Satan and the Insanity of Sin

[MaxGrit]

Sin is insanity of the highest order. It makes the finite creature believe he can rebel against the creature's infinite Creator, I AM, the eternal God.

Satan was known by another name, Day Star, before he went insane from sin; afterwards he is known as Slanderer (Satan).

The bible uses stars to represent angels. Below is a brief metaphorical depiction, in Isaiah, of the angel known as Day Star, also known as Satan (Slanderer):

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people."

(ESV)
_______________________
Satan fall from heaven.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!"

The cause of Satan's fall is sin.

"You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;"

Satan said in his heart that he will ascend to the highest position in heaven, above all other angels, setting his throne besides God's throne.

"I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;"

This part means Satan said in his heart he will rule the saints.

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

Again, Satan said in his heart he will make himself like the Most High, the eternal God. Satan desired to rule and make himself like the Most High, the eternal God.

John 1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." (ESV)

Satan wanted to rule instead of Jesus Christ, the Word, God the Son. Satan chief sin is his pride in himself, his own beauty, power, and abilities. Satan chief sin is pride in himself, even though Satan was created by the eternal God through the Word, Jesus Christ, God the Son.

The lesson we need to learn from Satan's fall is that we should take pride in God alone and not our self. We should have pride that God is our creator in the Word. God gives us our life, all the good we have, and all the good we do.

 

[Moonglow]

If God created Satan then surely he can destroy Satan, why has God allowed Satan to exist when he knows the damage that he can do?

 

[deltex1]

Don't worry about Satan. Worry about your own constant failures to your family, job, community and country. All those little things that make you a slob. Try self discipline, self denial, maturity, courage, faith, morals and humility...and effort.

Whew...I need a drink.

 

[Moonglow]

Don't worry about Satan. Worry about your own constant failures to your family, job, community and country. All those little things that make you a slob. Try self discipline, self denial, maturity, courage, faith, morals and humility...and effort.

Whew...I need a drink.

Which guys do the water to Tequila trick??

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear @MaxGrit:
I believe Dr. King said it best when he described how man's FEAR caused SEPARATION
and that caused the chain of downfall of relations, where we cannot communicate with each other.

If you can understand how BIAS causes SEPARATION,
then you can understand how the "Devil divides and conquers us"

Fear, selfishness, scarcity mentality, unforgiveness,
denial and projection.

Anything that undermines "perfect harmony and understanding in relationships"
is what Satan represents. You can blame ego, selfishness, greed for control, and talk about the same problems
that are all interrelated as causing the downfall of humanity and killing human relations and society.

The answer is forgiveness and love, unconditionally including others equally as ourselves,
which is easier said than done. Thus we all fall short and require forgiveness and divine help to overcome!

Sin is insanity of the highest order. It makes the finite creature believe he can rebel against the creature's infinite Creator, I AM, the eternal God.

Satan was known by another name, Day Star, before he went insane from sin; afterwards he is known as Slanderer (Satan).

The bible uses stars to represent angels. Below is a brief metaphorical depiction, in Isaiah, of the angel known as Day Star, also known as Satan (Slanderer):

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.
Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the pit,
like a dead body trampled underfoot.
You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people."

(ESV)
_______________________
Satan fall from heaven.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!"

The cause of Satan's fall is sin.

"You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;"

Satan said in his heart that he will ascend to the highest position in heaven, above all other angels, setting his throne besides God's throne.

"I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;"

This part means Satan said in his heart he will rule the saints.

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

Again, Satan said in his heart he will make himself like the Most High, the eternal God. Satan desired to rule and make himself like the Most High, the eternal God.

John 1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." (ESV)

Satan wanted to rule instead of Jesus Christ, the Word, God the Son. Satan chief sin is his pride in himself, his own beauty, power, and abilities. Satan chief sin is pride in himself, even though Satan was created by the eternal God through the Word, Jesus Christ, God the Son.

