Saudi beauty queen

[AllieBaba]

Do the Amish condone honor killings?

I wasn't aware of that.

How many people have the Amish killed?

None? that's what I thought.

Do the Amish prescribe to the belief that all non-Amish should be killed, and to kill non-Amish, or to rape them, doesn't constitute murder or rape?

Nope.

The parallel is foolish.

Not at all.

It's being claimed that Muslim women only dress in that manner because they are forced to; I know of many who chose to do so as an expression of their faith. Amish women choose to dress in the manner they do as an expression of their faith. So do you consider them 'forced' or oppressed?

It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

That's the difference.

 

[Kalam]

It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

That's the difference.

That's an accepted practice in Islam? I don't accept it, nor do any brothers of mine that I know of. The Qur'an doesn't accept it. Not even the ahadith accept it - They prescribe stoning as a punishment for rape. Don't feel as if you should let factual information get in your way, though.

 

[Emma]

Do the Amish condone honor killings?

I wasn't aware of that.

How many people have the Amish killed?

None? that's what I thought.

Do the Amish prescribe to the belief that all non-Amish should be killed, and to kill non-Amish, or to rape them, doesn't constitute murder or rape?

Nope.

The parallel is foolish.

Not at all.

It's being claimed that Muslim women only dress in that manner because they are forced to; I know of many who chose to do so as an expression of their faith. Amish women choose to dress in the manner they do as an expression of their faith. So do you consider them 'forced' or oppressed?

It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

It's not accepted practice among the Muslims I've known either... even those who choose NOT to dress as pictured on this thread.

 

[AllieBaba]

It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

That's the difference.

That's an accepted practice in Islam? I don't accept it, nor do any brothers of mine that I know of. The Qur'an doesn't accept it. Not even the ahadith accept it - They prescribe stoning as a punishment for rape. Don't feel as if you should let factual information get in your way, though.

The Koran does accept it, and whether or not you accept it or not has no bearing upon Islam. It's an accepted practice among Muslims.

 

[Emma]

It isn't an accepted practice among the Amish for groups of Amish men to rape, beat and kill women who don't dress or behave in an orthodox manner.

That's the difference.

That's an accepted practice in Islam? I don't accept it, nor do any brothers of mine that I know of. The Qur'an doesn't accept it. Not even the ahadith accept it - They prescribe stoning as a punishment for rape. Don't feel as if you should let factual information get in your way, though.

The Koran does accept it, and whether or not you accept it or not has no bearing upon Islam. It's an accepted practice among Muslims.

Just curious.

Do you practice Islam? Is that your religion?

 

[AllieBaba]

"Verse 4:34 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; so, Islam is a male dominant religion."
". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly). . ." (4:34)

"Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too."


Does the Quran authorize beating the wives?

 

[AllieBaba]

That's an accepted practice in Islam? I don't accept it, nor do any brothers of mine that I know of. The Qur'an doesn't accept it. Not even the ahadith accept it - They prescribe stoning as a punishment for rape. Don't feel as if you should let factual information get in your way, though.

The Koran does accept it, and whether or not you accept it or not has no bearing upon Islam. It's an accepted practice among Muslims.

Just curious.

Do you practice Islam? Is that your religion?

Feeling the urge to discipline me? Or call on a bunch of thugs to "educate" me?

 

[Kalam]

The Koran does accept it,

Okay. Which surah and ayat should I refer to so that I can see how the Qur'an describes this practice?

It's an accepted practice among Muslims.

You've asked us all?

 

[Emma]

The Koran does accept it, and whether or not you accept it or not has no bearing upon Islam. It's an accepted practice among Muslims.

Just curious.

Do you practice Islam? Is that your religion?

Feeling the urge to discipline me? Or call on a bunch of thugs to "educate" me?

Not at all.

Are you Muslim?

 

[Emma]

One final thought before I really, truly do go to bed.

At my ex-hospital, our Chaplain was fantastic. He was a devout Southern Baptist minister, and was sensitive to the spiritual needs of all the patients he encountered, regardless of their beliefs. I called on him often and he never once refused to help or act as though it was an imposition on him.

He would come in at all hours of the day or night. And it wasn't always for religious reasons, either. One night he spent almost 6 hours counseling an 18 year old girl who's mom had died unexpectedly without any arrangements... the girl was her next-of-kin and there was no one else available; all she had was her 12 year old brother. She was simply overwhelmed, unable to make any decisions regarding her mom's disposition. He stayed with her, helping her work through the process, finally finding an aunt out of state to assist this girl. He wasn't there as a chaplain for her, but as someone to help her through the most horrible time in her young life.

