Save Social Security by Rasing the Minimum Wage

[Trigg]

Hi, Let me start with how social security would have prevented the stock market crash, It wouldn't but It would have helped lessen it. After the crash it was programs like social security and unemployment insurance that helped bring back America. The crash was caused by corporations spending much more money than they had. The only thing like this today it the way Bush is spending like a drunken sailer. this time it may be the US Government that crashes!

After the crash it was WWII that helped bring America back!!

The crash was worse because people were getting loans to buy stock in the hopes they would make enough money to pay back the loan and have some left over.

 

[dilloduck]

Maybe if Unions didnt take so much out of an employees paycheck and instead allow them spend it on something other than electing democrats they could afford to have babies. (you're pro-choice for life spiel is really a lulu)

 

[archangel]

After the crash it was WWII that helped bring America back!!

The crash was worse because people were getting loans to buy stock in the hopes they would make enough money to pay back the loan and have some left over.

the crash re:1929 was 11 years prior to WWII...although WWII did help emensly...what helped prior to the war...SSA ring a bell...just food for thought...and Thanks for the earlier "hug" on another thread "hugs" are good!

 

[KarlMarx]

Hi, Let me start with how social security would have prevented the stock market crash, It wouldn't but It would have helped lessen it. After the crash it was programs like social security and unemployment insurance that helped bring back America. The crash was caused by corporations spending much more money than they had. The only thing like this today it the way Bush is spending like a drunken sailer. this time it may be the US Government that crashes!

GEC ... you oughta do Vegas... you have me laughing so hard, I'm crying!!!!!
First, the reason for the stock market crash of 1929 was due to a contraction of the money supply due to the Fed raising interest rates too high and too quickly.

Social Security and unemployment insurance, nor any New Deal program helped to bring America back from the Depression. Just the opposite, the New Deal prolonged and exacerbated the Great Depression. The New Deal grew the size of government, tripled the amount of taxation, drove businesses out of business and helped to crowd out capital needed by the private sector due to increased government borrowing on the capital markets.

In fact, Hitler, Hirohito and Mussolini were the cause of the end of the Great Depression not FDR. Oh, and Social Security did not start paying out until 1942.... AFTER the Great Depression ended....

But, I'm with you on the out of control government spending... that is a problem. Most of the out of control government spending is guess what????? Social Security and Medicare!!!!!!! And it's bound to get worse as us baby boomers retire!!!!!!

Hey!!!! How about that minimum wage, huh????? No economist that is worth his or her salt (meaning, any economist that isn't Paul Krugman) believes the minimum wage does any good. Raising wages, causes prices to go up, which means the minimum wage means less over time, which means that the minimum wage must be raised again.... in fact, the minimum wage has been raised almost as many times as the price of postage.

Where did that pesky minimum wage come from? Well, it all had to do with FDR, see. Back in the 1930s, the labor force in the South was working for cheaper wages than the labor force in the North. Why? Because many of the workers in the South were blacks with no skills. This was especially true in the textile industry. In fact, the textile mills of the Northeast could not compete with the textile mills of the South because of this. So, the textile mill owners of the Northeast had to come up with something, before they were forced out of business.... so they came up with the concept of "a living wage". They lobbied FDR's administration for an imposition of the minimum wage. A wage, which the textile mills in the Northeast were already paying their workers. Many Southerners and, the NAACP, opposed the minimum wage, because they were afraid (quite rightly) that many Southerners and Blacks would lose their jobs..... well, FDR didn't listen, Congress didn't listen and we got the minimum wage. Thus, textile mills in the South were forced to choose between paying higher wages to their workers or replacing them with machines. And as a result, many textile mills in the South, in order to remain competitive, replaced workers with automated machinery. The segment of the South's population that was hit the hardest? Do you need to ask? Blacks, of course!

Mom4: The poor and working class pay a MUCH Higher percentage toward Social Security than the Rich. A person making minimum wage pays more Social security taxes than a person making millions on the stock market who pays nothing.

Very true, mom4.... the Social Security tax, is and always has been a regressive tax. That's because Social Security is capped at certain income (I believe that it's $90,000). Which means, that any income that a person makes over $90,000 a year is free from Social Security tax... oh yes, it is a tax!!!! A tax which you are taxed upon! I have to wonder on the constitutionality of a tax which is levied on the population for the benefit for only a segment of the population. Can you imagine if we taxed black people so that white people can live better????

