Save Social Security by Rasing the Minimum Wage

[KarlMarx]

corruption in Big Business and political elected officials and appointees...is not delusional? Hey dude it goes hand in hand in case you fell asleep at the wheel!

I'm not asleep at the wheel...

Yes, I realize that there are corrupt CEOs and some of them went to jail. There are the recent cases of Enron and WorldCom CEOs being charged and convicted of fraud. Of course, we can't forget the most famous CEO of all, Martha Stewart, who was imprisoned for insider trading. Not known to most people, there is also a piece of legislation called the Sarbanes Oxley Act recently passed by the government that gives it broad authority to look over the shoulder of every corporation and in effect is conscripting part of each corporation's work force into becoming the government's full time auditers.

CEOs must now personally sign an affadavit claiming that their financial records are truthful..... no such legislation exists for unions and their finances.
In fact, I believe that unions are insulated from having to show their books to anyone, since they're tax exempt.... how convenient!

There is also an act called the "Sherman Anti-Trust Act" passed in the early 1900s.... in which the government can, and has, used to break up what it considers monopolistic practices by big businesses.... I can name two big ones that were targetted, IBM and AT&T... oh, and what about Microsoft? Again, no such legislation exists for unions....

Companies also can sue each other or have the Justice Department investigate other corporations....

There is also this branch of the government called The Securities and Exchange Commission that oversees the transactions of securities of corporations...

Then there is the situation of union violence... where certain unions have used violence and the threat of violence to get their way during collective bargaining.... I can say with a good degree of confidence that IBM, Lockheed Martin or Microsoft hasn't hired people to beat up members of the competition.

With all these examples, I believe that unions are the ones that need to be looked at more closely, not corporations.

 

[G Edward Cook]

Sorry Mr P, it was someone answering your reply that said the Big Mac would cost $10.

MtnBiker, There are not that many people making the minimum wage; however, when you look at the number of people making slightly above the minimum wage, the numbers swell. A Newark NJ newspaper stated there were only about 5,000 people in NJ making the minimum wage; however, when they looked at people making less than $6.50 the number was over 220,000. NJ is one of the highest paying states in the country. I feel there are over 50 million workers in the US making less than $8 per hour.

As for the 15 year old, every dollar that kid makes is a dollar less his mother or father has to give him, he is earning wages that are just as important. Isn't he just as important as everyone else? Aren't we ALL EQUAL? The minimum wage hasn't gone up in years, how long has it been since you got a raise? I get one every year as do all members of the senate that just rejected the minimum wage increase again. Only one percent of American Workers kept up with inflation last ear. What's that about?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

 

[dilloduck]

Sorry Mr P, it was someone answering your reply that said the Big Mac would cost $10.

MtnBiker, There are not that many people making the minimum wage; however, when you look at the number of people making slightly above the minimum wage, the numbers swell. A Newark NJ newspaper stated there were only about 5,000 people in NJ making the minimum wage; however, when they looked at people making less than $6.50 the number was over 220,000. NJ is one of the highest paying states in the country. I feel there are over 50 million workers in the US making less than $8 per hour.

As for the 15 year old, every dollar that kid makes is a dollar less his mother or father has to give him, he is earning wages that are just as important. Isn't he just as important as everyone else?

Aren't we ALL EQUAL?

The minimum wage hasn't gone up in years, how long has it been since you got a raise? I get one every year as do all members of the senate that just rejected the minimum wage increase again. Only one percent of American Workers kept up with inflation last ear. What's that about?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

Very simply---NO--we are not all equal.

 

[MtnBiker]

I feel there are over 50 million workers in the US making less than $8 per hour.

You feel it or do you know it? There are staticis available.

 

[MtnBiker]

Very simply---NO--we are not all equal.

Agreed, will have all aquired a different set of skills and skill level.

 

[G Edward Cook]

Dear Karl Marx,

Why should terrorist attack us in the USA when we have given them so many targets in Iraq? Many more than 1,623 Americans have died in Iraq and there was not one person from Iraq involved is 911. There was not one person from Iraq wanted for terrorist actions by the US for TEN YEARS before we attacked Iraq! NOT ONE! Go figure!
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

 

[dilloduck]

Dear Karl Marx,

Why should terrorist attack us in the USA when we have given them so many targets in Iraq? Many more than 1,623 Americans have died in Iraq and there was not one person from Iraq involved is 911. There was not one person from Iraq wanted for terrorist actions by the US for TEN YEARS before we attacked Iraq! NOT ONE! Go figure!
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

hey dude---try to follow along with the board game -----find the appropriate forums and threads to post in. :read:

 

[archangel]

hey dude---try to follow along with the board game -----find the appropriate forums and threads to post in. :read:

he just lost me here..why does it always have to go to war protesting no matter what the subject matter is? I can agree with both sides on economic matters to some extent...but when it goes to war protesting...well it dredges up many unpleasent memories from my era VN...I hate spitters!