The lesson we need to learn from Satan's fall is that we should take pride in God alone and not our self. We should have pride that God is our creator in the Word. God gives us our life, all the good we have, and all the good we do.

 

[deltex1]

Don't worry about Satan. Worry about your own constant failures to your family, job, community and country. All those little things that make you a slob. Try self discipline, self denial, maturity, courage, faith, morals and humility...and effort.

Whew...I need a drink.

Maybe if ma belle was here I could get a thumbs up.....

 

[Vigilante]

Dear @MaxGrit:
I believe Dr. King said it best when he described how man's FEAR caused SEPARATION
and that caused the chain of downfall of relations, where we cannot communicate with each other.

 

[hotpotato]

Blame Satan!
Pass the buck, where you cannot blame the evil one, say it is gods' will. Typical of human beings avoiding the responsibilities of their actions.
Him down below made me do it? Cop out!

 

[emilynghiem]

If God created Satan then surely he can destroy Satan, why has God allowed Satan to exist when he knows the damage that he can do?

Hi @Moonglow
If a math teacher can correct all your math mistakes for you,
would you rather get all the right answers that way? Or learn
to correct and prevent errors so you get the right answers yourself?

Same with health. We can do unhealthy imbalanced things,
ruin our health, and then magically use science to erase the effects.
or we can learn how NOT to do the damage in the first place.

When we feel pain, that is our body telling us "something is wrong."
If we didn't feel it, we might continue harming our bodies and health, since it has no effect either way!

So the Laws of Nature produce the consequence of either
healthful or unhealthy decisions. So we can learn by conscience, free will and reason.
By experience, trial and error, and "scientific method". NOT by the laws
of the universe/justice magically correcting all things for us so we never learn the difference!

Do you see that humanity is designed by conscience to learn collectively?
How else can this be done by free will except by comparing
good consequences of good intent/actions
versus bad consequences of bad intent/actions

Don't the laws of karma, cause and effect, have a good purpose so we can learn
what works and what doesn't? and why? How could we learn if everything is magically fixed for us either way?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

At the

If God created Satan then surely he can destroy Satan, why has God allowed Satan to exist when he knows the damage that he can do?

At the cross, Moonglow, Satan was stripped of his authority over those who are born again and believing on Jesus Christ. So while he can wreak havoc on the unbeliever and the lukewarm Christian he has no authority at all over the life of a born again Believer obeying Christ. Now let us suppose that there is only a small remnant in a church - a few people who have stayed pure before the LORD while everyone else has compromised with sin and is open season for the devils attack. So you have a few people in one church, a few in another, a few having home church and according to their warfare and taking authority over the enemy that is how well the results show up - in the natural realm the authority example would be - consider that the police force in your town is stripped of their authority - they are on suspension for having been involved with illegal activities - or they are sick and in the hospital - they are out of action - you have 5 officers to handle the entire city - and they are doing their best but as the other officers are all off duty and not enforcing "the law" the lawless ones are out running chaos up and down the streets. Did the officers have the authority? Yes.. Did they lose it when they compomised with sin? Yes and no. Samson lost his power when he continued to lay his head in the lap of Delilah ( a type of the world ) then he repented after great suffering in captivity and the anointing of God came upon him to destroy more in his death than he did in his life........... So.... Yes, they can lose it unbeknownst to most of them and until they repent - and line up with the Word of God - they are not operating in the full power and authority of the LORD. It is just like that. Best I can explain it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Blame Satan!
Pass the buck, where you cannot blame the evil one, say it is gods' will. Typical of human beings avoiding the responsibilities of their actions.
Him down below made me do it? Cop out!

The point is to be consistent.
If you blame nobody more than anyone else, but see that everyone is ignorant or weak in some areas,
that we all have "biases" and "nobody is perfect in judgment" then this is a GOOD thing to treat everyone equally.
Whatever we can "forgive" in ourselves and each other, we can address and correctly openly.
Nothing wrong with that approach!