Speaking of which... Social Security, in effect, does just that. Because, blacks, have a lower life expectancy than whites and, on average, make less than whites are more likely to pay more into the system than they get out of it. So in effect Social Security actually forces poor blacks into subsidizing rich whites in their retirement!!!!

I joined this group thinking this was a Pro American group; however, all I am hearing is Let the Corporations (most partly and many completely owned by foreign countries) pay the American Workers Slave Wages. Why should French, German, Japan and Chinese Corporations be allowed to come to America and not have to pay AMERICANS a living wage. As a Senator from Pennsylvania, I would see to it that Americans come First, Rick Santorum doesn't!
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

It is a pro-America group, but, at the same time, it is a pro-reality group. Just because you want something to be a certain way, doesn't make it so. Good intentions aren't good enough. If you choose to ignore facts and history, be our guest, that will just prove your assertions wrong in the long term.

BTW.... Americans do not get paid "slave wages" because slaves don't get paid. Nitpicking aside, we are in fact one of the highest paid people on the planet, which is why labor is going overseas. Many foreign corporations, e.g. Sony, Ericsson, SAP, Daimler-Chrysler have American shareholders (in fact, I believe that if you have a 401k plan or invest in mutual funds, you may be one of them... in fact, most people are)... the idea of "foreign owned" and "American owned" has no meaning since foreigners are free to buy shares in American companies and Americans are free to buy shares in foreign companies... In a sense, that's good, we need all the capital we can get!

 

[archangel]

GEC ... you oughta do Vegas... you have me laughing so hard, I'm crying!!!!!
First, the reason for the stock market crash of 1929 was due to a contraction of the money supply due to the Fed raising interest rates too high and too quickly.

Social Security and unemployment insurance, nor any New Deal program helped to bring America back from the Depression. Just the opposite, the New Deal prolonged and exacerbated the Great Depression. The New Deal grew the size of government, tripled the amount of taxation, drove businesses out of business and helped to crowd out capital needed by the private sector due to increased government borrowing on the capital markets.

In fact, Hitler, Hirohito and Mussolini were the cause of the end of the Great Depression not FDR. Oh, and Social Security did not start paying out until 1942.... AFTER the Great Depression ended....

But, I'm with you on the out of control government spending... that is a problem. Most of the out of control government spending is guess what????? Social Security and Medicare!!!!!!! And it's bound to get worse as us baby boomers retire!!!!!!

Hey!!!! How about that minimum wage, huh????? No economist that is worth his or her salt (meaning, any economist that isn't Paul Krugman) believes the minimum wage does any good. Raising wages, causes prices to go up, which means the minimum wage means less over time, which means that the minimum wage must be raised again.... in fact, the minimum wage has been raised almost as many times as the price of postage.

Where did that pesky minimum wage come from? Well, it all had to do with FDR, see. Back in the 1930s, the labor force in the South was working for cheaper wages than the labor force in the North. Why? Because many of the workers in the South were blacks with no skills. This was especially true in the textile industry. In fact, the textile mills of the Northeast could not compete with the textile mills of the South because of this. So, the textile mill owners of the Northeast had to come up with something, before they were forced out of business.... so they came up with the concept of "a living wage". They lobbied FDR's administration for an imposition of the minimum wage. A wage, which the textile mills in the Northeast were already paying their workers. Many Southerners and, the NAACP, opposed the minimum wage, because they were afraid (quite rightly) that many Southerners and Blacks would lose their jobs..... well, FDR didn't listen, Congress didn't listen and we got the minimum wage. Thus, textile mills in the South were forced to choose between paying higher wages to their workers or replacing them with machines. And as a result, many textile mills in the South, in order to remain competitive, replaced workers with automated machinery. The segment of the South's population that was hit the hardest? Do you need to ask? Blacks, of course!


Very true, mom4.... the Social Security tax, is and always has been a regressive tax. That's because Social Security is capped at certain income (I believe that it's $90,000). Which means, that any income that a person makes over $90,000 a year is free from Social Security tax... oh yes, it is a tax!!!! A tax which you are taxed upon! I have to wonder on the constitutionality of a tax which is levied on the population for the benefit for only a segment of the population. Can you imagine if we taxed black people so that white people can live better????

Speaking of which... Social Security, in effect, does just that. Because, blacks, have a lower life expectancy than whites and, on average, make less than whites are more likely to pay more into the system than they get out of it. So in effect Social Security actually forces poor blacks into subsidizing rich whites in their retirement!!!!



It is a pro-America group, but, at the same time, it is a pro-reality group. Just because you want something to be a certain way, doesn't make it so. Good intentions aren't good enough. If you choose to ignore facts and history, be our guest, that will just prove your assertions wrong in the long term.

