Sarah Palin On Obama: Lies, Damned Lies – Obamacare 6 Months Later; It’s Time to Take

[rightwinger]

Death Panels: Read it and absorb what it means.

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]
...
Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones.... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

I think that the issues you raise are valid ones, and one "role model" for how such issues could be handled for the general population is provided by the Veteran's Administration.

One study of this issues appears in the report
"Physician-assisted suicide v Palliative care: a tale of two cities" which is quoted below:

"In Portland [Oregon], the Veterans Medical Center has a multidisciplinary palliative care team with medical, nursing, psychology ,social work and psychiatric in put. I [the report's author] attended a multidisciplinary team meeting and met highly skilled palliative care specialists. There was a wide ranging discussion around medical, social, psychological and spiritual issues for each patient. This team works with patients in the Veterans Center and has no outpatient or community remit. Indeed families of the veterans are not covered by this Center."

Amazing for what passes as reading comprehension for Right Wingnuts.

Advanced care planning consultation equates to DEATH PANEL. When you are old an infirm, you have decisions to make as to how you want to spend your last days. Some want to fight till the bitter end, others want to die with dignity. The decision is yours.

A DEATH PANEL reviews the quality of your life and decides for you whether you should continue to receive care. Big difference

 

[rightwinger]

Did we ever even bother to find out what 'death panels' meant? Because if we keep on down this road, and we end up with a system like they have in Europe, then, yea, you're gonna have death panels. Of course, they won't be called 'death panels' but, like Europe, you will be turned down for life saving or life extending or quality of life extending drugs and treatment - based on cost. Simple. Support it if you want to but have the courage to know what it is you are supporting.

So........Palin accused Obama of having death panels in the healthcare legislation. Now, YOU are saying that what she really MEANT was that we might be heading down a road toward death panels????

Calm down, take a breath, and relax. There is no need for CAPITALS!

I am not saying what she meant, I was just explaining what happens in Europe... Isn't that what Obama wants? A socialized health system? Well, that's what you're gonna get if you go down that road.

Personally, I don't take a lot of notice of what Palin says.

Fucking moron.

Do you honestly believe that private insurance companies don't do the same thing in deciding which procedures they will authorize?

 

[Stephanie]

So........Palin accused Obama of having death panels in the healthcare legislation. Now, YOU are saying that what she really MEANT was that we might be heading down a road toward death panels????

Calm down, take a breath, and relax. There is no need for CAPITALS!

I am not saying what she meant, I was just explaining what happens in Europe... Isn't that what Obama wants? A socialized health system? Well, that's what you're gonna get if you go down that road.

Personally, I don't take a lot of notice of what Palin says.

Fucking moron.

Do you honestly believe that private insurance companies don't do the same thing in deciding which procedures they will authorize?

well then, because of this, we surly should put this decision in the hands of OUR GUBERMENT MASTERS instead. Along with being THREATHENED with jail or fines IF we don't want it.

 

[geauxtohell]

Blue Cross To Refund $155M To NC Policyholders - News - MyNC.com

And what about those death panels, Sarah?

It sure would be nice if Caribou Barbie could learn to read BEFORE she opens her trap.

Speaking of lies, where are THOSE death panels, Sarah? Too busy lobbying for unelectable candidates?

Did we ever even bother to find out what 'death panels' meant? Because if we keep on down this road, and we end up with a system like they have in Europe, then, yea, you're gonna have death panels. Of course, they won't be called 'death panels' but, like Europe, you will be turned down for life saving or life extending or quality of life extending drugs and treatment - based on cost. Simple. Support it if you want to but have the courage to know what it is you are supporting.

That happens with private insurance too. It's an asinine talking point for this reason: eventually we are all going to die. Some people, unfortunately, have diseases that have such a high mortality rate that, while you can continue to try to treat them, the odds of changing the outcome is so low that it makes no sense to do so and the money you devote to their care is taken away from other conditions that can be treated. To act like money is not a finite resource in any degree of healthcare is absurd.

This issue has always been at the forefront of medical ethics. In the 1960's when dialysis first became widely available and was a limited asset, hospitals had "God Panels" to decide who would get dialysis or not.

Since loss of life is the ultimate destination for all medical care, it's easy to sufficiently scare people by using an absurd term like "Death Panals". It would have been more honest if Palin had some actual figures to show that basic care would be denied to people.

 

[geauxtohell]

Did we ever even bother to find out what 'death panels' meant? Because if we keep on down this road, and we end up with a system like they have in Europe, then, yea, you're gonna have death panels. Of course, they won't be called 'death panels' but, like Europe, you will be turned down for life saving or life extending or quality of life extending drugs and treatment - based on cost. Simple. Support it if you want to but have the courage to know what it is you are supporting.

Classic sky-is-falling domino-theory fallacy.

Anyway, here are the facts on Palin's "death panel" issue:

Health care reform debate in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palin's death panel remarks were based on the ideas of Betsy McCaughey. During 2009, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin wrote against alleged rationing, referring to what by her interpretation was a "downright evil" "death panel" in current reform legislation known as H.R. 3200 Section 1233. However, Palin supported similar end of life discussion and advance directives for patients in 2008. Defenders of the plan indicated that the proposed legislation H.R. 3200 would allow Medicare for the first time to cover patient-doctor consultations about end-of-life planning, including discussions about drawing up a living will or planning hospice treatment. Patients could seek out such advice on their own, but would not be required to. The provision would limit Medicare coverage to one consultation every five years. Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., who sponsored the H.R. 3200 end of life counseling provision, said the measure would block funds for counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option, and called references to death panels or euthanasia "mind-numbing". Republican Senator Johnny Isakson, who co-sponsored a 2007 end-of-life counseling provision, called the euthanasia claim "nuts". Analysts who examined the end-of-life provision Palin cited agree that Palin's claim is incorrect. According to TIME and ABC, Palin and Betsy McCaughey made false euthanasia claims.

The federal requirement that hospitals help patients with things like living wills began when Republican George H. W. Bush was President. Section 1233 merely allows doctors to be paid for their time. However, an NBC poll indicates that as of August, 2009, 45% of Americans believed in the death panel story.

Two years ago I had my second five year "end of life" session with my doctor. it was scary I had to update my living will, and make sure that information on those who were to act on my behalf were in order. We also talked about my attitude toward death. (or life if you like the sound of that better.)

With any luck my third "death panel" will go as well.

Good for your Doctor for addressing that. It is my hope that more GP's will start to engage in this stuff as well. It's part of total patient care. The trend in Medical School is to start pushing for physicians to consider this, so hopefully it will get better.

 

[Stephanie]

Most people who are SANE understood what Palin was talking about when she mentioned death panels. These panels are people from the Guberment who are going to be DECIDED what, who, when and how you will receive YOUR FREE health care.

but don't let that BOTHER you, after all they b only looking out FOR YOU and knows what is best. .lol

 

[rightwinger]

Most people who are SANE understood what Palin was talking about when she mentioned death panels. These panels are people from the Guberment who are going to be DECIDED what, who, when and how you will receive YOUR FREE health care.

but don't let that BOTHER you, after all they b only looking out FOR YOU and knows what is best. .lol

No such panels were ever suggested..

For Palin to imply that end of life counselling was going to somehow kill her baby was either stupidity or an outright lie

 

[Greenbeard]

For Palin to imply that end of life counselling was going to somehow kill her baby was either stupidity or an outright lie

Particularly since it's unlikely an infant would be going in for a Medicare-financed consult on living wills or palliative care.