Saturn moon may have hidden ocean

[Gunny]

By Helen Briggs
Science reporter, BBC News

Saturn's moon Titan may have a deep, hidden ocean, according to data published in the journal Science.

Radar images from the Cassini-Huygens mission reinforce predictions that a reservoir of liquid water exists beneath the thick crust of ice.

If confirmed, it would mean that Titan has two of the key components for life - water and organic molecules.

Currently, three other Solar System objects are suspected of having deep oceans: Ganymede, Callisto and Europa.

more ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7307584.stm

I have to wonder what evidence supports this notion. Radar images reinforce predictions?

Just curious as to where these scientists come up with some of this stuff.

 

[onedomino]

I have to wonder what evidence supports this notion. Radar images reinforce predictions?

Just curious as to where these scientists come up with some of this stuff.

That's a good question. Here's a brief explanation of how radar data is used to infer the existance of a subsurface ocean on Titan:

Ocean May Exist Beneath Titan's Crust, Cassini Spacecraft Finds

complete article: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080320150828.htm

ScienceDaily (Mar. 21, 2008) — NASA's Cassini spacecraft has discovered evidence that points to the existence of an underground ocean of water and ammonia on Saturn's moon Titan. The findings made using radar measurements of Titan's rotation will appear in the March 21 issue of the journal Science.

"With its organic dunes, lakes, channels and mountains, Titan has one of the most varied, active and Earth-like surfaces in the solar system," said Ralph Lorenz, lead author of the paper and Cassini radar scientist at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md., "Now we see changes in the way Titan rotates, giving us a window into Titan's interior beneath the surface."

Members of the mission's science team used Cassini's Synthetic Aperture Radar to collect imaging data during 19 separate passes over Titan between October 2005 and May 2007. The radar can see through Titan's dense, methane-rich atmospheric haze, detailing never-before-seen surface features and establishing their locations on the moon's surface.

Using data from the radar's early observations, the scientists and radar engineers established the locations of 50 unique landmarks on Titan's surface. They then searched for these same lakes, canyons and mountains in the reams of data returned by Cassini in its later flybys of Titan. They found prominent surface features had shifted from their expected positions by up to 19 miles. A systematic displacement of surface features would be difficult to explain unless the moon's icy crust was decoupled from its core by an internal ocean, making it easier for the crust to move.

"We believe that about 62 miles beneath the ice and organic-rich surface is an internal ocean of liquid water mixed with ammonia," said Bryan Stiles of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in, Pasadena, Calif. Stiles also is a contributing author to the paper.

The study of Titan is a major goal of the Cassini-Huygens mission because it may preserve, in deep-freeze, many of the chemical compounds that preceded life on Earth. Titan is the only moon in the solar system that possesses a dense atmosphere. The moon's atmosphere is 1.5 times denser than Earth's. Titan is the largest of Saturn's moons, bigger than the planet Mercury.

 

[Gunny]

That's a good question. Here's a brief explanation of how radar data is used to infer the existance of a subsurface ocean on Titan:

Okay. That makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Shogun]

paging Arthur C Clark. Mr. Clark you've got a frozen ocean below the surface of a moon. Maybe not Europa but...

 

[onedomino]

paging Arthur C Clark. Mr. Clark you've got a frozen ocean below the surface of a moon. Maybe not Europa but...

Probably also Jupiter's Europa and Ganymede. Perhaps more.

 

[Shogun]

are you a fan of the 2001 books? It wold blow my mind if we find out someday that Clark was right about more than comsats.

 

[onedomino]

are you a fan of the 2001 books? It wold blow my mind if we find out someday that Clark was right about more than comsats.

Dr. Haywood Floyd: "What? What's going to happen?"

Dave Bowman: "Something wonderful."

Some of the solar system's moons, at certain subsurface depths, are apparently a soup of water and organic chemicals. We know from studying black smokers, the undersides of glaciers, and elsewhere, that organisms do not necessarily need sun light to thrive. Who knows? Perhaps on moons with oceans, and at sufficient depth where it is warmer, life might have developed. It's going to be fun and exciting to find out. Maybe there is "something wonderful" on those moons.

 

[Gunny]

are you a fan of the 2001 books? It wold blow my mind if we find out someday that Clark was right about more than comsats.

I just want to build a bar there I can let customers smoke in.

 

[AllieBaba]

I have to wonder what evidence supports this notion. Radar images reinforce predictions?

Just curious as to where these scientists come up with some of this stuff.

They think it up when they're under the influence of medicinal mescaline. Then they laugh at people who theorize and believe that God exists.

 

[onedomino]

I just want to build a bar there I can let customers smoke in.

http://1001resources.com/hosting/users/cinesecrets/images/SW/SWCantina6"+.jpg

 

[Gunny]

They think it up when they're under the influence of medicinal mescaline. Then they laugh at people who theorize and believe that God exists.

I disagree. I don't discard my religion for the science-only crowd; neither will I discard science for the religion-only crowd.

Evidence is different than theory. The fact that the planets in the universe exist and as technology advances we learn more about them in no way tests my religious faith.

It is only those who misuse science to try and refute my religion that I take exception to.

But don't be the exact same thing they are on the other side of the coin.

 

[Shogun]

We made of Gravity and heliocentrism too. she's still sore about that one.

 

[Gunny]

We made of Gravity and heliocentrism too. she's still sore about that one.

I suppose you could translate and/or expand on this statement?

 

[Shogun]

I suppose you could translate and/or expand on this statement?

I could... but I'm sure you can predict where it would take this thread.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fUeoem1gR3s&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fUeoem1gR3s&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

 

[onedomino]

Spectacular view of Titan in orbit around Saturn, snapped from the JPL Cassini Orbiter:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080324.html

The surface of Titan:

This color view from Titan gazes across a suddenly familiar but distant landscape on Saturn's largest moon. The scene was recorded by ESA's Huygens probe after a 2 1/2 hour descent through a thick atmosphere of nitrogen laced with methane. Bathed in an eerie orange light at ground level, rocks strewn about the scene could well be composed of water and hydrocarbons frozen solid at an inhospitable temperature of - 179 degrees C.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050117.html

 

[onedomino]

are you a fan of the 2001 books? It wold blow my mind if we find out someday that Clark was right about more than comsats.

At the age of 90, Arthur C. Clark died two Wednesdays ago, 19 March 2008, in his adopted home of Sri Lanka. He was probably best known for his collaboration with Stanley Kubrick on the film 2001: A Space Odyssey. He famously predicted the extensive use of satellites and was derided in the 1940s for predicting that humans would walk on the Moon before 2000. He wrote more than 100 books.