BTW.... Americans do not get paid "slave wages" because slaves don't get paid. Nitpicking aside, we are in fact one of the highest paid people on the planet, which is why labor is going overseas. Many foreign corporations, e.g. Sony, Ericsson, SAP, Daimler-Chrysler have American shareholders (in fact, I believe that if you have a 401k plan or invest in mutual funds, you may be one of them... in fact, most people are)... the idea of "foreign owned" and "American owned" has no meaning since foreigners are free to buy shares in American companies and Americans are free to buy shares in foreign companies... In a sense, that's good, we need all the capital we can get!

I like ya...but ya really need to get a grip...and stop towing the party line...both GOP and DNC for that matter.
As if Cafta and Nafta and insourcing illegal cheap labor dropped the price of Niki's et all...and how about the oldies...Levie Strauss...we still pay a hell of a mark up...even though the labor cost supposedly would eliminate this...eco-101 anyone....or does this just apply to big business? Good lord we are all in a world of proverbial "shit" aren't we...buying into this BS?

 

[G Edward Cook]

I am a Teamster, I support all unions. A worker without a union is a slave to the corporation. You must not know much about unions.

I am a road driver for Yellow. Most drivers make between $55,000 and $90,000 per year, depending on whether we work 4, 5 or 6 days per week. A few drivers top $100,000. We are home between four and seven nights per week and only stay at top hotels when we're away. We also get full benefits and over $100 per month pension at age 65 for each year worked to a maximum of $3,200 per month. We are the top payed drivers in the country and Yellow is doing great. How are you doing?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

 

[KarlMarx]

I am a Teamster, I support all unions. A worker without a union is a slave to the corporation. You must not know much about unions.

I am a road driver for Yellow. Most drivers make between $55,000 and $90,000 per year, depending on whether we work 4, 5 or 6 days per week. A few drivers top $100,000. We are home between four and seven nights per week and only stay at top hotels when we're away. We also get full benefits and over $100 per month pension at age 65 for each year worked to a maximum of $3,200 per month. We are the top payed drivers in the country and Yellow is doing great. How are you doing?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

Most private sector jobs in this country are non-union. About 8% of private sector jobs are unionized... government and teaching jobs are exactly the opposite....

If you wonder about the high cost of government and the state of our public school systems, you can blame part of it on unions.

I could also blame the UAW for much of Detroit's problems and for the RR Unions the decline of the railroads' fortunes

Sorry guy... many unions, especially the Teamsters are corrupt. Not only the Teamsters, but the Laborers Unions and the Teachers' Unions.... I don't think I have to remind you that the Teamsters, starting with Jimmy Hoffa and his buddies have been under investigation by almost every administration since JFK's

you ought to read "Betrayal" by Linda Chavez... it's quite eye opening....

 

[dilloduck]

I am a Teamster, I support all unions. A worker without a union is a slave to the corporation. You must not know much about unions.

I am a road driver for Yellow. Most drivers make between $55,000 and $90,000 per year, depending on whether we work 4, 5 or 6 days per week. A few drivers top $100,000. We are home between four and seven nights per week and only stay at top hotels when we're away. We also get full benefits and over $100 per month pension at age 65 for each year worked to a maximum of $3,200 per month. We are the top payed drivers in the country and Yellow is doing great. How are you doing?
Sincerely,
G Edward Cook

Ain't things great with GW being president ?

 

[archangel]

Most private sector jobs in this country are non-union. About 8% of private sector jobs are unionized... government and teaching jobs are exactly the opposite....

If you wonder about the high cost of government and the state of our public school systems, you can blame part of it on unions.

I could also blame the UAW for much of Detroit's problems and for the RR Unions the decline of the railroads' fortunes

Sorry guy... many unions, especially the Teamsters are corrupt. Not only the Teamsters, but the Laborers Unions and the Teachers' Unions.... I don't think I have to remind you that the Teamsters, starting with Jimmy Hoffa and his buddies have been under investigation by almost every administration since JFK's


I for one had a really nice career with the Department of Treasury and was also a member and shop steward for NTEU...even in a exempt postion in law enforcement..are you saying I as well as almost all those I worked with were corrupt? Like I said generalizations do tend to get one in deep trouble!