The problem I see is blaming one person or group while excusing another.
Denying responsibility that is shared, and projecting blame onto another person or group for convenience.

Even if you don't believe in God or Satan, or blaming either one,
if you pick one group to blame things on while not seeing when you or your group does the same thing,
then that causes endless nitpicking back and forth, destroys the relations and prevents corrections.

So that is the problem, no matter what you call it or blame it on.
All people do this, so it is up to all of us to reach out to each other and fix it when it happens.
Or else we all suffer and destroy our best efforts if we continue to discredit and defeat each other this way.

 

[emilynghiem]

At the

If God created Satan then surely he can destroy Satan, why has God allowed Satan to exist when he knows the damage that he can do?

At the cross, Moonglow, Satan was stripped of his authority over those who are born again and believing on Jesus Christ. So while he can wreak havoc on the unbeliever and the lukewarm Christian he has no authority at all over the life of a born again Believer obeying Christ. Now let us suppose that there is only a small remnant in a church - a few people who have stayed pure before the LORD while everyone else has compromised with sin and is open season for the devils attack. So you have a few people in one church, a few in another, a few having home church and according to their warfare and taking authority over the enemy that is how well the results show up - in the natural realm the authority example would be - consider that the police force in your town is stripped of their authority - they are on suspension for having been involved with illegal activities - or they are sick and in the hospital - they are out of action - you have 5 officers to handle the entire city - and they are doing their best but as the other officers are all off duty and not enforcing "the law" the lawless ones are out running chaos up and down the streets. Did the officers have the authority? Yes.. Did they lose it when they compomised with sin? Yes and no. Samson lost his power when he continued to lay his head in the lap of Delilah ( a type of the world ) then he repented after great suffering in captivity and the anointing of God came upon him to destroy more in his death than he did in his life........... So.... Yes, they can lose it unbeknownst to most of them and until they repent - and line up with the Word of God - they are not operating in the full power and authority of the LORD. It is just like that. Best I can explain it.

Thanks @Jeremiah this is a good illustrative parable to make the point!

@Moonglow if you do not understand, think of Jesus as the Authority of Justice.
When people like officers take an oath to enforce the Law, they take on the responsibility for Justice.

If such officers become corrupted, or abuse their authority, they cannot invoke or enforce Justice.
Nobody obeys the authority of someone who is proven to be false and unjust.
So they lose their ability to enforce the law.

So the reason we make the commitment to be true to the laws of Justice,
to take on these laws by Conscience and agree to enforce and live by them,
this invokes the Authority of Justice in our own lives, relations and society around us.

The more consistently we live by Justice, then we enforce these higher standards.

You ask how can it be that God would allow Satan or falsehood to undermine true Justice?

If you look at each case of Injustice, somebody did not forgive a past conflict and repeated the abuse,
projected that issue and caused a problem for someone else, whether corruption abuse rape robbery etc.

So that is why we look at the ROOT CAUSE of what instigated the situation to go wrong.
That is why Christians focus on the SPIRITUAL cause of conflicts or weakness WITHIN each person.

When we do that, we eliminate the weaknesses or "sin" within each person
so we make fewer misjudgments or wrongs, and we correct or prevent more and more errors.

By trial and error, we learn to clean out the causes of what makes thing go wrong in ourselves and society.

@Moonglow we learn this by consequences, so sometimes if we ignore things going wrong,
then we suffer the hard way when they blow up in our faces to make us take notice and try to correct the cause.

As in Jeremiah's example, if all the community unites in the spirit of Justice, and committing to correct and prevent wrongs, then we can be stronger and less at risk of falling victim to weaknesses and problems.

 

[hotpotato]

"Even if you don't believe in God or Satan, or blaming either one,
if you pick one group to blame things on while not seeing when you or your group does the same thing,"

Isn't that what I said? Passing the buck when an individual or group of individuals are to blame? If people would realise that there is no hidden super beings directing their every move perhaps we could all move forward.
Blame it on satan, blame it on the moon, blame in on the sun, what about blaming it on the boogie?

