sharia in this country that will some day go out of control. I mean, look at some of the whack jobs on this forum that call themselves religious.

 

[Fatality]

the overwheming majority of the students and parents support them...interesting little tidbit there huh

So?

The entire reason for having a bill of rights is to prevent the oppression of the majority over the rights of the individual.

In situations like this, I can't help but wonder whether people are intentionally misleading in their arguments or whether they are just too dense to grasp the issue.

Should the government be able to send people to jail for praying?

No. Of course not. However, it has been established that public schools should remain neutral regarding religions, and any religious activities sponsored by a public school constitute an endorsement of religion specifically banned by the first amendment. This means that while public school employees may do what they want on their own time, they cannot engage in religious activities in their capacity as public school employees.

Private schools, public school students acting on their own, and public school employees acting outside their capacity as a school employee may pray as much as they want. Otherwise a local principal near my location would really suffer since he doubles as a local minister, conducting Sunday services.

The case in question is one where the prinicipal was engaging in inappropriate religious behavior, including promoting bibles in the classroom, school led prayer, and other religious activities that in his capacity as a government employee, would establish an endorsement of a religion and thus were unconsititutional. He admitted to this and signed onto a court order permanently barring him from engaging in religious activity in his capacity as a public employee. He then knowingly violated that order. This places him in contempt and many remedies, including jail, are at the judges disposal.

He was not threatened with jail for praying. He was threatened with jail for violating a court order.

except when the school practices muzzie week and all the girls have to wear burkas and everyone has to go around bowing to mecca right?

 

[rdean]

Statistically, praying and wishing are equally effective.

Funny, people will pray and it works 0.00000000000001% of the time. The other 99.9999999999999% of the time they say is "God's will". But they say the 0.000000000000001% of the time it seems to work is "proof".

So we pray really hard, Iran prays really hard. Who does God listen to? Who does he "believe"?

 

[JBeukema]

Statistically, praying and wishing are equally effective.

Incorrect. Studies have shown that those were knew they were being prayed for did worse.

 

[Smartt33]

No, if people wanted world peace, they would all just stop fighting. It's a simple concept. Everyone claims to want world peace, but almost no one is willing to just stop fighting about something.

It sounds like a simple concept, but people aren't that simple. There are too many variables you have to take into consideration...like religion. If you really, truly believed that to stop fighting would mean an eternity of fiery torment, would you? Hypothetical question, I know, but consider it. To what lengths would you go to avoid being burned and tortured for all of eternity? Would you maybe kill a few people that, according to your God and your fellow believers, are horrible and don't deserve to live anyway?

Aah ... which is the point I made to my pacifist friend, it's simply not possible, world peace is just impossible.

There will always be wars and rumors of war. However, I have discovered that in the midst of much termoil and trouble, I can have a peace that is very real. I can have that peace, and still be in the middle of the problems, and dealing with them. That is because "greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world. "

 

[Smartt33]

They should move to Texas where Bible study is now "mandatory" in public schools. Teaching "mysticism" is only an option.

Bible Study is not manditory in public schools in Texas. However, it is manditory that it be allowed, and maybe even be an elective in public schools. No one has to take it as a subject.

 

[N4mddissent]

the overwheming majority of the students and parents support them...interesting little tidbit there huh

So?

The entire reason for having a bill of rights is to prevent the oppression of the majority over the rights of the individual.

In situations like this, I can't help but wonder whether people are intentionally misleading in their arguments or whether they are just too dense to grasp the issue.

Should the government be able to send people to jail for praying?

No. Of course not. However, it has been established that public schools should remain neutral regarding religions, and any religious activities sponsored by a public school constitute an endorsement of religion specifically banned by the first amendment. This means that while public school employees may do what they want on their own time, they cannot engage in religious activities in their capacity as public school employees.

Private schools, public school students acting on their own, and public school employees acting outside their capacity as a school employee may pray as much as they want. Otherwise a local principal near my location would really suffer since he doubles as a local minister, conducting Sunday services.

The case in question is one where the prinicipal was engaging in inappropriate religious behavior, including promoting bibles in the classroom, school led prayer, and other religious activities that in his capacity as a government employee, would establish an endorsement of a religion and thus were unconsititutional. He admitted to this and signed onto a court order permanently barring him from engaging in religious activity in his capacity as a public employee. He then knowingly violated that order. This places him in contempt and many remedies, including jail, are at the judges disposal.

He was not threatened with jail for praying. He was threatened with jail for violating a court order.

except when the school practices muzzie week and all the girls have to wear burkas and everyone has to go around bowing to mecca right?

 

[Fatality]

So?

The entire reason for having a bill of rights is to prevent the oppression of the majority over the rights of the individual.

In situations like this, I can't help but wonder whether people are intentionally misleading in their arguments or whether they are just too dense to grasp the issue.

Should the government be able to send people to jail for praying?

No. Of course not. However, it has been established that public schools should remain neutral regarding religions, and any religious activities sponsored by a public school constitute an endorsement of religion specifically banned by the first amendment. This means that while public school employees may do what they want on their own time, they cannot engage in religious activities in their capacity as public school employees.

Private schools, public school students acting on their own, and public school employees acting outside their capacity as a school employee may pray as much as they want. Otherwise a local principal near my location would really suffer since he doubles as a local minister, conducting Sunday services.

The case in question is one where the prinicipal was engaging in inappropriate religious behavior, including promoting bibles in the classroom, school led prayer, and other religious activities that in his capacity as a government employee, would establish an endorsement of a religion and thus were unconsititutional. He admitted to this and signed onto a court order permanently barring him from engaging in religious activity in his capacity as a public employee. He then knowingly violated that order. This places him in contempt and many remedies, including jail, are at the judges disposal.

He was not threatened with jail for praying. He was threatened with jail for violating a court order.

except when the school practices muzzie week and all the girls have to wear burkas and everyone has to go around bowing to mecca right?

no answer huh? thought so.

 

[midcan5]

Hopefully they were praying for healthcare reform?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/85328-christians-on-uhc.html

 

[N4mddissent]

except when the school practices muzzie week and all the girls have to wear burkas and everyone has to go around bowing to mecca right?

no answer huh? thought so.

No. It's just that your response doesn't make sense. It sounds like some loon's paranoid fantasy. If you would care to elaborate on your "muzzies" comment, I'm listening. Otherwise it just remains a crackpot statement out of woo-woo land.

 

[wvulax]

The reason those guys are going to jail or will have some other consequence is because they violated a contract. It's similar to violation of parole. The fact that a contract stipulating religious rules exists is beyond me, but you have to accept that. They could have violated it in other ways and it still will be the same punishment.

I'm angry that a school could be used as an indoctrination camp and is sickening to me. As far as I'm concerned if a student asks a teacher on their views of god the correct response should be none at all. With respect to the children's perception of teachers, educators should be completely devoid of religion.