 

[KarlMarx]

I like ya...but ya really need to get a grip...and stop towing the party line...both GOP and DNC for that matter.
As if Cafta and Nafta and insourcing illegal cheap labor dropped the price of Niki's et all...and how about the oldies...Levie Strauss...we still pay a hell of a mark up...even though the labor cost supposedly would eliminate this...eco-101 anyone....or does this just apply to big business? Good lord we are all in a world of proverbial "shit" aren't we...buying into this BS?

First, I'm not in favor of using illegal immigrants as labor in this country. The argument that "guest workers" will do the jobs that Americans won't does not stand up to any type of scrutiny.

Second, CAFTA and NAFTA may be necessities. Any type of protectionism, e.g. Smoot-Hawley tarriffs of the late 1920s and Dubya protective tarriffs on imported steel almost always fail and acheive exactly what they set out to prevent... i.e. the loss of jobs.

Like it or not, we live in a global economy... that's just the way it is... no country that closes its borders to trade does well.. the best example of which is North Korea the so called "Hermit Kingdom"

 

[MtnBiker]

Ok Edward, I see that you may be running for office. You will certianly encounter many opposing views while campaigning. This may be a good place for you to preview some of those views. (btw, just because they are opposing view does not make them unamerican). So I will respond to some of your statements and ask you some questions.

I feel the minimum wage of $5.15 per hour is immoral.

I have estimated the extra money collected by all the people working for minimum wage and the extra earned by those earning less than $8.00 per hour over the next 40 years along with a very modest interest would equal trillions of dollars.

Is the $5.15 wage immoral for young unskilled workers entering the market place that are not supporting a family?

What is the percentage of total adult workers that may be supporting a family according the Bureau of Labor Statistics? That would be an important number to know to estimate tax money collection.

 

[archangel]

First, I'm not in favor of using illegal immigrants as labor in this country. The argument that "guest workers" will do the jobs that Americans won't does not stand up to any type of scrutiny.

Second, CAFTA and NAFTA may be necessities. Any type of protectionism, e.g. Smoot-Hawley tarriffs of the late 1920s and Dubya protective tarriffs on imported steel almost always fail and acheive exactly what they set out to prevent... i.e. the loss of jobs.

Like it or not, we live in a global economy... that's just the way it is... no country that closes its borders to trade does well.. the best example of which is North Korea the so called "Hermit Kingdom"

Gimmee a break ol wise one...for your info we fought N/Korea back about 1951-1953 and they were supported by "CHINA" and "RUSSIA" and now you are saying it is okay to support "China in fair trade agreements...kinda like sending our excess trash steele to Japan pre WWII and look what that got us!
USS Arizona sinking in Pearl Harbor for starts...wake up..smell the coffee!

 

[Mr. P]

Hi, Let me start with how social security would have prevented the stock market crash, It wouldn't but It would have helped lessen it. After the crash it was programs like social security and unemployment insurance that helped bring back America. The crash was caused by corporations spending much more money than they had. The only thing like this today it the way Bush is spending like a drunken sailer. this time it may be the US Government that crashes!
Actually, the main cause of the crash was do to the Fed raising interest rates.
Do some research man.

.....



Mr. P: Did you flunk math in school? A fast food restaurant with 5 employees paying $6 per hour and raising the pay to $8 per hour would have to pay an extra $10 per hour. A restaurant with 5 employees must sell 50 meals per hour just to stay opened. Each meal costs about $5. To make up for the $10 per hour the owner has to pay, he must raise the price of each meal 20 cents. (.20 X 50 = $10) The Big Mac is only half the meal so it will only go up ten cents. Thats right, the price for a Big Mac would go from $2.39 to $2.49 not $10.
WTF are you talking about? I didn't post anything about a Big Mac...Man, lack of history knowledge, poor reading skills, are you really running for office? Gawd, just when we think it couldn't get worse!


G Edward Cook

.

 

[G Edward Cook]

So dilloduck,
I take it you liked my Pro Choice for Life!!!! Try googling it, I did today and was surprised. I think you will love that! Try googling "G Edward Cook" try Googling dilloduck!

 

[KarlMarx]

Most private sector jobs in this country are non-union. About 8% of private sector jobs are unionized... government and teaching jobs are exactly the opposite....

If you wonder about the high cost of government and the state of our public school systems, you can blame part of it on unions.

I could also blame the UAW for much of Detroit's problems and for the RR Unions the decline of the railroads' fortunes

Sorry guy... many unions, especially the Teamsters are corrupt. Not only the Teamsters, but the Laborers Unions and the Teachers' Unions.... I don't think I have to remind you that the Teamsters, starting with Jimmy Hoffa and his buddies have been under investigation by almost every administration since JFK's


I for one had a really nice career with the Department of Treasury and was also a member and shop steward for NTEU...even in a exempt postion in law enforcement..are you saying I as well as almost all those I worked with were corrupt? Like I said generalizations do tend to get one in deep trouble!

