Santorum on the Constitution and the Declaration

[Avatar4321]

In a question about the Constitution and Ron Paul, Rick Santorum replied with the following:

Ron Paul has a libertarian view of the Constitution. I do not. The Constitution has to be read in the context of another founding document, and that’s the Declaration of Independence. Our country never was a libertarian idea of radical individualism. We have certain values and principles that are embodied in our country. We have God-given rights.

The Constitution is not the “why” of America; it’s the “how” of America. It’s the operator’s manual. It’s the rules we have to play by to ensure something. And what do we ensure? God-given rights. And so to read the Constitution as the end-all, be-all is, in a sense, what happened in France. You see, during the time of our revolution, we had a Declaration of Independence that said, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, [that they are] endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

So we were founded as a country that had God-given rights that the government had to respect. And with those rights come responsibilities, right? God did not just give us rights. He gave us a moral code by which to exercise them.

See, that’s what Ron Paul sort of leaves out. He leaves out rights and responsibilities that we have from God that this Constitution is to protect. And he says, “No, we just have rights, and then that’s it.” No, we don’t. America is a moral enterprise….

My understanding of our founding documents and the purpose of this country is different. I would argue that [Paul’s] understanding of the Constitution was similar to the French Revolution and the French understanding of the Constitution. The French had 21, I think, constitutions, but their constitutions were initially patterned after the American Constitution. Gave radical freedom, like ours does. But their founding document was not the Declaration of Independence. Their founding watchwords were the words, “liberty” and “fraternity.” Fraternity. Brotherhood. But no fatherhood. No God. It was a completely secular revolution. An anti-clerical revolution. And the root of it was, whoever’s in power rules.

I am strongly starting to lead toward Santorum as my nominee choice. He nailed it with this answer.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I am strongly starting to lead toward Santorum as my nominee choice. He nailed it with this answer.

Hokay…

What you quoted was gibberish. Santorum clearly has no idea what he’s talking about.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Santorum's concept of the role of the Declaration of Independence is opinion. The DoI does not have the force of law. It does not have the force of "why", other than a 'blow me' to King George III. The charter of our governance is the secular Constitution. End all, be all.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am strongly starting to lead toward Santorum as my nominee choice. He nailed it with this answer.

Hokay…

What you quoted was gibberish. Santorum clearly has no idea what he’s talking about.

Funny, Gibberish usually doesnt make perfect sense.

 

[Wolfstrike]

even if Santorum was right and too much individualism is wrong, the pendulum has swung so far into the oppression range, that making a speech like that is stupid.

this country is not under any threat of too much individualism, but too much oppression , yes

 

[Lakhota]

Santorum's concept of the role of the Declaration of Independence is opinion. The DoI does not have the force of law. It does not have the force of "why", other than a 'blow me' to King George III. The charter of our governance is the secular Constitution. End all, be all.

I agree!

 

[Avatar4321]

even if Santorum was right and too much individualism is wrong, the pendulum has swung so far into the oppression range, that making a speech like that is stupid.

this country is not under any threat of too much individualism, but too much oppression , yes

It's taken 100 years for the progressives to corrupt this nation as much as they have. It's not going to get fixed overnight by cutting everything at once.

 

[Avatar4321]

Santorum's concept of the role of the Declaration of Independence is opinion. The DoI does not have the force of law. It does not have the force of "why", other than a 'blow me' to King George III. The charter of our governance is the secular Constitution. End all, be all.

I agree!

I suggest you both read the Declaration more closely.

 

[g5000]

But their founding document was not the Declaration of Independence. Their founding watchwords were the words, “liberty” and “fraternity.” Fraternity. Brotherhood. But no fatherhood. No God.

Santorum is a doofus. The French founding document, the Declaration of the Rights of Man, also declared the unalienable rights of man given by God.

The representatives of the French people, organized as a National Assembly, believing that the ignorance, neglect, or contempt of the rights of man are the sole cause of public calamities and of the corruption of governments, have determined to set forth in a solemn declaration the natural, unalienable, and sacred rights of man, in order that this declaration, being constantly before all the members of the Social body, shall remind them continually of their rights and duties; in order that the acts of the legislative power, as well as those of the executive power, may be compared at any moment with the objects and purposes of all political institutions and may thus be more respected, and, lastly, in order that the grievances of the citizens, based hereafter upon simple and incontestable principles, shall tend to the maintenance of the constitution and redound to the happiness of all. Therefore the National Assembly recognizes and proclaims, in the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following rights of man and of the citizen:

1. Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good.

2. The aim of all political association is the preservation of the natural and imprescriptible rights of man. These rights are liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression.

And so forth.

