sarkozy says no to burqas...

strollingbones

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Sep 19, 2008
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Sarkozy says burqas have no place in France | International | Reuters


"The issue of the burqa is not a religious issue, it is a question of freedom and of women's dignity," Sarkozy told a joint session of both houses of parliament, held at the Palace of Versailles.

The burqa is not a religious sign, it is a sign of the subjugation, of the submission of women. I want to say solemnly that it will not be welcome on our territory," he said to strong applause.

Referring to a cross-party initiative by close to 60 legislators last week, who proposed a parliamentary commission to look into the spread of the burqa and find ways to combat the trend, Sarkozy said it was the right way to proceed.

"A debate has to take place and all views must be expressed. What better place than parliament for this? I tell you, we must not be ashamed of our values, we must not be afraid of defending them," he said.

The debate about the burqa is reminiscent of a controversy that raged for a decade in France about Muslim girls wearing headscarves in class. Eventually, a law was passed in 2004 banning pupils from wearing conspicuous signs of their religion at state schools.

Critics say the law stigmatized Muslims at a time when the country should be fighting discrimination in the job and housing markets that has caused a rift between mainstream society and many youths from an immigrant background.

(Reporting by Estelle Shirbon)


do you think burkas should be used in the united states? how far are we willing as a culture to have this alien bullshit promoted?
 
I've seen them, not often but they are around. If a woman chooses to wear it, can't see a law against it. On the other hand, if there's evidence of 'force' for the dress, I believe we have domestic laws covering such.
 
they are unsafe...limited vision and that type of thing.....if you can wear a burka...can you go naked..that is personal choice too...i dont want to see women in burkas....i dont mind the modest dress but their eyes covered with veils....no...not safe...driving or walking
 
they are unsafe...limited vision and that type of thing.....if you can wear a burka...can you go naked..that is personal choice too...i dont want to see women in burkas....i dont mind the modest dress but their eyes covered with veils....no...not safe...driving or walking

Questionable for driving, but then most probably choose not to do so. However, where they tried to obtain DL's with them, they were forced to remove for identification purposes.

Sultaana Freeman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I wonder if Sarkozy is going to start banning catholic habits next. Maybe we can force our fundy christians to start wearing pants and makeup too. Clearly, if the women do not want to cut their hair and get tattoos then they must be protected from themselves.
 
ahh i remember that....i just dont care for the cultural influences from this religion or whatever.....honor killings...excuse me...killling ones daughter does not save your honor...i dont care for female circumsions either..the removal of the clitoris and the sewing of the vaginal opening..nope dont care for that at all...should we allow this crap in our society?
 
o dont go all nutzo here shogun....we arent gonna make you wear one...and i do have concerns about the limited vision...and i am all for banning nuns habits...just ask annie
 
To be fair to the head Frog, he didn't say he was going to outlaw them, just study a way to discourage them.

If other people want to look like moving mountains of black sheets that is their business. Just don't expect me to wear one.
 
ahh i remember that....i just dont care for the cultural influences from this religion or whatever.....honor killings...excuse me...killling ones daughter does not save your honor...i dont care for female circumsions either..the removal of the clitoris and the sewing of the vaginal opening..nope dont care for that at all...should we allow this crap in our society?

I don't care for the influence either. With that said, I don't like many things-for me. Others may and have the right to do so. Now, if we wish to pass laws that say women must wear dresses 5 inches above or below knees? Cant' legislate such or we lose the freedoms. As for public nudity, which is illegal mostly in US, that could change, no?
 
o dont go all nutzo here shogun....we arent gonna make you wear one...and i do have concerns about the limited vision...and i am all for banning nuns habits...just ask annie

Should I come to your house and tell you what I THINK you need to wear? It's fucking retarded for little france boy to pretend that burka wearing women DONT WANT TO WEAR THEM. Hell, do you think pentecostals and amish are forced to abide by their subculture? Hell no. The only reason this becomes news is because it's a slight against muslim culture.
 
I have to say that Sarkozy's stand was a bold one, but I'm not too sure I agree with it!

Even though Sarkozy says the burka is a sign of oppression to women, wouldn't banning the burka for woman also be a sort of government oppression limiting one's ability to express their religious beliefs?

If the husbands are abusive, that's one issue. But what a woman wears is quite another in my opinion.
 
I think there's a large misconception that Burqas and their close associates Hijabs are somehow a ancient, Muslim, traditional garb. Not here, thankfully, where everyone seems to know their left foot from their right ear but to be concise - the idea it is nothing more then a modern 'step-backward' could not be more true.

Hijabs have a vague historical context, for Islam, because it was used to some degree or another since the era of the Byzantine Empire by Arab minorities on the frontier areas who later became Muslim so some of those scholars will try to distort the fact that way. However, right off the bat one can clearly notice that it was not widespread, enforced or even state-sponsored. Somewhat like the difference between Reformed, Orthordox, and Hassidic Jews the Hijab somewhat differentiates various puritical strains of Islam (with the very crazy Arabs donning it while most of their other Islamic off shoots ignored). Yet even that statement is contested because it was a garb traditionally worn only by Arab women; Hijabs in the Phillipines, Indonesia and even Central Asia are a fairly new phenomenon. Thank you Wahabism! Indeed, the wearing of the veil is so explicitly Arab - not Islamic - that it was first described by the practice of first Assyrian kings, later Byzantine who had their wives (and nobility) don it while their hookers would not be able to. Not very religious, very much secular and not used beyond the court's walls.

After many years of that, the Arabs came roaring out of the sands of Arabia - ready to plunder and get their grab of the Ancient World's highest class property. Only after burning apart several empires, laying waste to half a dozen centers of enlightenment, laying waste to the grand Byzantine Empire unil it was a shell holding onto the outer coasts of Turkey and the Balkans (cue Crusades) did the Arab nomads adopt the pomp and circumstance of the aforementioned courts. Not before, after. The Qur’an does ask for modesty in clothing, true, but the actual implementation (also, how literally it should be taken) was not fufilled by some Islamic ancient practice but an Middle-Eastern (pagan!) tradition stretching back for basically forever. As for the time frame, it was adopted by the Arabs much later (estimates very from 150-250) after their conquest of Anatolia. Even then it was more of casual court attire, and not until the Middle Ages (500 years+) were there rules for such clothing.

As for the Burqa, the most identifiable part of clothing (which is encompassed by the term Hijab that basically means ‘modest dress’) that one notices is, if anything, more Arabic and modern then the Hijab. Not until the counter-reformation (best typified by the Iranian Revolution in the 70s) did Hijab become to include the Burqa as well. Yes some people may point to a handful of optional, eccentric, adorners of a Burqa-styled dress before the Iranian Revolution but even they will not go as far to say that until very, very, very recently did the Burqa become so synonymous with modest clothing as it is now.

Which is interesting, for all the people out there who casually believe that the Burqa is some sort of history or has ancient underpinnings in Islamic text. It does Not. It’s a clear step backwards for the Arab world, because it is not a old invention that has suddenly gained new power; it is a new invention that has corrupted old power. It’s a new phenomenon that deserves no respect we give for institutions that have survived the winds of time, it is instead; basically speaking, a step backward that Western nations can happily ban, ignore, burn and expel.
 
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"The issue of the burqa is not a religious issue, it is a question of freedom and of women's dignity," Sarkozy told a joint session of both houses of parliament, held at the Palace of Versailles.

If Sarko thinks it's a question of freedom how does he reconcile it with his intentions to limit women's freedom to dress as they wish?
 
Sarko avoids addressing the real issues facing France today by stirring up public support for a mandatory dress code for Muslim women.
 

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