 

[G Edward Cook]

I just kept seeing it at the bottom of Karl's reply and couldn't help myself. Sorry!

 

[dilloduck]

I just kept seeing it at the bottom of Karl's reply and couldn't help myself. Sorry!

I guess since you started the thread you may as well take off on tangents---it's a thing that liberal "politicians" do frequently when confronted.

 

[G Edward Cook]

And you love it!

 

[MtnBiker]

Come on G Edward. You claimed that there are over 50 million workers earning less than 8 dollars an hour. In Dec 2005 there were 142,671,000 employeed with a weekly average income of $550.61.

Show me the math that pulls the average up to $550.61 with one third of the employeed earning less than $320.00 per week.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_01062006.pdf

 

[dilloduck]

And you love it!

I do--the wackier you get, the better chance conservatives have of staying around. Thanks !

 

[G Edward Cook]

MtnBiker, I think 50 million is about right. I will check it out; however, you must consider there is no limit to the top pay with CEOs making millions where the bottom has a limit of $5.15 per hour. Also consider that the average American works over 40 hours per week so many of the hours are time and a half. A person working 60 hours per week at $8 per hour makes $12 for 20 of those hours. Here in Pennsylvania, I know many, many full time workers that make less than $8 per hour. In NE PA $10 is good pay. The average family income in PA is in the 30s. I will look it up again but I though it was $36,000 per year per family.

No one has ques toned it before; however, I didn't just make it up. I am good with math. Look at the Wave generator invention on my site and you will see what I mean. I make projections with numbers and I am for the most part in the ball park.
Got to get some sleep. I'll be back in a day or two. Thanks for your thoughts.

Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

 

[dmp]

For the last time - If somebody wants MORE THAN $8/ HR they should get as MANY JOBS as they CAN to equal that amount.

Stop being a big fat baby...Hold people PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their OWN income.

 

[KarlMarx]

For the last time - If somebody wants MORE THAN $8/ HR they should get as MANY JOBS as they CAN to equal that amount.

Stop being a big fat baby...Hold people PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their OWN income.

All this talk of finding a living wage is lost on me. My background and personal experience argues against a lot of what is posted on this thread. I live in a community of Italian immigrants, with limited skills and education, who should have, if some posters on this board are to be believed, wound up on welfare, on public assistance. In fact, nothing close to that has happened. Most, if not all, have attained a standard of living which rivals or exceeds most people's.

My parents both came to this country, legally, in 1955. They both started working at a local shoe factory, my mom was 18 and my dad was 25.
Anyway, the tannery my Dad worked in eventually closed and he started working in construction, then after that, he got a job in the local village as a laborer. He finally retired at the age 65.

My mom, on the other hand, worked at the company until 1997 until it finally closed its doors. Still wanting to work, she found a temp job at IBM as an assembly line worker, when that gig ended, she found another job as a cleaning lady at a senior living center. She's almost 70 and still works to this day.

Neither one of them has more than a 6th grade education. Yet, somehow, they managed to not only work this entire time, but have owned their own home since at least 1957. Their present one is bigger than most people's. To top it off, they put both me and my brother through college. They accomplished what they did through determination, hard work and frugality.

Neither one of them has ever been on government assistance other than occasional unemployment.

I can't say with any certainty whether their accomplishments are common or not. I can say, I am very proud of them. Their compatriots, who live in the area, also have accomplished much of the same thing. Some of the Italian immigrants own their own businesses, in landscaping, construction and so on. I also had a great uncle who immigrated here back in the 1920s, started a bread bakery business, which still is in business and employing his grandchildren, and soon, his great grandchildren.

The fact that two Italian immigrants and their fellow countrymen were able to come to this country and attain a standard of living which rivals and surpasses the natives without government assistance is nothing short of remarkable.

If my parents were asked why some people are poor, their answer would be that people don't have a chance, nor because of the lack of a living wage, but because some people are lazy, they spend their money on booze and cigarettes, and on foolish things. To them, there is no reason that anyone should be poor in this country. I know this to be true, because the subject has come up time and time again at the dinner table.

To me, my parents are proof that the American form of free market enterprise works and that tinkering with it to achieve some perceived social good is folly. I can understand the good intentions of some of posters on this board, motivated by concern for others for a living wage. However, the fact is that it has been shown and is agreed by almost all economists not to work. So to help your fellow man, instead of proposing something that, will eventually hurt them, instead, we should remove unnecessary government meddling in our pocketbooks and our lives thenlet the natural ability of people to better themselves run its natural course.