 

[emilynghiem]

"Even if you don't believe in God or Satan, or blaming either one,
if you pick one group to blame things on while not seeing when you or your group does the same thing,"

Isn't that what I said? Passing the buck when an individual or group of individuals are to blame? If people would realise that there is no hidden super beings directing their every move perhaps we could all move forward.
Blame it on satan, blame it on the moon, blame in on the sun, what about blaming it on the boogie?

Whatever you blame the problem on, just make sure you can forgive it.
The problem comes from not forgiving, and this just causes the projection to be passed elsewhere.

I think you and I are saying close enough to the same thing. Good enough for me!

 

[hotpotato]

Whatever you blame the problem on, just make sure you can forgive it.
The problem comes from not forgiving, and this just causes the projection to be passed elsewhere.

I think you and I are saying close enough to the same thing. Good enough for me!

Yup, all down to the individual. Nobody to blame for your actions but yourself.. equally it is up to you to do any forgiving! Third parties are usually only there for their own benefit!

 

[MaxGrit]

If God created Satan then surely he can destroy Satan, why has God allowed Satan to exist when he knows the damage that he can do?

Good question. The answer lies in Romans 9.

"in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory . . ."

 

[emilynghiem]

Whatever you blame the problem on, just make sure you can forgive it.
The problem comes from not forgiving, and this just causes the projection to be passed elsewhere.

I think you and I are saying close enough to the same thing. Good enough for me!

Yup, all down to the individual. Nobody to blame for your actions but yourself.. equally it is up to you to do any forgiving! Third parties are usually only there for their own benefit!

Hi @hotpotato
Whether you blame yourself, other people or groups
the difference in effectiveness and sound judgment is whether
you "forgive and correct" or "deny and project."

Many people who blame themselves, can't forgive and still end up projecting anger blame and punishment
on others. When this is done collectively, it causes widespread bully, abuse and war. Just because you
blame yourself doesn't mean it doesn't cause problems if you don't forgive and hold on to anger or fear!

Many people who do blame Satan as representing a spiritual weakness in man that can be manipulated this way, ARE forgiving, and ARE able to work with others equally as themselves to TAKE responsibility. It does NOT have to mean "projecting responsibility outside" -- as long as ALL people including oneself are treated equally then responsibility is shared.

The key I have found is
* Forgiveness vs. Unforgiveness
* Love vs. Fear
* Abundance mentality vs. scarcity mentality

Whatever system you use, if you work in the positive side of the spirit
(forgiveness, love and abundance) that system will work out.
If you do not forgive, but live in fear and scarcity, dividing from other people or groups competing to make
one right or wrong, that is what causes the problems, REGARDLESS what system you use.

NOTE: One place I WILL agree with you on: If taken to extremes, this idea of crediting all things as coming from God or Satan CAN get out of hand. I have friends who focus on blessings as coming from God, and forget about material business, that property taxes and other costs DO end up being borrowed or paid by OTHER PEOPLE and do not magically get covered by God. Some of my spiritual friends with ZERO business sense do not understand they can lose property if they don't follow the rules; they pray and believe God will take care of it, and don't understand they are stressing out the volunteers in their nonprofits when things go wrong and they don't think "it's a big deal, because God has them covered." Someone has to do that work, so this is a problem for churches and nonprofits if leaders are not trained to understand the business and govt laws that are not set up in their favor.

 

[MaxGrit]

Noticed the slander against Jesus, from the Slanderer, in the "if". The Slanderer absolutely knew that Jesus is the Son of God.

Matthew 4

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,

“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’

and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,

“‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”

Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

English Standard Version (ESV)

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Good page here explaining what the ESV version is. Nothing controversial, just nice to know why a new version came along, and the methodology of its translation I think.

Preface About ESVBible.org

 

[MaxGrit]