Certainly not...I wasn't referring to the membership but many unions have been run by corrupt leadership... the NEA, AFT, the Teamsters, the Laborers to name some have had a history of corruption.

http://www.nilrr.org/corruption.htm

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/UCU4/06_03_03.htm

Many states have enforced unionism, where in order for a person to hold a job, they are required to join a union. Many times, unions contribute to the campaigns of politicians over and above allowable limits per the IRS code and do not pay any taxes on the dues that they collect.

Many union members would opt out of unions if they were given the choice.

Again, I am not saying that all unions are corrupt... but many are. And I certainly am not saying that all union members are corrupt, although a minority are.

The leadeship of many unions do not look out for the interests of their members, but for the interests of their leadership.

Sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it is. It may not be the case in union you belonged to, but my father was a member of LIUNA (Laborer's International Union of North America). The head of his local was sent to prison for fraud and racketeering. To deny that union corruption does not exist is simply delusional.

 

[KarlMarx]

Gimmee a break ol wise one...for your info we fought N/Korea back about 1951-1953 and they were supported by "CHINA" and "RUSSIA" and now you are saying it is okay to support "China in fair trade agreements...kinda like sending our excess trash steele to Japan pre WWII and look what that got us!
USS Arizona sinking in Pearl Harbor for starts...wake up..smell the coffee!

I am saying that is the way it is right now...

No, if you remember, I am one this board's of China's biggest critics. However, we still have to keep our borders open to trade (that does not mean allowing illegal immigrants to cross our borders).

The Smoot-Hawley tarriff of the late 1920s is what helped close off trade between America and Europe. As a result of this protectionist legislation, the economy of Europe took a bigger turn for the worse and helped bring about the rise of Adolph Hitler and the Fascists in Italy.

What alarms me even more than sending our manufacturing capacity overseas to China is that our government's biggest creditor is Communist China. I believe that we can eventually move our manufacturing capability back here to the US much more easily than we can repay hundreds of billions of dollars of debt to the PRC.

Should the PRC decide to cash in those treasury bonds or lose faith in the full faith and credit of the US Government, it could trigger a global financial crisis.... and that could lead to war....

cutting government spending in a very real way is not only a conservative ideal, it is quickly becoming a necessity to our national security.

 

[MtnBiker]

So dilloduck,
I take it you liked my Pro Choice for Life!!!! Try googling it, I did today and was surprised. I think you will love that! Try googling "G Edward Cook" try Googling dilloduck!

Try googling Ben Franklin and "Those that trade liberty for security deserve neither". You will find that it is a misquote.

 

[archangel]

Certainly not...I wasn't referring to the membership but many unions have been run by corrupt leadership... the NEA, AFT, the Teamsters, the Laborers to name some have had a history of corruption.

http://www.nilrr.org/corruption.htm

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/UCU4/06_03_03.htm

Many states have enforced unionism, where in order for a person to hold a job, they are required to join a union. Many times, unions contribute to the campaigns of politicians over and above allowable limits per the IRS code and do not pay any taxes on the dues that they collect.

Many union members would opt out of unions if they were given the choice.

Again, I am not saying that all unions are corrupt... but many are. And I certainly am not saying that all union members are corrupt, although a minority are.

The leadeship of many unions do not look out for the interests of their members, but for the interests of their leadership.

Sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it is. It may not be the case in union you belonged to, but my father was a member of LIUNA (Laborer's International Union of North America). The head of his local was sent to prison for fraud and racketeering. To deny that union corruption does not exist is simply delusional.

corruption in Big Business and political elected officials and appointees...is not delusional? Hey dude it goes hand in hand in case you fell asleep at the wheel!

 

[Mr. P]

Sorry Karl, I didn't see your post on interest and the depression before I made mine.
You gave more detail too, I don't have the patience to educate the less fortunate type.

 

[dilloduck]

So dilloduck,
I take it you liked my Pro Choice for Life!!!! Try googling it, I did today and was surprised. I think you will love that! Try googling "G Edward Cook" try Googling dilloduck!

naaaaa since you were attempting to advertise I thought I would just see what kind of dude you really were--I'm almost sorry I did. Your platform is quite bizarre but I'm not going to mess up your attempt to convince us of your economic wisdom. Carry on