 

[Annie]

All this talk of finding a living wage is lost on me. My background and personal experience argues against a lot of what is posted on this thread. I live in a community of Italian immigrants, with limited skills and education, who should have, if some posters on this board are to be believed, wound up on welfare, on public assistance. In fact, nothing close to that has happened. Most, if not all, have attained a standard of living which rivals or exceeds most people's.

My parents both came to this country, legally, in 1955. They both started working at a local shoe factory, my mom was 18 and my dad was 25.
Anyway, the tannery my Dad worked in eventually closed and he started working in construction, then after that, he got a job in the local village as a laborer. He finally retired at the age 65.

My mom, on the other hand, worked at the company until 1997 until it finally closed its doors. Still wanting to work, she found a temp job at IBM as an assembly line worker, when that gig ended, she found another job as a cleaning lady at a senior living center. She's almost 70 and still works to this day.

Neither one of them has more than a 6th grade education. Yet, somehow, they managed to not only work this entire time, but have owned their own home since at least 1957. Their present one is bigger than most people's. To top it off, they put both me and my brother through college. They accomplished what they did through determination, hard work and frugality.

Neither one of them has ever been on government assistance other than occasional unemployment.

I can't say with any certainty whether their accomplishments are common or not. I can say, I am very proud of them. Their compatriots, who live in the area, also have accomplished much of the same thing. Some of the Italian immigrants own their own businesses, in landscaping, construction and so on. I also had a great uncle who immigrated here back in the 1920s, started a bread bakery business, which still is in business and employing his grandchildren, and soon, his great grandchildren.

The fact that two Italian immigrants and their fellow countrymen were able to come to this country and attain a standard of living which rivals and surpasses the natives without government assistance is nothing short of remarkable.

If my parents were asked why some people are poor, their answer would be that people don't have a chance, nor because of the lack of a living wage, but because some people are lazy, they spend their money on booze and cigarettes, and on foolish things. To them, there is no reason that anyone should be poor in this country. I know this to be true, because the subject has come up time and time again at the dinner table.

To me, my parents are proof that the American form of free market enterprise works and that tinkering with it to achieve some perceived social good is folly. I can understand the good intentions of some of posters on this board, motivated by concern for others for a living wage. However, the fact is that it has been shown and is agreed by almost all economists not to work. So to help your fellow man, instead of proposing something that, will eventually hurt them, instead, we should remove unnecessary government meddling in our pocketbooks and our lives thenlet the natural ability of people to better themselves run its natural course.

Agreed, pretty much the same here with immigrant grandparents. The government subsidies problems have never been with legal immigrants, moreso with recent illegals, but then again, the government has been advertising that the states will try to start programs so they can get 'in state tuition', etc. Even with that problem, the real push on government has been from Americans that have not good role models, abuse problems, and lack of education. They see more money possible from being on the dole, then taking a minimum wage job and using it as a stepping stone...

 

[Annie]

I am a Teamster, I support all unions. A worker without a union is a slave to the corporation. You must not know much about unions.

I am a road driver for Yellow. Most drivers make between $55,000 and $90,000 per year, depending on whether we work 4, 5 or 6 days per week. A few drivers top $100,000. We are home between four and seven nights per week and only stay at top hotels when we're away. We also get full benefits and over $100 per month pension at age 65 for each year worked to a maximum of $3,200 per month. We are the top payed drivers in the country and Yellow is doing great. How are you doing?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

Unions could be good, but they are not for they are nothing more than another faction via lobbying:

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/robertnovak/2006/02/18/186902.html

...UNION DISCLOSURES

The first documents received from unions in the Labor Department's demand for detailed financial disclosures, for the first time strictly enforcing the 1959 Landrum-Griffin labor reform act, suggest embarrassment by organized labor when the information is made public next month.

Early reports show the AFL-CIO spent $49 million (27 percent of its total annual budget) on political and lobbying activities but only $30 million (or 16.5 percent) to represent its members. That gap contributed to the breakaway from the AFL-CIO of the Teamsters, the Service Employees and other unions.

Another document reveals that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers spent $791 million, constituting 85 percent of its 2005 budget, purchasing fixed assets and investments.

 

[KarlMarx]

Unions could be good, but they are not for they are nothing more than another faction via lobbying:

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/robertnovak/2006/02/18/186902.html

True, unions might be a good thing, but any institution, no matter how good it's intentions can remain uncorrupted if there is no accountability.

Unions should be required to have financial oversight. What many of them do to their members is unconscionable.

However, thanks to politicians, especially Democratic ones, many unions, labor unions especially, enjoy a high degree of immunity to such indignities as regular disclosure of their finances and oversight by outside agencies.

 

[MtnBiker]

MtnBiker, I think 50 million is about right. I will check it out; however, you must consider there is no limit to the top pay with CEOs making millions where the bottom has a limit of $5.15 per hour.

Why would that be considered? Comparing an unskilled worker entering the labor force with a CEO is absurd.