 

[rightwinger]

Santorum is misinterpreting the purpose of the Declaration of Independence. It is not a document to establish that all men are created equal. It is a list of grievances against the British rule and an explanation of why we are leaving

 

[Lakhota]

Santorum's concept of the role of the Declaration of Independence is opinion. The DoI does not have the force of law. It does not have the force of "why", other than a 'blow me' to King George III. The charter of our governance is the secular Constitution. End all, be all.

I agree!

I suggest you both read the Declaration more closely.

Can you point to anything in the Declaration of Independence that governs us and/or has the force of law? It's basically a notice of divorce from the Colonies to an English King.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

 

[Avatar4321]

Santorum is misinterpreting the purpose of the Declaration of Independence. It is not a document to establish that all men are created equal. It is a list of grievances against the British rule and an explanation of why we are leaving

But Jake just said it doesnt explain why.

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree!

I suggest you both read the Declaration more closely.

Can you point to anything in the Declaration of Independence that governs us and/or has the force of law? It's basically a notice of divorce from the Colonies to an English King.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

So you're arguing that we are legally still part of Great Britain?

I dont think that's going to fly.

 

[Mad Scientist]

It's taken 100 years for the progressives to corrupt this nation as much as they have. It's not going to get fixed overnight by cutting everything at once.

If you hadn't cleaned your house in 20 years, do you think it would it take you 20 years to clean it?

No it'd probably take a few weeks or a month, but it wouldn't take 20 years.

Same thing with our gov't. We know what's wrong and what needs to be cut and/or repealed. Discuss it, vote on it and implement it.

 

[g5000]

The more I look at Santorum's response, the more bizarre it looks.

He just pulls France out of his ass out of nowhere as somehow being the same as Ron Paul (what the ever loving FUCK???), swings and misses on the French Revolution's founding document, and then invents a total strawman:

See, that’s what Ron Paul sort of leaves out. He leaves out rights and responsibilities that we have from God that this Constitution is to protect. And he says, “No, we just have rights, and then that’s it.” No, we don’t. America is a moral enterprise….

I have mentioned a few times on this board I am one of the few people who has actually read all of the candidate's issues pages. I have also mentioned I know Libertarians upside down and backwards.

Santorum doesn't. That's why he made that shit up.

Here is a page from Ron Paul's official web site: Second Amendment*|*Ron Paul 2012 Presidential Campaign Committee

With our gun rights under constant attack from our own government and the anti-gun United Nations, as well as the threat of rising crime due to our country’s economic woes, Congressman Paul believes it has never been more important that our President be 100% committed to defending our God-given right to keep and bear arms.

More: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/right-to-work/

Freedom of association is one of the foundations of a free society. The Founders clearly understood this, which is why they sought to protect this God-given right in the First Amendment.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Santorum's concept of the role of the Declaration of Independence is opinion.

Indeed.

Funny, Gibberish usually doesnt make perfect sense.

I suppose it does if neither speaker nor listener know what they’re talking about.

For example:

So we were founded as a country that had God-given rights that the government had to respect. And with those rights come responsibilities, right?

Wrong.

The very nature of inalienable rights is there’s no quid pro quo, no prerequisites, otherwise they wouldn’t be inalienable.

God did not just give us rights. He gave us a moral code by which to exercise them.

According to whom/what? Not the Constitution.

The Constitution is a secular document – making no mention of god or ‘moral codes.’ The Constitution is a legal document, its foundation over a thousand years of Anglo-American jurisprudence.

It’s hard to believe Santorum graduated law school – all this religious fundamentalism has clearly rotted his brain.

It's taken 100 years for the progressives to corrupt this nation as much as they have. It's not going to get fixed overnight by cutting everything at once.

Nonsense.

Progressives have worked long and hard for over 70 years in the courts to rid this great Nation of such evil as segregation, discrimination, and oppression by state and local governments. During that time they’ve brought the Nation closer to the original intent of the Framers.

 

[rightwinger]

Santorum is misinterpreting the purpose of the Declaration of Independence. It is not a document to establish that all men are created equal. It is a list of grievances against the British rule and an explanation of why we are leaving

But Jake just said it doesnt explain why.

Different why

But what the heck......you are trying

 

[Lakhota]

I suggest you both read the Declaration more closely.

Can you point to anything in the Declaration of Independence that governs us and/or has the force of law? It's basically a notice of divorce from the Colonies to an English King.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

So you're arguing that we are legally still part of Great Britain?

I dont think that's going to fly.

After the American Revolution and eight years of war, I don't believe so...

 

[g5000]

The problem Santorum has is one that many people have when a Libertarian speaks. They don't understand Libertarians and how they think and so it goes over their head and they misunderstand what is being said.

It's like someone reading Shakespeare for the first time. A lot of the nuances are lost on them.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Santorum is surprisingly fanatical for a Catholic. I grew up Catholic and I didn't meet many like him.