Another time, I had a patient who was actively dying, and I knew she was going to go that night. I called our Chaplain for assistance; the patient and her family were Buddhists, and he came in in the middle of the night and spent hours helping them through the rituals of their faith. He told me later that he'd never had the chance to assist a person of that belief, and thanked me for calling him in and giving him the opportunity to experience that; I was so impressed. He was a witness to all what a true Christian should be.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It's beautiful until you're forced to wear it.

Check out some Muslim clothing websites sometime. Or better yet, Egyptian clothing websites.

Like I said, very beautiful.

Hijab Online | Buy Hijabs and Pins | Bonnets and Scarves

I know of Muslim women who choose to wear hijab, and of many who do not feel "forced". And if it is a part of their religious expression, so what?

hijab

33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
The Noble Quran : Surat 33

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes, we all know that freedom is achieved by hiding people from view.

John Gacy was a big believer in that. So was Jeffrey Dahmer. Those boys were really "free".

And if that doens't work, just have them committed. Or, if the shame of treatment is too much for you, chain them up in a relative's home.

You all are well known for the "freedoms" you grant to people, particularly your wives. I love the freedom allowed to all the school girls butchered in the last few yeas. Though I guess death is the ultimate freedom.

Allah is great.

 

[AllieBaba]

And btw, if you think those of us who are truly free aren't aware of the Koran's directive to lie (hey, it's not a lie if you utter it to infidels) to non-believers to keep them ignorant of the reality of your religion, you're wrong.

 

[Kalam]

"
". . . As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly). . ." (4:34)

"Beating women who are cheating is not an ultimate solution; but "striking them out" from your house is the best solution. And it is fair too."

The operative root being daraba, which is used elsewhere in the Qur'an to mean "travel," "condemn," "strike," "cover," "explain," etc. I see no reason to assume that "beat" is the proper rendering in this verse.

 

[Kalam]

33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
The Noble Quran : Surat 33

Wahhabi nonsense. The actual verse, without false additions from backward heretics:

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.​

Given that wearing a veil is forbidden while in the state of ihram (for hajj), there is no reason to assume that it's required at other times.

 

[Kalam]

And btw, if you think those of us who are truly free aren't aware of the Koran's directive to lie (hey, it's not a lie if you utter it to infidels) to non-believers to keep them ignorant of the reality of your religion, you're wrong.

Which verse of the Qur'an is that? Where am I specifically allowed to lie to infidels?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

33:59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful
The Noble Quran : Surat 33

Wahhabi nonsense. The actual verse, without false additions from backward heretics:

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.​

Given that wearing a veil is forbidden while in the state of ihram (for hajj), there is no reason to assume that it's required at other times.

There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden during Hajj.

Reasons why there may be differences of opinion.

Islam Question and Answer - Our attitude towards the differences of opinion among the imams with regard to covering the face

Islam Question and Answer - Our attitude towards the differences of opinion among the imams with regard to covering the face

 

[Kalam]

There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden during Hajj.

I'm aware of this. Hence "veil" - anything, including a niqab, that covers a woman's face.

Reasons why there may be differences of opinion.

1. Misogynistic radicals like the fools you worship invent justifications for their oppression of women.

Since covering one's face is forbidden while in the state of ihram, there is no logical reason to believe it should be required in a woman's day-to-day life.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I was looking for show clothing to show my Arab in. I got depressed checking out the female garb....I want to dress like a bedouin MAN, which is of course, punishable by death...

AlHannah Islamic Clothing - Muslim Mens Dishdasha, Salwar and More

http://www.hilalplaza.com/mensjalabiya-bisht.aspx

but you may be thinking what is more like Punjabi men's fancy dress/wedding type, much more elaborate:
http://styleindia.tradeindia.com/Exporters_Suppliers/Exporter8504.228030/Sherwani.html

http://www.utsavsarees.com/pages/category.asp?cid=7&type=Wedding

Middle Eastern seems to me to be more austere, and understated.....

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

There is a difference between a hijab and a niqab which is forbidden during Hajj.

I'm aware of this. Hence "veil" - anything, including a niqab, that covers a woman's face.

Reasons why there may be differences of opinion.

1. Misogynistic radicals like the fools you worship invent justifications for their oppression of women.

Since covering one's face is forbidden while in the state of ihram, there is no logical reason to believe it should be required in a woman's day-to-day life.

I would think the reason would be obvious , during the hajj rituals a muslim man would try to undertake a posture of piety righteousness and be focused on remembering allah.
It this state he would unlikely be distracted by the Fitnah of a woman, since intercourse is forbidden .